stylistic conventions for third person

[buyjupiter]

I was wondering if there had been a stylistic change over the last several years in how you present in-character thoughts.

Normally, I would see:

Just so, Susan thought. Or even, if it's been established that we're in Susan's POV at the moment: Just so.

Lately, however, I haven't really seen that distinction made. So my question: is this a function of the tendency to write close 3rd POV, and that's eliminating any need to distinguish character thoughts from regular narration? Or is this just a stylistic convention that is changing?

I've written a blend of close 3rd as well as a more distant omnipresent narrative voice, and I'm confused as to when I'm supposed to italicize thoughts and when I can just blend it into the narrative. Or if by blending it into the narrative I'm breaking POV.

Thoughts?

 

[Feo Takahari]

Might this be genre-dependent? I don't think I've ever seen italicized thoughts in lit-fic.

 

[JRFLynn]

I write extensively in third person and it didn't sound omnipresent at all. Maybe it came from deep within Susan's psyche, being a hundred percent certain of that matter. I actually italize both inner thoughts as well as fragments I wish to emphasize and it doesn't strike me as off.

Ex: Wilber turned away, face heavy as stone. They never had a chance...

Now, that statement can actually go both ways. Since it's italicized, it can be Wilber's thought or it could be a cold hard fact that those peoples were doomed to begin with. Sometimes it okay to give the script a little freedom and let the reader decide, but thats me. I'm no expert on grammar/punctuation, but that's how I understand it from reading books. Hope that was of some help.

 

[buyjupiter]

@Feo, it very well may be. I don't think that most literary fiction goes into close third person very often. I've read far more omnipresent and distant narratives in literary fiction than I have first person or close third.

@JRFlynn: I came up with a quick example w/Susan. I don't know what she's mentally agreeing with.

I try to italicize thoughts, but if it's something they're processing rather than explicitly thinking about I won't. For example, a MC experiences being a room for the first time vs. thinking about the last time they smelt strawberries. The first would be sensory information and the latter would have emotions tied into the memory somewhere.

I guess it comes down to more of a question about how explicit the thought process is, if it's just sensory info I shouldn't do anything fancy with italics, but if it's more of a concrete thought I should?

 

[Svrtnsse]

In my current WIP I'm often incorporating thoughts as part of the narrative without really making a distinction between the exact thought of the character and the rest of the paragraph. I'm thinking/hoping it becomes clear from the context what's a thought and what isn't. I'm fairly new to this so I'm not sure what the correct term would be for it, but as an example, take this paragraph:

Enar, cheeks burning, stretched out his legs, planted his hands behind him and leaned back. He forced himself to relax and shut his eyes. She was just a woman, just a friendly person; someone nice he'd met who was just hanging out here with him to keep him company. That was it.

The first two sentences are descriptions of what's happening and the last two are his thoughts. I believe it's clear from context, and possibly voice, and I think it works.
I'm not sure if this is completely relevant to the thread, but it's one version of doing it.

EDIT:
I guess this is more showing the reasoning of the character than his actual thoughts, even if they're fairly close.

 

[buyjupiter]

In my current WIP I'm often incorporating thoughts as part of the narrative without really making a distinction between the exact thought of the character and the rest of the paragraph. I'm thinking/hoping it becomes clear from the context what's a thought and what isn't. I'm fairly new to this so I'm not sure what the correct term would be for it, but as an example, take this paragraph:



The first two sentences are descriptions of what's happening and the last two are his thoughts. I believe it's clear from context, and possibly voice, and I think it works.
I'm not sure if this is completely relevant to the thread, but it's one version of doing it.

EDIT:
I guess this is more showing the reasoning of the character than his actual thoughts, even if they're fairly close.

Your style of doing it is what I naturally gravitate towards, but somewhere in the depths of memory there's an English teacher screaming that I'm styling it wrong. I should probably try and find a style guide for the modern genre writer.

 

[Svrtnsse]

Your style of doing it is what I naturally gravitate towards, but somewhere in the depths of memory there's an English teacher screaming that I'm styling it wrong. I should probably try and find a style guide for the modern genre writer.

I may still be doing it wrong, but it feels good.

 

[Ginger Bee]

I guess it comes down to more of a question about how explicit the thought process is, if it's just sensory info I shouldn't do anything fancy with italics, but if it's more of a concrete thought I should?

That is how I write and how I like to read as well. If the thought is a direct quote, like speech but mental instead of verbal, I like italics. The reader immediately understands what is echoing in that character's head. But if it is simply descriptive of the thought, like paraphrasing, then italics would be inappropriate.

 

[buyjupiter]

But if it is simply descriptive of the thought, like paraphrasing, then italics would be inappropriate.

I think this is another way of distinguishing what I was asking. Thank you for the help, I appreciate it very much.

And for those that are curious about style guidelines to this effect, I found a whole lot of nothing official sounding. Just one app writer's blog post about his personal style guidelines.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

It really does come down to personal style - there aren't any official "rules" about this. Personally, I twine thoughts into the narrative, very similarly to Svrt's example. I don't like to use italics. But that's my personal style, and I have no issues when I read authors who use them.

My advice in this case - write naturally, for you and your characters. Since there aren't any training wheels - as I like to refer to writing rules - for this issue, then go with your instincts. If it feels good, then run with it.

 

[Steerpike]

I've written a blend of close 3rd as well as a more distant omnipresent narrative voice, and I'm confused as to when I'm supposed to italicize thoughts and when I can just blend it into the narrative. Or if by blending it into the narrative I'm breaking POV.

Actually, I think the historical viewpoint has been that you don't italicize thoughts in fiction. There are still editors and authors who think doing so immediately marks one as an amateur writer (I don't agree with that view, however). I've seen more italicized thoughts in recent years than I did in the past, and I think some of the stigma against it has gone away. It is more common in fantasy than in other genres, in my experience.

You don't ever have to italicize them if you don't want to. It is perfectly acceptable to present thoughts as normal text. Personally, I don't use italics.

 

[Ginger Bee]

Another thought--when a message is mental, as in telepathy, I would also use (or want to see) italics. For me, this designates a specific word sequence that is occurring, but is not verbal.

As PP noted, though, it is a stylistic choice.

 

[Abbas-Al-Morim]

Brandon Sanderson uses italicized thoughts in his new series. I'm not a fan but it can work.

 

[buyjupiter]

Another thought--when a message is mental, as in telepathy, I would also use (or want to see) italics. For me, this designates a specific word sequence that is occurring, but is not verbal.

As PP noted, though, it is a stylistic choice.

This is kind of why I even noticed it in the first place. I have a magical, talking nose ring and I kept italicizing her voice because it seemed right. Which led me to wonder why I was doing that. Then I thought about the horses in Valdemar (Mercedes Lackey's series) and they do it because they're speaking telepathically. And then I thought of all the times I've seen thought italicized, and I realized I didn't have a clue when to do it and when not to do it.