Unique/Specific details before or after the rough draft?

[Miskatonic]

I could use some advice and personal experiences from you guys on when you start putting in the real specific details of the story.

For example, the story starts out at the harbor of a medieval town, merchants are unloading cargo off of ships onto horse-drawn wagons, and loading new cargo onto the ships.

A father and son load their cargo and take a horse-drawn wagon along a country road to another town and then onto a castle where they are delivering it.

Now I could spend quite a bit of time giving all the little details about what type of ships are there, the little details about them, perhaps some detail about the attire of the merchants or the architecture of the town buildings, etc.

Or I could just focus on the storytelling part, what happens in general, as well as the dialog, and then go back later and start throwing in all the details that make the world more immersive.

Does anyone prefer one over the other?

 

[Svrtnsse]

My thinking is that at the start, it's better to focus on giving the reader the right feel of the world and the story, rather than giving them the right images. Images are difficult, take time, and don't last. Feel is also difficult, but it takes less time, and creates an impression that lasts longer.

I'd go with hinting at the sounds and smells of the place rather than describing the details of the ships. Then again, that's me and it fits with how I like to set things up. It may very well be that this doesn't work for you and that some other way suits you better.

To answer your question: focus on getting the story right first, add the details later.
Reasoning: It may very well be that you'll find that the story doesn't quite work the way you've set it up and you'll have to change the beginning, or scrap it completely. If you've already added all of the little details, that'll be more work going to waste and it'll be a more difficult decision to make.

 

[Chessie]

Give them story first (story always). The main character's moral flaw in action as a hook, setting, and the promise of a good story. Details about the ships are easy to weave into the narrative or you can place them into the dialogue.

 

[Nimue]

I think this depends greatly on the kind of writer you are. When I'm writing, having descriptive passages and a sense of place and environment are very important to me. While a lot does get rewritten, I've had detailed passages that get carried through drafts intact or nearly so. A rough draft can be a resource for detail and descriptive ideas, and it can help you work out world building and atmosphere as well as plot and dialogue.

It does depend on what you want to do, though. Is this shipyard scene a minor one, and do you just want to get through it to the next major plot point? It may just be more efficient to skip the details, maybe leave some notes like [RELIGIOUS DETAIL HERE] or [FOREIGN EXPORT??] Whatever works for you.

 

[Mythopoet]

Unless you have done A LOT of planning and have a really, really clear idea of what your story is about (which is possible) I doubt very much that you will know what specific details will supplement the story during the rough draft stage. So I would say after.

 

[Miskatonic]

Unless you have done A LOT of planning and have a really, really clear idea of what your story is about (which is possible) I doubt very much that you will know what specific details will supplement the story during the rough draft stage. So I would say after.

I do but I still feel like I'd be a painter trying to paint a house by drawing a single window and adding all the detail, instead of getting the roughed sketch of the entire structure and then working from basic to more intricate detail.

That and I don't want to get bogged down with research when I could be working on solidifying the narrative itself.

 

[Miskatonic]

My thinking is that at the start, it's better to focus on giving the reader the right feel of the world and the story, rather than giving them the right images. Images are difficult, take time, and don't last. Feel is also difficult, but it takes less time, and creates an impression that lasts longer.

I'd go with hinting at the sounds and smells of the place rather than describing the details of the ships. Then again, that's me and it fits with how I like to set things up. It may very well be that this doesn't work for you and that some other way suits you better.

To answer your question: focus on getting the story right first, add the details later.
Reasoning: It may very well be that you'll find that the story doesn't quite work the way you've set it up and you'll have to change the beginning, or scrap it completely. If you've already added all of the little details, that'll be more work going to waste and it'll be a more difficult decision to make.

All good points. I could spend a lot of time just getting the details of the ships, the right model for that particular time period, and all these other little details or just establish that the ships are at port and merchants are doing their thing.

More to researching means less time writing, and for me that's not a good thing.

 

[Miskatonic]

I think this depends greatly on the kind of writer you are. When I'm writing, having descriptive passages and a sense of place and environment are very important to me. While a lot does get rewritten, I've had detailed passages that get carried through drafts intact or nearly so. A rough draft can be a resource for detail and descriptive ideas, and it can help you work out world building and atmosphere as well as plot and dialogue.

It does depend on what you want to do, though. Is this shipyard scene a minor one, and do you just want to get through it to the next major plot point? It may just be more efficient to skip the details, maybe leave some notes like [RELIGIOUS DETAIL HERE] or [FOREIGN EXPORT??] Whatever works for you.

The significance of the seaport is pretty easily explained as things progress, it doesn't need a whole lot of time spent on it. But giving the reader a feel of what it would be like walking along the docks of a medieval seaport, and what they might see or hear would certainly add to the sense of immersion.

