BiggusBeardus
Minstrel
The title says it all. Comment if you use something else and share what you use.
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Do you say "race" or "species" or something else?
- Thread starter BiggusBeardus
- Start date
Queshire
Istar
I tend to default to race since it's what I grew up with, but I like Pathfinder 2e's use of Ancestry instead.
Aldarion
Archmage
I tend to use "race" because it is a fantasy trope and is thus easy to understand as a shorthand for a "humanoid species". But "race" and "species" have very specific definition in reality:
fantasyview.wordpress.com
That being said, Fomorians (who I am using in my world) can actually have offspring with humans, so using "race" for them is terminologically correct.
Race and species – terminological confusion in fantasy
In fantasy and sci-fi, there is a lot of talk about “races”. In Lord of the Rings, there are humans, elves, dwarves, orcs. In Star Trek, there are humans, Klingons, Andorians, Vulcans. …
fantasyview.wordpress.com
That being said, Fomorians (who I am using in my world) can actually have offspring with humans, so using "race" for them is terminologically correct.
So my notes are filled with the word race, but I've been avoiding it in the narrative. I don't think it's an issue, exactly. But I don't want anything distracting from the narrative, and a few people right now might start thinking about real world race things, and a few others might start thinking "D&D." (On that last note, I wouldn't use class, either.)
pmmg
Myth Weaver
I am not sure if it has come up, but I would use race as its the right word to describe the difference when it should come up. I might use species in a Sci-Fi book, but for my fantasy, race. The race of men, the race of elves and so forth.
If somehow readers have a problem with it, I would not likely cater to the way those things get twisted.
In a world where they are elves and orcs and such, race carries a different connotation than in one with just humans of different complexions. In my world, when people of different complexions become present, I dont think of them as a different race, and would describe them in terms that the POV character would understand. For the MC to notice the complexion is different would be likely, and it would probably be written in terms of complexion or skin tone.
A passage might look like, there were six of the race of orcs and they had in their camp one of her own race, but his complexion was darker than any she had seen before.
If somehow readers have a problem with it, I would not likely cater to the way those things get twisted.
In a world where they are elves and orcs and such, race carries a different connotation than in one with just humans of different complexions. In my world, when people of different complexions become present, I dont think of them as a different race, and would describe them in terms that the POV character would understand. For the MC to notice the complexion is different would be likely, and it would probably be written in terms of complexion or skin tone.
A passage might look like, there were six of the race of orcs and they had in their camp one of her own race, but his complexion was darker than any she had seen before.
Uh... Depends? For us, we tend to try to lean a little more towards modern, real world, common sense usage, which works as we write Urban Fantasy. So, species would be human, race would be white, black, etc. Species would be therian, race/type would be wolf, raven, shark, etc. "Preternatural" is an umbrella term for everything not human, and "type" is often used in place of "species." It's a hodgepodge, like most things.
Gurkhal
Auror
I usually go with species.
Finchbearer
Istar
It does depend on the type of story for me. I don’t write different classic fantasy races for every story, elves, dwarves and so on, and I don’t think I’ve written the word ‘race’ in any of my writing either.
Human race makes sense, but I think I’ve used the terms (said by the characters themselves) ‘mortals’ ‘menkind’ and ‘menfolk’.
For animals that are mythological or magical I’ve used (again said by the characters themselves) ‘beasts’ and ‘creature’.
For some other humanoid beings such as hobgoblins, trolls, dwarves, boggarts, wil-o-the-wisps etc. it again depends on how the other characters identify them, and they might use either the correct terminology or derogatory language depending on the context.
I don’t write SF, so the term species might be used for general earth based flora and fauna.
Human race makes sense, but I think I’ve used the terms (said by the characters themselves) ‘mortals’ ‘menkind’ and ‘menfolk’.
For animals that are mythological or magical I’ve used (again said by the characters themselves) ‘beasts’ and ‘creature’.
For some other humanoid beings such as hobgoblins, trolls, dwarves, boggarts, wil-o-the-wisps etc. it again depends on how the other characters identify them, and they might use either the correct terminology or derogatory language depending on the context.
I don’t write SF, so the term species might be used for general earth based flora and fauna.
Mad Swede
Auror
I don't use either term. After all, when you look at a person do you think of them as a unique person or as a thing? It's like looking at a pet cat, how often do you think of it as an example of felis catus as opposed to an individual cat with a personality of it's own?
Aldarion
Archmage
I don't see why one needs to exclude the other. After all, fact that you are a human is fundamental part of what makes you a person you are. Same for the cat.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
Well, i do think of them as cats. Sometimes call them by their breed, and often by their color. Black, white, and orange would not be an unusual word to put in front of them.
And with people, i might do the same. Specially if i dont know them or for some reason that comes up.
