Self Publishing: Interested?

[Mad Swede]

That is not true. There are many ways copyright may come to belong to the publisher. It is something you would have to negotiate, and if you are not careful, you may lose it.

Who Owns the Copyright to Published Works?

Yes it is true, certainly for the purposes of this discussion.

The only way you as an author don't have any copyright in a work is if you write it for someone else (eg your employer) - like technical writers, many engineers, journalists, ghostwriters and most screenwriters do. Otherwise you as the author always own the copyright - as the article you linked to makes clear.

No serious publisher would ever try to get copyright from an author. If the publisher you are talking to wants the copyright to your work then it is time to walk away.

One very well known incident of losing rights is Sylvester Stallone and his Rocky creation.

Why Sylvester Stallone Doesn't Have any 'Rocky' Ownership

Stallone has never owned any share in the rights to the character - he may have created the character and written the story, but he sold the rights to someone else. Before we waste too much sympathy on him we should note that he's made nearly $450 million from those films despite not owning any rights. Most actors are lucky to earn a tenth of that in their whole careers.

It is something we as authors have to watch when we sell the film and TV rights to our books, because what can happen is that the producers want to be able to write their own stories using the characters and setting we have created. At that point you, the author, risk losing creative control. As I wrote earlier, get a good lawyer or agent if you get an offer to buy rights to your work.

 

[Mad Swede]

If you sell publishing rights, you can't run around publishing it, can you? They'd come after you. Do they "own" everything? Not techincally, but in effect, they own part of it... the publishing rights. That's why you sell the rights country by country. And again, that's why many writers end up buying back their rights to regain control and to take their books away from the OOP pile.

Of course you can't publish the book if you've sold the publishing rights. Which is why you as the author should think so carefully about which rights you are selling and how long you are selling those rights for. I won't repeat what I wrote earlier, other than to say that we as authors need to think carefully and take qualified advice before we sign a publishing contract.

Here in Sweden the standard rights period is seven years, after which the rights automatically revert to the author. That rights period can be extended with the agreement of the author and the publisher. The rights also revert automatically to the author if the publisher goes bust. So I don't need to buy anything back from my publisher - in fact we extended the contract a few months ago, and the books are in for another reprint.

The Moomin books are another interesting example of this, the Tove Jansson estate set up their own publishing company to handle the books after the publishing rights reverted to the estate when they refused to extend the publishing contract.

 

[JeffML]

It is more about whether they want you or one of a thousand other manuscripts in their slush pile. Agents admit it (at least some do) books will get turned down by the mood they're in. Agents don't make big bucks (most of them) just like most writers don't make big bucks, and it's an ugly game of politics, politics, politics and trying to pick what's going to trend next while making the right people happy, or at least, not pissing them off. If you think the biz is egalitarian and a meritocracy, I've chatted with enough ex-publishers and agents to know better,

I played the screenwriting game enough to know one thing: Connections rule. Oh sure, there are always tales of screenplays getting picked up out of the nether, but most of the business is insider trading. Traditional publishing in the US is much the same, with one major EXCEPT, it's easier to get your foot in the door with agents and publishers at conventions and way more books are published than movies. Trouble is, there are way more people writing books than movies and they've been rubbing elbows for years.

My rule of thumb is probably a bit harsh: I submit to three top agents, wait to see if any want to dance, and if they don't, I push the Publish Button, LOL.

Shoot for the brass ring as much as you like, but don't fear to be your own boss. Indie can be a lot of fun for those crazy enough to enjoy it, heh heh.

Wow, your response is full of insights. Thank you.

I am currently building the fictional world and the characters through flash fiction pieces on my Medium account (starting with no followers).

This same world and characters that I'll be writing series in. I figure, if I show an agent that this fictional world already has a following, I'll be at least worth a look.

I think I like your tactic too. Might as well pitch to agents to see if you can get them to bite. If not, publish it yourself.

