Fantasy or Sci fi?

[caters]

I often consider my stories, especially ones about life on other planets to be sci fi. The generation ship story is definitely sci fi. But I have heard of science fantasy and that sounds similar to sci fi.

So how can I tell if I am writing sci fi or science fantasy?

The reason I am asking about those 2 genres is that all of my stories are at least partly science based(Genetics in Math World for example and biology in Life on Kepler Bb and astronomy in Humans with Dragons(generation ship story)).

So how can I tell the 2 apart?

Would science fantasy be like Math World where genetics and physics are like the real world but the overall race(numbers) and how each one is formed is unlike real world(and in this case, super compact solar system of 62 planets)?

And would sci fi be like science fantasy but even more science based?

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Science fiction= involves technology and scientific explanations for defying the rules of reality. Extrapolates about how technology and science could advance; involves "not-yet-developed" technology.

Fantasy= involves magic or the supernatural as explanations for defying the rules of reality.

But, they're on a continuum. On the one side you have completely bonkers fantasy worlds governed by whimsy where anything goes and logic doesn't apply to anything. On the far, far other side you have the hardest of hard science fiction that's extremely exact and technical, foundationed completely on real, verifiable science.

Almost all science fiction that's not very hard science fiction does a *little* assuming and handwaving. FTL travel and time travel are givens in sci-fi as a whole, though probably impossible in reality. For science fiction we sometimes have to assume that some things are plausible, gloss over some inconvenient truths, ignore problematic details...

Science fantasy isn't exactly the middle of the spectrum, usually. It's more a combination of things pulled from both sides. Very soft science fiction might be considered science fantasy. But, typically science fantasy consists of a coexistence of the supernatural/magical and theoretical technology. The best example I can think of is Star Wars. You have technology (speeders, space stations, FTL travel, holograms, etc etc) and you have magic/supernatural element (the Force and the Jedi and Sith). These two elements don't blur or interact that much, with the possible exception of the lightsabers (supposedly, you need the Force to make and use a lightsaber) I would also consider the Marvel movies and comics to be science fantasy. You have very questionable pseudo-sciencey stuff, and then you have actual magic and whathaveyou that I THINK is somehow scientifically explained sort of. In the movie Thor the title character tells Jane Foster, "Your ancestors called it magic, and you call it science. I come from a place where they are one and the same thing." So, there's this attempt to unite the two.

That said, from what I've seen of what you've said about your stories, they seem to be science fiction.

 

[skip.knox]

Why does it matter? That's a serious question, not a challenge.

IMO, write the stories. Send them out to publishers and agents. Let those people answer the questions you have posed here while you continue to write more stories.

 

[Steerpike]

Why does it matter? That's a serious question, not a challenge.

IMO, write the stories. Send them out to publishers and agents. Let those people answer the questions you have posed here while you continue to write more stories.

I don't know that it matters a whole lot with respect to this particular distinction, but it could come into play. If you have editors, for example, putting out a call for science fantasy for a publication, you'd want to have some idea of where the dividing line, hazy thought it may be, is found. If you're approaching an editor or agent who wants SF but not fantasy, you'll want to find out at least what their definitions of SF and fantasy are. One hopes the submission guidelines will spell this out.

Apart from a sort of basic orientation to guide submissions to the correct markets, agents, and the like, I think you're right, this isn't something to worry a lot about. If you go the traditional publishing route, the publisher will want to decide where to market the book.

 

[skip.knox]

I agree in principle, Steerpike, but not in practice. In practice, you want to read the publisher's backlist, or several issues of the magazine (assuming same editor during the run), because you're not really trying to identify is it SF or is it fantasy, you're trying to identify that editor's particular preferences and prejudices. The Submissions page ought to give you some initial ideas, but there's no substitute for getting a feel for what that particular outlet is looking for. And that in turn is better served by ordinary human impressions than by trying to reference abstract categories.

