Splitting hairs, science fiction vs fantasy.

[sashamerideth]

I think the idea of science fiction's life on other planets can have a good scientific basis. We have a good idea how evolution has worked on this planet. Evolution is a fact, and alternative evolution on a different planet is not just a possibility, but an expectation. There are scintific principles that can be applied to creating new species.

 

[Black Dragon]

Disciplinary Action

Voldermort has been banished.

 

[grahamguitarman]

I think the idea of science fiction's life on other planets can have a good scientific basis. We have a good idea how evolution has worked on this planet. Evolution is a fact, and alternative evolution on a different planet is not just a possibility, but an expectation. There are scintific principles that can be applied to creating new species.

Those same principles are often used by fantasy authors to make their creatures more realistic too these days!

You could come up with a speculative scientific theory for vampires, complete with evidence and comparative examples of real world creatures - it doesn't actually make vampires stories any less of a fantasy!

Faster than light travel, wormholes and alien cultures are just wishful thinking, painting pseudo science over them doesn't make them any more real.

I'm not criticising Science Fiction for this, at the end of the day they are in the same business as us - writing fantastic stories, its just that they use the veneer of science to make their fantasies seem more acceptable.

 

[JCFarnham]

Those same principles are often used by fantasy authors to make their creatures more realistic too these days!

You could come up with a speculative scientific theory for vampires, complete with evidence and comparative examples of real world creatures - it doesn't actually make vampires stories any less of a fantasy!

Faster than light travel, wormholes and alien cultures are just wishful thinking, painting pseudo science over them doesn't make them any more real.

I'm not criticising Science Fiction for this, at the end of the day they are in the same business as us - writing fantastic stories, its just that they use the veneer of science to make their fantasies seem more acceptable.

Hence my love of the term Speculative Fiction

 

[Anders Ämting]

I will say this, anyway: My approach to fantasy races is way closer to sci-fi then common fantasy. These days I find stuff like elves and orcs and dragons to be a bit uncreative, so I tend to treat my non-humans as if they were alien creatures instead.

 

[Steerpike]

I think Star Wars is fantasy set in space. It is not science fiction, in my opinion. There is not even an attempt, at least in the films, to provide a scientific underpinning for anything. Sure, they retconned the mitichlorians, but even that is very thin. Some of the novels do a better job of bringing in science fiction elements, but I view the films, particularly the three original ones, more as fantasy than anything. Fantasy does not have to be set in a medieval world.

 

[JCFarnham]

Fantasy does not have to be set in a medieval world.

Quite right!

 

[SeverinR]

Imo the basis for how something works makes the difference between Sci-fi and Fantasy.

Dragon breaths a ball of fire into a building it explodes vs Space craft fires glowing missles into building it explodes.
Twisting of nature(dragon) fires an element of distruction vs engineering feat(ship) firing a technological missle of destruction.

Science is sci-fi, nature/magic made is fantasy.
Some sci-fi does have fantasy, the "force" of Star wars is magical based(psi magic). I believe fantasy can have science in it also.(Steampunk)

If magic battles science in a story, I would think it would be depending on what the current norm is. If magic is reality and science is trying to take over, it would be fantasy. If Science is the normal and magic is trying to break out, then it might be Sci fi.
Sci fi tends to be in the future and fantasy the past, but that is not even set in stone.

Pern that I have read so far is Fantasy, they mention the ships but life is pretty much blades and fantasy beasts.

 

[grahamguitarman]

Trying to erect a fence between fantasy and sci-fi by saying one is about magic and one is about spaceships and lasers is ignoring the reality of the fiction that is out there.

The early Pern novels came across as fantasy, but were actually sci fi because the story arc of the series as as a whole examined how cultures can devolve away from the influence of technology. this becomes more clear in the later novels, when they start to rediscover old documents, and to harness the machines left behind on the old spaceships, and the reader discovers the genetic engineering that created the dragons.

There are many other sci-fi stories that don't involve spaceships and lasers, in fact for every sci-fi story about space travel there is one about animals being mutated into monsters by nuclear experiments or mad scientists. There are stories about people jacking into computers, stories purely about robots - even ones set in a contemporary world. There are stories about people being supplemented by organic implants to give them enhanced powers, stories about time travel, and so on.