And with people, i might do the same. Specially if i dont know them or for some reason that comes up.
Demesnedenoir
Myth Weaver
I tend to refer to specific cultures and "peoples" instead of race. Species might come, but cultural affiliation is what matters.
Fyri
Inkling
They are split into different territories based on their elemental affinities. Right now, they are all called elementalists, though I'm thinking I need to change that to something more unique...
So, someone living in the Wind Domain would call themselves a wind elementalist, and anyone from the Light Territory or Freelands are called mixed elementalists or, if they are pure, their specific element (lightning, fire, wind, etc).
In each Domain there are different ethnicities, parallel to our real world, since it is literally our real world with magic discovered in BCE time. They are probably considered ethnicies. I wouldn't say races because originally the elements weren't segregated, but then wars broke out and the Domains were created, splitting up and scattering cultures. So, you may have Irish or Nigerian descendants living in regions of the Fire Domain, the Wind Domain and the Freelands. Some people maintained their culture in their new homes, some assimilated to native cultures of the region they moved to or that moved to them, and some maintained their culture and didn't move at all.
But, the elements are more important than the physical, cultural, or language differences or similarities.
So, someone living in the Wind Domain would call themselves a wind elementalist, and anyone from the Light Territory or Freelands are called mixed elementalists or, if they are pure, their specific element (lightning, fire, wind, etc).
In each Domain there are different ethnicities, parallel to our real world, since it is literally our real world with magic discovered in BCE time. They are probably considered ethnicies. I wouldn't say races because originally the elements weren't segregated, but then wars broke out and the Domains were created, splitting up and scattering cultures. So, you may have Irish or Nigerian descendants living in regions of the Fire Domain, the Wind Domain and the Freelands. Some people maintained their culture in their new homes, some assimilated to native cultures of the region they moved to or that moved to them, and some maintained their culture and didn't move at all.
But, the elements are more important than the physical, cultural, or language differences or similarities.
I like the term nation, but that's because I think in terms of the Latin usage. It's quite precise and useful, and it has a modern parallel. For some reason, the old-fashioned practice was to refer to American Indians with that term. The Sioux Nation, the Iroquois Nation, and so on. It's useful because it includes all the various tribes that made up the Sioux, etc.
But in practice it comes out clumsy or obscuring when I write it into a story. It's further muddled by the modern usage that conflates "nation" with "nation-state". I still try to find ways to use it, though, because it's still the best word for the purpose. The elf nation, dwarf nation, orc nation, and so on. Sometimes I'll use "folk" as an alternative.
Species is too thoroughly modern for my pseudo-medieval setting. And the term race is both technically incorrect and too heavily burdened by connotations.
But in practice it comes out clumsy or obscuring when I write it into a story. It's further muddled by the modern usage that conflates "nation" with "nation-state". I still try to find ways to use it, though, because it's still the best word for the purpose. The elf nation, dwarf nation, orc nation, and so on. Sometimes I'll use "folk" as an alternative.
Species is too thoroughly modern for my pseudo-medieval setting. And the term race is both technically incorrect and too heavily burdened by connotations.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
I find I can never settle on nation. When I use it, it feels wrong. I dont think the world view of many is one of nations, or nations states. They are more kingdoms, or wild lands. Some dont even have clear borders. They would far more likely say Orc controlled lands, than an orc nation. I suppose it does kind of mean Orcs are all lumped into together, even if there is great separation between their tribes. But...if you're a human or an elf, I dont think you will get confused as to whether something is an orc or not. Does not matter where in the world you stand.
It does not come up much. But I think race is the most suitable word. Species, which might be more accurate, I dont use for similar reasons. It just sounds out of place.
It does not come up much. But I think race is the most suitable word. Species, which might be more accurate, I dont use for similar reasons. It just sounds out of place.
- Thread starter
- #16
BiggusBeardus
Minstrel
Thanks for the feedback everyone! That helps!
If the two groups can interbreed they're separate races, if they can't they're separate species. That simplifies biology a little, but I stick to it in worldbuilding. That is of course when we're referring to "races" such as dwarves, elves and gnomes.
Rexenm
Inkling
I think of race as species, I also use a and no, when referring to them. There are all sorts of different labels, but I tend to use these two. It does however make it difficult to see why they are a fighting.
Finchbearer
Istar
I suppose in a species of human you have different races, but in fantasy, I would have thought dwarves are probably a different sub-species of human, or maybe they’re a different species altogether? Meaning they would b not be a fantasy ‘race’ at all. Or maybe in fantasy terms all magical creatures just get referred to as ‘races’.
Queshire
Istar
Depends on the setting. The majority of races in mine descend from common stock, but a few (like gnomes) have a separate origin. Even then there's enough magic to ensure anyone can have kids with anyone that species is mostly academic.
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