The place where it comes into play more, imo, is in self-pub. It's in those pesky keywords and in the choice of words in your blurb. Here again, though, rather than suppose there is a pre-existing taxonomy upon which all agree, an author is better served by familiarizing himself with the specific discourse. Urban vampire romance has its own vocabulary. If one hangs out in forums, reads those kind of books, goes to those kind of conventions, and generally enters into that world, then one begins to understand whether one's own stories fit there or not. And the keywords will come rather naturally.

The short version of all this is: rather than ask others, find out for yourself. Read. Listen. There are no clear answers to this question and there are no quick answers. And the research will be its own reward. I have both learned much here at Mythic Scribes and have been well rewarded.

 

[ksyfullah07]

I think you are something in mid between sci-fi and science fantasy. It is better not to mix both of them.Try to keep them apart

 

[SaltyDog]

My opinion is that Fantasy basically circulates one thing, a medieval or semi medieval culture, meaning the war, lifestyle and travel all have medieval tints or traces. And another thing that defines Fantasy for me is no space travel, not even with magic. It has to be set in one world and that's where it stays.

Of course magic could transport you to another dimension, but that's not space travel and so my point stands.

Now for Sci Fi, well... space? Advanced technologies and planets, stars and galaxies. Magic can still be involved, but if you add advanced technology it then becomes Sci Fi. Think of Star Wars. Fantasy, or Sci Fi? I would say Sci Fi. You have magic, (The force,) And you have technology and space travel.

But isn't Fantasy and Sci Fi both just branches with each other? I think so.

But I'm not correct, because you have steam punk. Where does that fall into? A little of both? Some books I have read about the subject include both technology far surpassing the middle ages, yet space travel isn't even dreamed about, and magic is a common part of daily life. Someone can probably summarize and explain it far better then I, but that's what fantasy and Sci Fi mean to me.

Interesting thread.

 

[Peat]

There's plenty of fantasy books where magic transports people to another planet in the same dimension. A few that are fantasies that definitely have spaceships.

I daresay there is a border here somewhere, but its one that authors have built all over without giving a flying fornication.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Fantasy doesn't have to be medieval that's not at all what it's about. It's about the supernatural/magical/otherworldly element.

 

[Steerpike]

Fantasy doesn't have to be medieval that's not at all what it's about. It's about the supernatural/magical/otherworldly element.

And really just the latter, if we want to define a minimum threshold, as there are plenty of fantasy books without supernatural or magical elements.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

And really just the latter, if we want to define a minimum threshold, as there are plenty of fantasy books without supernatural or magical elements.

Very true. I've read plenty of fantasy books that pretty much just take place in an imaginary place, without any magic or supernatural element.

 

[Reaver]

And really just the latter, if we want to define a minimum threshold, as there are plenty of fantasy books without supernatural or magical elements.

And who better than the Master of Castle Gormenghast to make this point?

(Much respect to Mr. Peake btw...)

 

[FifthView]

Like others, beyond marketing purposes and targeting an audience, I'm not sure whether the question is important.

The Wikipedia article describes Rod Serling's distinction:

Distinguishing between science fiction and fantasy, Rod Serling claimed that the former was "the improbable made possible" while the latter was "the impossible made probable".

I don't know how helpful that can be.

I think DragonOfTheAerie's description is pretty good, and it resembles Serling's answer to the difference between science fiction and fantasy.

Excepting hard science fiction, there is plenty of handwaving in science fiction. Not everything is explained. But I don't think this necessarily changes that science fiction into fantasy. A story that's not intended as science fiction or fantasy but merely contemporary fiction could have cell phones without bothering to explain how they work—most people currently using cell phones in the real world could never build one and don't know all the details of their operation but simply accept them as technology and not magic. Similarly, the handwaving in science fiction tends to skimp on describing the minutia of technology, doesn't justify its existence by explaining its operation, but doesn't go so far as to leave the reader feeling that the technology is impossible. Besides which, the implication is made that others in that fictional world do understand all those minute details; they're just not in the story and/or have no reason to explain it within the story.