 

[Nimue]

The significance of the seaport is pretty easily explained as things progress, it doesn't need a whole lot of time spent on it. But giving the reader a feel of what it would be like walking along the docks of a medieval seaport, and what they might see or hear would certainly add to the sense of immersion.

True beans, but keep in mind--it doesn't need to be reader-ready yet. Is it important to you to be immersed in this moment as you're writing it? Is this atmosphere right here something that you want to work on in this draft? Or are you good with leaving that to polish in a later draft? Honestly, either way, the end result would be indistinguishable.

And why am I coming up with advice that I'm utterly incapable of following myself? I am not really this sensible

 

[Miskatonic]

True beans, but keep in mind--it doesn't need to be reader-ready yet. Is it important to you to be immersed in this moment as you're writing it? Is this atmosphere right here something that you want to work on in this draft? Or are you good with leaving that to polish in a later draft? Honestly, either way, the end result would be indistinguishable.

And why am I coming up with advice that I'm utterly incapable of following myself? I am not really this sensible

Lol. Same here. If I followed my own advice I'd have written a few novels by now.

I'm best off just getting as much stuff down as possible that is dedicated to getting as far down the story path as possible, any premature detours will only bring disaster.

 

[Russ]

I think this is a very personal choice and there is no right answer.

Personally I like to do the details in the earliest practical draft. I find it helps get me into the story world, which helps me write.

I also think it makes a difference with your writing style. If you are writing lean, fast paced material, then go with the pacing don't stop. If you are writing a slower more leisurely pace, put in that detail.

 

[Miskatonic]

Very true. Basically I'm trying to bring myself back to reality and realize that I'm a lot better off just writing a fantasy novel or series of novels and not getting my hopes up on creating a graphic novel series. Unless I win the lotto it's a pipe dream and less productive to boot. You have to start putting the detail back in when you don't have the luxury of showing all of it visually.

 

[Heliotrope]

I'm with Nimue. I find that when I am taking the time to describe something, it is because that thing I'm describing is relevant to my character. It explain's my character in some detail, and so then I learn more about my character. When I'm working on my draft of my novel, I have found that as I go, adding more detail in here and there my character develops in unexpected ways.

So, if I was describing the ships, I might describe how the ship reeked of garlic and cow shit, making him nauseous and reminding him of the time he spent in the navy and the isolation and fear he felt aboard the great war ships. These things happen totally randomly, as I add detail into my draft and then I sit back and go "Oh, crap, I had no idea my character was in the navy and has a deep rooted fear of wide open spaces and isolation…." Then i carry on with a much more interesting character.

 

[Incanus]

Maybe I'm not understanding, but it seems to me a fantasy novel (or any kind of novel) would be significantly harder to create than a graphic novel, storywise (not counting the art).

 

[Miskatonic]

Maybe I'm not understanding, but it seems to me a fantasy novel (or any kind of novel) would be significantly harder to create than a graphic novel, storywise (not counting the art).

It would be, but I can't draw to the level I require the story to be depicted at. So unless I have the cash to pay for a group of people to take care of the art part of it, I'm SOL.

I've technically been writing the story out in more of a novel format, just leaving out dialog. I haven't done it in screenplay or storyboard fashion.

 

[Svrtnsse]

Maybe I'm not understanding, but it seems to me a fantasy novel (or any kind of novel) would be significantly harder to create than a graphic novel, storywise (not counting the art).

This is completely off track for the thread, so maybe a new topic would be in order, but why would one be harder than the other? Story is story regardless of medium. The medium just dictates how it's told.

 

[Incanus]

This is completely off track for the thread, so maybe a new topic would be in order, but why would one be harder than the other? Story is story regardless of medium. The medium just dictates how it's told.

I admit I don't know much about graphic novels, but aren't they comparable to a novella in length? That's the only reason--I figure a novel has about 3 to 4 times as many words, therefore more work.

 

[Nimue]

I have the feeling that reduction in writing would be made up for in the work of story boarding, layouts, and art direction. Comic art is not for the faint of heart...

 

[Miskatonic]

I have the feeling that reduction in writing would be made up for in the work of story boarding, layouts, and art direction. Comic art is not for the faint of heart...

True. It would have to be absolutely perfect for it to work. Vinland Saga and Vagabond are two manga series with artists I would kill for to have bring my vision to the page.

Oh well it's nice to dream, but reality shouldn't be neglected.

 

[Miskatonic]

I admit I don't know much about graphic novels, but aren't they comparable to a novella in length? That's the only reason--I figure a novel has about 3 to 4 times as many words, therefore more work.

The majority of the work when all is said in done is in the hands of the artist and any of the assistants under the main artist. Writing has its part but the workload isn't equal. This is why it's commonplace for most graphic novel or manga series to be written and drawn by the same person.