On our side of the fence, published writers are also more adventurous in their scope. I've read fantasy novels with lasers and robots, time travel, mad scientists and intelligent computers, and novels where magic is explained in a scientific way with the laws of physics governing what is or isn't possible. Even back in the sixties/seventies Moorcock was writing fantasy novels with time travel, multiverses and many types of modern vehicles such as steam trains, aeroplanes ect. In fact most of his career has been spent challenging the stereotypes of fantasy writing.

The most creative artists are the ones who don't accept barriers and aren't afraid to look at things from a new angle - this applies to writers, musicians and painters/sculptors. The minute you say you won't do something because it is too much like sci-fi or fantasy or whatever, you hamstring yourself as an artist!

So I ask, where is this imaginary fence and why do we even need it?

BTW Steam punk isn't fantasy with science added in. Steampunk is specifically set in a Victorian setting with mad scientists and steam propelled inventions. There are some occasional fantasy elements to it, but mostly it's inspired by the science fiction of Jules Verne, HG Wells and the horror of HP Lovecraft, but written from a modern writers perspective. I'm writing a Steampunk/Fantasy novel, but it is very much a fusion, and not true Steampunk at all - but then maybe I'll redefine what Steampunk is .

 

[JCFarnham]

Steampunk is traditionally victorian era. The main reason so much of it is victorian is that the forefathers of the genre living in the era were actually trying to write contemporary fantasy fiction, just so happens that people were so taken by the aesthetics that they carried on the victorian theme. Ive seen western steampunk, fantastical steampunk, steampunk with a very magical realism twist.. well the list goes on.

So yeah, Steampunk isn't mutually exclusive to a Victorian aesthetic, but that's its origins.

Anywho, just wanted to see that clarified

 

[grahamguitarman]

Steampunk is traditionally victorian era. The main reason so much of it is victorian is that the forefathers of the genre living in the era were actually trying to write contemporary fantasy fiction, just so happens that people were so taken by the aesthetics that they carried on the victorian theme. Ive seen western steampunk, fantastical steampunk, steampunk with a very magical realism twist.. well the list goes on.

So yeah, Steampunk isn't mutually exclusive to a Victorian aesthetic, but that's its origins.

Anywho, just wanted to see that clarified

No its not exclusive to a Victorian Aesthetic but it is mainly Victorian era (even the western stuff is largely victorian era) ie early industrial age.

My point was that to describe steampunk as fantasy with some science is wide of the mark - Steampunk is primarily sci-fi not fantasy, albeit a very rose tinted sci fi based on steam and difference engines.

 

[sashamerideth]

No its not exclusive to a Victorian Aesthetic but it is mainly Victorian era (even the western stuff is largely victorian era) ie early industrial age.

My point was that to describe steampunk as fantasy with some science is wide of the mark - Steampunk is primarily sci-fi not fantasy, albeit a very rose tinted sci fi based on steam and difference engines.

Sorry, my current favorite video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA

Retro-futuristic is one way to think about it, alternate pasts not future predictions.

 

[grahamguitarman]

Sorry, my current favorite video. Just Glue Some Gears On It (And Call It Steampunk) - YouTube

Retro-futuristic is one way to think about it, alternate pasts not future predictions.

Yeah the Gentleman rhymer is fun

 

[JCFarnham]

Retro-futuristic! Nice term

 

[grahamguitarman]

yeah pretty much sums it up

 

[myrddin173]

My favorite definition of "steampunk" is Victorian Era-esque science fiction written by people not from the Victorian Era.

 

[SeverinR]

The only thing close to steampunk I read was fantasy that had it in it, my mistake.
But it does show that there is no definitive line between sci-fi and fantasy.

Draw a line and there is something that crosses the line.

 

[grahamguitarman]

My favorite definition of "steampunk" is Victorian Era-esque science fiction written by people not from the Victorian Era.

only problem with that definition is that you could say exactly the same about fantasy, eg:

fantasy = medieval fiction written by people not from the medieval era

or even, sci-fi = futuristic fiction by people not from the future LOL

 

[grahamguitarman]

The only thing close to steampunk I read was fantasy that had it in it, my mistake.
But it does show that there is no definitive line between sci-fi and fantasy.

Draw a line and there is something that crosses the line.

absolutely! lines are there to be crossed

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

only problem with that definition is that you could say exactly the same about fantasy, eg:

fantasy = medieval fiction written by people not from the medieval era

Speak for thyself!