 

[Ned Marcus]

The major publishers in English-speaking countries take all rights for the lifetime of the author + 70 years. Some even take outer space rights. That's not a joke. I've spoken to many writers about this. With smaller publishers, it's possible to negotiate different deals, but unless you're famous, losing all rights with the major publishers is normal.

 

[JeffML]

The major publishers in English-speaking countries take all rights for the lifetime of the author + 70 years. Some even take outer space rights. That's not a joke. I've spoken to many writers about this. With smaller publishers, it's possible to negotiate different deals, but unless you're famous, losing all rights with the major publishers is normal.

A big commitment.
If they have the rights to everything, then they have leverage to control the entire fictional world, characters, plot.

 

[Ban]

The major publishers in English-speaking countries take all rights for the lifetime of the author + 70 years. Some even take outer space rights. That's not a joke. I've spoken to many writers about this. With smaller publishers, it's possible to negotiate different deals, but unless you're famous, losing all rights with the major publishers is normal.

No clue how often this happens, but thanks for giving me another reason to continue self-publishing.

 

[Ned Marcus]

A big commitment.
If they have the rights to everything, then they have leverage to control the entire fictional world, characters, plot.

I was thinking of commercial rights. There is room for negotiation, but the big publishers will try to take lifetime + 70 years for ebooks, physical books, and audiobooks. Other rights too. Most authors I've spoken to personally and listened to online say it's hard to fight against this. Authors do negotiate some things, of course. I've not heard of publishers taking over the fictional world; I don't think that happens, although I've heard of some publishers trying to sneak in non-compete clauses preventing authors from switching the series to another publisher halfway.

 

[Ned Marcus]

No clue how often this happens, but thanks for giving me another reason to continue self-publishing.

I'm meeting more trad authors who are switching to self-publishing. From what I've heard, this is a fairly recent phenomena. Really, I'm just reporting what I keep hearing from trad authors.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Mad Swede I think your experience with a Swedish publisher is very different from that of English language publishers. The default length of a contract in the english language market is for the life of the copyright, as in life of the author + 70 years. I've never come across a beginning author who managed to change that. Maybe as a celebrity or best-selling author you might be able to change that. But I doubt it. This is a take it or leave it kind of clause. If you don't want a contract for life of copyright, then you have to go indie.

As for which rights to sell. The big publishers all go for paperback, hardcover, and ebook at a minimum. Most of them also grab the audiobook rights. All of them will attempt to get all rights, though you can usually retain movie rights and special edition rights. Again, if you don't want to give up those, then don't go with a trad publisher.

There are some smaller publishers who work with indie authors, and who grab only the print rights, while you retain the ebook rights. But then you're basically just indie publishing and using the publisher as distributer.

As for territories, there are 2 english language territories: US and worldwide (as in everywhere except the US). UK publishers generally grab both, since they want to avoid the Harry Potter scenario (where the publisher only had worldwide rights, and Rowling sold the US rights for lots after HP became a success). US publishers usually also go for both, but you might be able to negotiate a US only deal. However, since that's the biggest market by far, they mind it less.

As a beginning author, these are non-negotiable for the publishers. You don't have any leverage, since there are only a few of them and a lot of you. What you can negotiate are things like the right of first refusal, advance, marketing budget (partially at least), non-compete clause. But if you go with an english language publisher large enough to be worth your time, then expect to sell away all worldwide paperback, hardcover, ebook and audiobook rights for the rest of your life.

As for being out of print. In these days of ebooks and print on demand, no book is every truely out of print. However, unless you're selling a lot, the publisher will ignore your book in favor of a new release. Because that's where the money for them is. And since you make less per book than an indie author, marketing is a lot harder.

 

[Mad Swede]

A big commitment.
If they have the rights to everything, then they have leverage to control the entire fictional world, characters, plot.

No. Speaking from experience, the real commitment comes when you've signed the contract and you find yourself working to deadlines. What started as a fun hobby is suddenly deadly serious. Still fun, at least for me, but it is a commitment.