Science fantasy isn't exactly the middle of the spectrum, usually. It's more a combination of things pulled from both sides.

^This, for me, is prescient. I've always been a fan of Clarke's observation that "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." So yes, I do believe there are some approaches that can make the distinction fuzzy enough to leave in doubt whether the story is SF or Fantasy. But science fantasy, from my own personal perspective, doesn't even try to do that. There's no close approach between the two but instead a free combination, technology/science and blatant fantasy used, without any sort of explanation for why one can exist in the world of the other.

A slight caveat here: Things like some versions of steampunk, particularly the anime variety, seem to take the approach that, "This is fantasy. But I'm throwing in technology also." I wouldn't call those science fantasy, even if they have steam engines and the like, but merely fantasy. A lot of those incorporate technology that is, by the standards of our modern technology, old, not new. But isolating where fantasy becomes science fantasy in those stories might not be simple in all cases. What if a steampunk society successfully builds a robot using that type of technology? Or the many flying machines that we never saw in our own world's history, out of steam engines and giant rubber bands and so forth? (I.e., using technology that is "older" than our current technology but doing things with it that we can't do with our own technology yet?)

Outright/obvious magic, mystical powers, and the like tend to be included in science fantasy alongside obvious advanced technology. I think that the people within the fictional world tend to know, themselves, that a) there's science, and then there's b) something else.

 

[Steerpike]

No definition will be free of problems, including my own, which tends to be less popular than some. To me, to be science fiction, a story has to be rooted in some way in our current understanding of science. When something deviates from our general understanding, there should be at least a baseline explanation that still finds some underpinning of support in science, however theoretical and improbable it might be.

To me, Star Wars is pure fantasy. You can call it science fantasy, but the word "science" has no meaning in that context, and there is nothing to actually distinguish it from fantasy in space.

I'm likely in the minority

 

[SaltyDog]

I know that, and I see that as one of my problems with writing. I've only read epic fantasy, some steampunk, but not any Sci Fi which can then show I'm biased. I only write medieval fantasy, or close to it anyway, and I've never tried my hand at the Sci Fi.

Maybe I should, and open up my horizon and views on the genre.

 

[Reaver]

I had to dig deep in the far recesses of my mind but allow me to direct your attention to Anne McCaffrey's outstanding Dragonriders of Pern. It is classified as science fiction but has many fantasy elements. (Apart from the obvious.)

 

[SaltyDog]

I had to dig deep in the far recesses of my mind but allow me to direct your attention to Anne McCaffrey's outstanding Dragonriders of Pern. It is classified as science fiction but has many fantasy elements. (Apart from the obvious.)

Thanks. I'll look into it.

 

[SaltyDog]

No definition will be free of problems, including my own, which tends to be less popular than some. To me, to be science fiction, a story has to be rooted in some way in our current understanding of science. When something deviates from our general understanding, there should be at least a baseline explanation that still finds some underpinning of support in science, however theoretical and improbable it might be.

To me, Star Wars is pure fantasy. You can call it science fantasy, but the word "science" has no meaning in that context, and there is nothing to actually distinguish it from fantasy in space.

I'm likely in the minority

Which makes sense that Star Wars is fantasy, but what genre of fantasy? Isn't Fantasy just involving an out of this world concept that the writer creates a world around?

 

[Steerpike]

Which makes sense that Star Wars is fantasy, but what genre of fantasy? Isn't Fantasy just involving an out of this world concept that the writer creates a world around?

Good question. If you define fantasy broadly enough, science fiction could be seen as a subset of fantasy.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Good question. If you define fantasy broadly enough, science fiction could be seen as a subset of fantasy.

Genre will never completely and perfectly contain or describe all the stories that exist. It's an imperfect system. I might even go far as to say that genre doesn't really exist. All stories are, at the core, just stories.

At any rate genre isn't so much a box your story goes in as a cloud it hovers in, overlapping with other clouds. Vague and hard to cleanly define.