Prices of various things

[valiant12]

Can you give me some information, or recommend me some resources about the prices of various things throughout different historical periods. I'm mostly interested in what my main characters can afford with their incomes and not the exact prices. In other words what was expensive and what was cheap. Things i'm especially interested in;
-salt
-spices
-cooking utensils
-furniture
-alcohol- beer,ale,cider,wine,rum,other
-clothes
-fancy clothes
-wigs
-gloves
-hats
-socks
-winter clothes
-honey/sugar
-shoes
-animals(horses,farm animals,pets,exotic pets)
-decent weapons
-arows/gunpowder
-glass jugs
-tabaco
-candles
-books
-knives
Historical periods that im interested in- early middle ages, middle ages,15 century, 18 century, early 19 century,

 

[MineOwnKing]

A time traveller’s guide to medieval 14th-century shopping | History Extra


Not really my expertise, but some simple google searches should help you, such as this link.

 

[Nagash]

If you are working on historical fiction, I second MineOwnKing's advice - google is your friend. On the other hand, if you are attempting to write a story in a completely made up world/setting, you can assess the price of items and resources by determining their rarity, which doesn't have to be the same than in our world. You can index the price of objects on common, and less common metals used as a currency. Gold, silver and copper (to use a common monetary system in medieval fantasy) can therefore be used to trade goods and services of different worth. Of course, you do not have to stick to the idea of metallic currency; stones, amulets or what have you can be used in an attempt to build a monetary system.

Since I went for big-worldbuilding, I decided to re-assess the value of every common resources according to their rarity in context, with gold, silver and copper keeping a similar worth : wood, iron, clay, coal, wool, fur, and so on...

Btw, trying to keep a table of prices of the most important resources (metal, food, fabric, etc...) helps immensely in world-building as a whole. It helps a great deal to determine the natural wealth of nations, their economic history and their crafting/trade potential.

... I might have spent too much time on worldbuilding these days.

 

[skip.knox]

This is a question regularly asked by my students. It requires a whole lecture and even then I barely touch the surface, so this is going to be even more abbreviated.

Yes, you can find lists online. There are a couple of things to keep in mind as you do so. One, it's a different historical epoch. A staple such as salt had a different intrinsic value in 1216 than it does in 2016. A better example is pepper, which was very expensive in the Middle Ages but is cheap in the modern age. So you can't just take straight equivalencies. Think about it: how much would a Ford Mustang be worth in 1300?

Two, think more in terms of ratios. A horse might be worth five barrels of wine, or twenty-five hogs, or whatever. This quickly gets extremely complicated, though.

The third of the couple of things is this: prices were far more flexible in the Middle Ages than you might imagine. This was especially true of staples such as wheat. Prices could triple, quadruple or more within weeks if there was a crop failure. Moreover, prices were not usually fixed but were fluid, especially in the countryside. Even in towns, price regulations didn't really come into play until the very end of the Middle Ages.

So, go ahead and explore around. But don't be surprised or dismayed by the lack of consistency. Just grab the bits you want and know that at some time and place, that's probably what it went for.

If you want to go hardcore, here's a jumping-off point into all kinds of historical statistical databases.
List of Datafiles of Historical Prices and Wages

 

[valiant12]

, I decided to re-assess the value of every common resources according to their rarity in context, with gold, silver and copper keeping a similar worth : wood, iron, clay, coal, wool, fur, and so on...

My mc probably can't afford the horse he is riding in the beginning of the story considering that horses are really expensive in his homeland.The place simple cannot support a large horse population.

A horse might be worth five barrels of wine, or twenty-five hogs, or whatever

If that is the price of a horse in place were horses are common then my character definitely can't afford to buy a horse in his homeland.
I have decided to make my world economic not particularly realistic. I hope that if someday i publish my book, nobody would care that high quality weapons made with rare metals and decorated with gems,nice clothes,horses,plate armor made from gold , glass items and other things are more common than they should be.

 

[Nagash]

You shouldn't worry about making your economy completely realistic. Unless you're intending to write a fantasy series with a a great emphasis on trade and numbers (which I can't imagine being enjoyable, but who knows) the price of items and wealth in general will rarely appear in your story. Sure, he might buy a horse for two silvers - whatever this means in your world, the reader won't really make a big deal out of it, simply because he doesn't have an excel file of general prices in your world's economy. If you decide to fix prices for items and the worth of copper, horses, wine, leather what have you, you're only doing it for you and your need, as a writer, to have a precisely drawn trade structure. It will help making sense out of the ideas of wealth in your world. But the reader will most likely never get to a point where is has enough information to actually start deciphering numbers to judge if your world's economy is realistic or not.