 

[Mad Swede]

I'm meeting more trad authors who are switching to self-publishing. From what I've heard, this is a fairly recent phenomena. Really, I'm just reporting what I keep hearing from trad authors.

Yes, that happens even here in Sweden. But, as one of those authors said to me, it works only if you're already known because then you don't have to go through all the hard work of establishing your name.

 

[Mad Swede]

Mad Swede I think your experience with a Swedish publisher is very different from that of English language publishers. The default length of a contract in the english language market is for the life of the copyright, as in life of the author + 70 years. I've never come across a beginning author who managed to change that. Maybe as a celebrity or best-selling author you might be able to change that. But I doubt it. This is a take it or leave it kind of clause. If you don't want a contract for life of copyright, then you have to go indie.

As for which rights to sell. The big publishers all go for paperback, hardcover, and ebook at a minimum. Most of them also grab the audiobook rights. All of them will attempt to get all rights, though you can usually retain movie rights and special edition rights. Again, if you don't want to give up those, then don't go with a trad publisher.

There are some smaller publishers who work with indie authors, and who grab only the print rights, while you retain the ebook rights. But then you're basically just indie publishing and using the publisher as distributer.

As for territories, there are 2 english language territories: US and worldwide (as in everywhere except the US). UK publishers generally grab both, since they want to avoid the Harry Potter scenario (where the publisher only had worldwide rights, and Rowling sold the US rights for lots after HP became a success). US publishers usually also go for both, but you might be able to negotiate a US only deal. However, since that's the biggest market by far, they mind it less.

As a beginning author, these are non-negotiable for the publishers. You don't have any leverage, since there are only a few of them and a lot of you. What you can negotiate are things like the right of first refusal, advance, marketing budget (partially at least), non-compete clause. But if you go with an english language publisher large enough to be worth your time, then expect to sell away all worldwide paperback, hardcover, ebook and audiobook rights for the rest of your life.

As for being out of print. In these days of ebooks and print on demand, no book is every truely out of print. However, unless you're selling a lot, the publisher will ignore your book in favor of a new release. Because that's where the money for them is. And since you make less per book than an indie author, marketing is a lot harder.

OK, writing from current experience. Yes, all the English language publishers will negotiate on contract length. We're there now, and what you need is a good book. But, at that point in the negotiations you as the author have to be prepared to trade off something else, because negotiating a contract isn't a one way street. That trade-off seems to be that the English language publishers want global English language rights, but this is something my Swedish publisher (who act as my agent) won't agree to. We'll probably end up compromising and say that they can have the English language rights in the UK, Eire, Australia, New Zealand, Africa, the Middle East, India, the US and Canada. The European rights to the English language edition is something my Swedish publisher wants (and don't yet have), since the translation and editing has already been done. It doesn't really make much difference in practice, since the readers in Europe can always go to Amazon in one of those other countries and buy their copy there.

What rights to sell? Well, even here in Sweden book rights include hardback, paperback, e-book and audio book. What you can negotiate on is royalty levels, and generally you get a better deal on the e-book and audio book (60% royalties on those in my renegotiated contract). Movie and TV rights are not something most reputable Swedish publishers want, because getting a film or show off the ground is very hard unless the book is a runaway best seller.

Options on the next book? Trust me, all publishers want that if they think your first book is worth publishing. What you negotiate on is how long they have to accept the next book. Six months is a reasonable length of time in my experience.

Marketing? Don't fool yourselves. No matter what publication route you take, you as an author will be doing quite a bit of leg work yourself. Even with a decent advance and a reasonable first print run you'll be expected to do interviews, go to book signings and give talks. This isn't paid time, it comes out of your spare time. And that commitment doesn't get any smaller as you get better known, far from it. You get more readers, more e-mails and more requests to give interviews, talks and sign books...

Make less per book with a trad deal? Yes, you'll get lower royalties. But unless you as an indie author sell several thousand copies you will make more money on your first few books by going with a trad deal (the advance you get ensures that, even if it is only $5000).

 

[JeffML]

I was thinking of commercial rights. There is room for negotiation, but the big publishers will try to take lifetime + 70 years for ebooks, physical books, and audiobooks. Other rights too. Most authors I've spoken to personally and listened to online say it's hard to fight against this. Authors do negotiate some things, of course. I've not heard of publishers taking over the fictional world; I don't think that happens, although I've heard of some publishers trying to sneak in non-compete clauses preventing authors from switching the series to another publisher halfway.

They have an incentive not to mess with the fictional world. Afterall, that's what the author has come up with that's making them money. It's best to give him autonomy.

However, based on the amount of propaganda and...not sure the word for it..but all the racial and political correctness that gets forced into stories these days, I'd say that control over the fictional world is definitely something to consider.

A good example is the series adaption of Anne Rice's Interview With The Vampire. One of my favorite books of all time, and in the series they made Louis African American.

I grew up as the only white kid in my class in Houston, I have nothing against African Americans, but this change was in such bad taste that I decided not to even give the series a chance.

What were they thinking?!

You change the eye color or hair length of a main character and you can expect fans to foam at the mouth You change the ethnicity of the protagonist that's set in Louisiana in a time of slavery and you think the fans will be OK with it?

Decisions like that do not have the fan base in mind. They are clearly based on some other agenda.

Seeing how the occurrence of these bad decisions seems to be increasing, it's safe to say that authors have to be smarter about protecting their fictional worlds.

 

[JeffML]

No. Speaking from experience, the real commitment comes when you've signed the contract and you find yourself working to deadlines. What started as a fun hobby is suddenly deadly serious. Still fun, at least for me, but it is a commitment.

I see. So, in practice, they're focused mostly on production.

They definitely do have that leverage though, whether they choose to use it or not.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Make less per book with a trad deal? Yes, you'll get lower royalties. But unless you as an indie author sell several thousand copies you will make more money on your first few books by going with a trad deal (the advance you get ensures that, even if it is only $5000).

I know. I think for a first book, it's rare to see an indie author earn $5000 net. What I meant was that it's easier to be profitable with ads as an indie author, since then you're looking at the royalties you earn per sale against the cost of getting that sale. And if you earn 70% of your ebook list price, then it's easier to earn back that 50ct click than if you only earn 25% of that(which is the common trad royalty % for ebooks). You also get direct data, so you can actually see if your marketing is working, and you can play around with the price.

So a trad author with a $5.000 advance will probably out-earn an indie author in the short term. Long term, it's easier to stay profitable as the indie author.

 

[L.L. Maurizi]

I was go trad or go home for most of my life. My author mom taught me the business. I was writing query letters for her when I was twelve. So, I was raised with that idea that only through traditional publishing could I gain validation for all my hard work.

And then my writing partners said two words that completely changed my course. "Creative control." My team went indie and we haven't looked back. We might eventually go hybrid, but that's still several years out. But now, boy, do we have some of the prettiest covers and the internal formatting is gorgeous. And we're beholden to no one but the readers, and there only sort of. We wanted to tell the stories that don't often get told, and then often only in the dark corners of publication. We write on the edge a lot of the time, our characters reflect an urban setting, being Urban Fantasy, so we have a lot of characters of color, various gender identities and persuasions, and we have disabled characters. Lots of mental health issues, fair bit of drug use. And then there's the polyamory. I just don't trust a traditional publisher to give us free reign. I don't want a publisher to decide the series isn't making enough fast enough, or that they don't like our LGBTQ+ characters, and characters of color, or our disabled characters, and so it gets cancelled. But no, as an indie the only gatekeepers are on my team, and it's solely our choices which guide us to success.