Like most of the world-building you will achieve, it won't appear in its entirety in your novels. You just use it to build a base, upon which you can write stories others will read and appreciate because of how coherent and accurately sophisticated they are, thanks to the details you elaborated firsthand. Its "offscreen" work, if you will.

 

[Gallio]

There's a Sherlock Holmes story where one of the main clues is a hotel bill.
It contains the item: 'Glass of sherry, 8 pence'.
Therefore an expensive hotel.

 

[Super Fantasy]

Hatchet - four small silver coins
A sword - six small silver coins
A high quality shield - ten silver coins
Armor might be very expensive as well.

 

[Super Fantasy]

Prices are important but also the type of currency.

 

[skip.knox]

>my character definitely can't afford to buy a horse
Well, there's afford and then there's acquire.

First decide what your character needs to possess, both at the start of the story, along the way, and at the end. Then you can address ways in which that character might come by such items. Purchase is one way. Theft is another. Bequest another, and happenstance is yet another. Nobody goes out an buys Excaliber, but if your character is King Arthur, then your character gets the sword.

I think you will find that, having considering these alternatives, matters of currency and cost take a distant back seat.

That said, your story could also very much hang on such matters. Set it in 19th century Paris or New York (or some fantasy equivalent), and the price of things could matter quite a bit. You could still tell a good story without needing a wage/price table (you can readily find such).

 

[ThinkerX]

I use the old TSR (now Wizards of the Coast unless they changed their name again) 'Historical Earth' campaign sourcebooks for this sort of thing. These books given prices and availability (along with coin types used) for

Ancient Greece (800 BC to 200 BC),

Roman Republic/Empire (call it 200 BC to 400 AD),

Celtic lands (call it 300 BC to 500 AD)

Dark Ages (Charlemagne's era, or very roughly western/southern Europe between 700 and 900 AD),

Viking Era (Scandinavia and parts of Europe from roughly 800 - 1200 AD),

Middle Ages (emphasis crusades and Middle East roughly 900 - 1200 AD),

and finally, the Renaissance/early age of exploration (1500 - 1700 AD).

Most of them have a 'day in the life of' passage or chapter, names commonly used in those eras/cultures, historical timelines, and sections on Gods, worship, and magic (mutilating game magic to fit what was actually meant.)

 

[Prince of Spires]

An interesting thing here is that this is one of those cases where getting it right might actually make your reader feel like you're getting it wrong, or just plain confusing them.

Like the expensive glass of sherry for 8p. That's so far out of the realm of experience for the reader that it feels like it should be wrong. Of course, if you're constantly mentioning these kind of prices, and this is just one of them, then the reader will learn the prices in your world. But otherwise, you'll just confuse the hell of of the reader.

Similar to army sizes. In some out of the way regions, some smaller medieval castles had a permanent army size of 7 people. Mentioning this would feel ridiculous to a reader, since everyone "knows" armies are measured in the tens of thousands, not tens or hundreds.

 

[Mad Swede]

An interesting thing here is that this is one of those cases where getting it right might actually make your reader feel like you're getting it wrong, or just plain confusing them.

Like the expensive glass of sherry for 8p. That's so far out of the realm of experience for the reader that it feels like it should be wrong. Of course, if you're constantly mentioning these kind of prices, and this is just one of them, then the reader will learn the prices in your world. But otherwise, you'll just confuse the hell of of the reader.

Maybe. In the context of that particular story the price reference works, because contemporary readers would have been familiar with prices and so would have realised that it said something about both the recipient of the bill and the hotel concerned.

Price references, like everything else in our stories, are contextual. Establishing that an old horse costs 35 silver coins early on in the story means that when the hero buys a horse costing 8 gold coins you know it's a really top notch horse. It's the way you use such references whoch determines whether they work or not.

Similar to army sizes. In some out of the way regions, some smaller medieval castles had a permanent army size of 7 people. Mentioning this would feel ridiculous to a reader, since everyone "knows" armies are measured in the tens of thousands, not tens or hundreds.

Confusion in that particular example is caused by using the wrong expression. A castle will have a garrison, not an army, and using the right expression (and maybe having a character ask an innocent question) allows you to set the scene in ever more detail.