Investigate each option closely. There are benefits to both, and drawbacks. As indies, we get a higher percentage of the profits, but we're also on the hook for everything: covers, formatting (both ebook and hardcopy), advertising, editing (both copyediting and developmental editing), and all of our own marketing outside of ads: joining writer and reader groups, interacting with readers, choosing the webpages and aesthetic that will work best with your series, and spreading the word that your books are available.

Traditional is slightly different. Traditional publishers can get you into bookstores and libraries, but so can you. They do front much of the initial costs, but you have no control over your cover or the final edits. You have no control over any of this. And then they dump the rest of the project on you and you do your own marketing, just like an indie, except the publishing house often has opinions on what you post and can make you change things. You do get money as an advance, but advances have been shrinking since 2008, when publishers reduced them at the onset of that recession and then simply never raised them again. A contract for a single book might earn you a $5k advance... maybe. Everything else is in your hands.

Have you always focused on fantasy (I have been snooping your website)? I wonder if you find fantasy to be harder or about the same when it comes to self-publishing. I speak from ignorance but, while I know anything can be self-published, I feel like genres other than fantasy (YA, memoirs, guide books, etc) have an easier time gaining traction than fantasy might.

I ask this because I just finished my first book, I am unpublished, preparing to contact agents (and to self-publish if I fail).

 

[L.L. Maurizi]

Unlike many people in the thread I am a never-published novelist. I had papers, journals and articles published, but never a book.

I just finished my first novel, a high-fantasy, and I am inclined to go for traditional publishing first, and self-publishing, if I hit nothing but water. My reasoning was that, given my very limited experience in the publishing industry, having an agent/publisher in my corner would be nice. On top of that, I hope my book to be the first of a series, meaning that If someone is interested in the book, it would make writing and marketing the sequels easier.

Self publishing is also appealing to me (originally that is what I was thinking to do). I prepared my cover and designs, pagination, interior design.

I still don't know which one is better but I feel that most people who have picked one or the other have had some experience, or insight in both. I say we try the same.

 

[pmmg]

From my own observation, romance and erotica are the easiest to have success at. But its not what i want to do.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Both are viable. And genre doesn't matter. Romance is the best selling genre (both for indie and trad by the way), but that's simply because that's where most readers are. However, it's also where most writers are, so it's not easier or harder than other genres. Maybe the only thing that's harder with fantasy is that novels tend to be a bit longer, which makes rapidly releasing many of them (like 1 every month or every other month) to build up an audience and a series harder.

I would advice against keeping self-publishing as a back-up option. In the sense that it's not. Of course you can always self publish a novel, just to have it out there. Just don't expect it to sell if you do. Self-publishing should be a concious choice, one where you go all-in (for that novel). Of course, you can switch from one of the other if stuff doesn't work out. But both are a long journey, so it's better to commit to one or the other.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Have you always focused on fantasy (I have been snooping your website)? I wonder if you find fantasy to be harder or about the same when it comes to self-publishing. I speak from ignorance but, while I know anything can be self-published, I feel like genres other than fantasy (YA, memoirs, guide books, etc) have an easier time gaining traction than fantasy might.

I ask this because I just finished my first book, I am unpublished, preparing to contact agents (and to self-publish if I fail).

Grats on your first draft of the rest of your life! That first The End is the best. But you know what the reward is for a job well done? Another job. Tuck that draft away for a few weeks, keep any and all notes you make about it while it percolates, and start the next book.

This is the Way.

All three of us gravitated towards Speculative Fiction (Fantasy, Horror, SciFi) very early, and my wife and I (KV and JV) have been collaborating for over thirty years. That being said, I would never, for an instant, tell anyone this genre is easy. "But it's Fantasy! You don't have to do any research." I have a good friend who references anatomical models of Pegisae (I haven't had Latin in 20 years. This is why I'm married.) My team writes Urban Fantasy. It's a lot like saying, "I just want to do homework until I die."

Don't get me started on dragons. Or my personal fav, Paladins.