 

[skip.knox]

>An interesting thing here is that this is one of those cases where getting it right might actually make your reader feel like you're getting it wrong, or just plain confusing them.

Yep. I'll go further and assert that no matter what you portray and how you portray it, some of your readers will say you got it wrong, some will say you got it absolutely right, and some just won't care. Here, as with much else, the thing to do is meet your own standards first, and try to have high standards. Get it right to your own satisfaction.

 

[PunkRoar]

I don't know much about this subject, but I hope this will help you or at least give you some guidance:
Salt and spices: In ancient times, salt was incredibly valuable and pricey, used for preservation. Spices like pepper, cinnamon, and cloves were also costly and considered luxury items.
Cooking utensils: Basic cooking tools were relatively affordable throughout history. However, specialized or intricate utensils might have been pricier.
Furniture: Furniture costs varied widely, with ornate pieces being expensive. In the early middle ages, furniture was often sparse and simple.
Alcohol: The cost of alcohol depended on factors like production methods and taxes. Beer and ale were often cheaper than wine and spirits.
Clothes: Basic clothing was affordable, but fine fabrics and tailoring came at a higher cost.
Wigs, gloves, hats, socks: These were often considered luxury accessories, especially in the 18th century.
Winter clothes: Winter wear could be more expensive due to the need for warm materials.
Honey/sugar: Sugar was once a luxury, and honey was a common sweetener.
Shoes: Basic shoes were affordable, but quality leather or stylish designs could be costly.
Animals: Prices varied greatly based on the type of animal and its intended use.
Weapons: Decent weapons could be expensive, especially in the medieval period.
Glass jugs: Glass items were luxury goods until mass production made them more affordable in later centuries.
Tobacco: Tobacco prices varied, but it became more affordable as production increased.
Candles: Tallow candles were cheaper than beeswax candles.
Books: Early books were expensive due to manual copying, but printing reduced costs over time.
Knives: Basic knives were affordable, while ornate or specialized ones could be costly.

 

[pmmg]

I'm gonna second Thinker. Find a good RPG aid, fudge it a little, and call it good enough for government work. In general, if you keep the costs in low amounts of silver or copper, you should be fine.

Another way to scale, might be to set the price on one object, and base the others off of it. If I say a dagger is one silver, how much more or less costly is it to make a spoon? or an axe? or a cup?

 

[ThinkerX]

I'm gonna second Thinker. Find a good RPG aid, fudge it a little, and call it good enough for government work. In general, if you keep the costs in low amounts of silver or copper, you should be fine.

Another way to scale, might be to set the price on one object, and base the others off of it. If I say a dagger is one silver, how much more or less costly is it to make a spoon? or an axe? or a cup?

So....have you dug up copies of the Historical Earth Supplements or their equivalents yet?

 

[pmmg]

Oh, that was a question to me...

I am not sure what that is. If I was to dig any of them up, I would go to the old Player's handbook, Unearthed Arcana, Dungeoneers and wilderness survival books.

But...honestly, I'd not feel the need for pricing. Thing about economies is, they self correct.

If I work 10 hours a day and make 10 copper coins, and a meal costs me just one coin....then a meal is really worth one hour of my labor. If the economy changes, and the same labor now gets 10 silver coins, guess what happens to the cost of a meal? Its still only worth the same amount of labor in trade. (all other factors being being equal, of course). So, if I know the price of a meal, and its relative value to other things, I can take a good guess as to what things ought to cost. Enough, that it wont cause a reader to go look it up.

 

[Queshire]

You do need to be careful if you rely on stuff from RPGs. They can give some weird results.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Salt and spices: In ancient times, salt was incredibly valuable and pricey, used for preservation.

Salt wasn't actually that pricey, though it was a lot more expensive than it is today (but that's mainly because it's dirt-cheap today). Of course prices fluctuated a lot (since ancient times covers a period of a few thousand years...). And it was important (in the same sense that food is important), but it was also priced in such a way that the average worker could afford it.

As for spices, those prices mainly depend on local availability. The reason spices were so expensive in europe for large parts of history for instance was that we had to get all of them from somewhere else. Which took a long and dangerous sea voyage or caravan trip. If your character has a peper bush in his back garden, then he can put as much peper on anything he wants without considering the cost at all.

The few exceptions here are those that are hard and labour intensive to grow. Things like saffron, which are still expensive today, are expensive because you get very little of it from a small plant which blooms once a year, and then it's a lot of work to actually get the stuff. And then it's delicate and needs to be transported with care.