Why is modern fantasy afraid of magic?

[Aldarion]

It seems to me that modern fantasy - especially the on-screen one - is afraid of magic. In Hobbit movies, Black Arrow is replaced by a ballista. In Rings of Power, Sauron gives Celebrimbor the knowledge of... alloys. As if alloys themselves are somehow magical. In the Troy movie, I don't even remember any references to characters having divine lineage, and we definitely don't see the gods taking part in the story.

So why do you think that is the case?

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I honestly have never gotten why, but some people think magicless fantasy is somehow edgier and grittier. Personally, I like to think my team can do gritty, edgy magic pretty deftly, and our next series is going to be an epic fantasy with an autistic girl and a 700lb talking sow.

 

[Aldarion]

epic fantasy with an autistic girl and a 700lb talking sow.

Sounds amazing. Tell me when it is finished!

 

[pmmg]

I suspect that low fantasy is just in at the moment. Maybe because of the success of shows like Game of Thrones and Vikings. Thats okay though, if you are writing something with a lot of magic, it will be the one not like the others. (course there was that whole Harry Potter thing...)

 

[Rexenm]

You forget Perseus in the Clash of the Titans. He doesn’t use his lightning sword till absolutely necessary. He gives it to Draco, and uses it to fight Calibos.

 

[Finchbearer]

Vikings is classed as historical and not fantasy, but includes Norse mythology where there are fantastical elements.

On screen Aldarion I think you’re taking it a bit too literally - we, the viewer, know that there’s magical qualities in the things you describe, but they have been replaced with seemingly non-magical items, or knowledge.

In terms of low fantasy I think it’s generally a BS term. Harry Potter is literally all about magic and spells, and what, just because the world has already been built (as in it’s set in the world as we know it) it’s somehow less fantasy than other fantasies?

I have magic in every single one of my stories, and it presents in different ways. Most of my stories are set in the world as we know it, one is built by me. But I’m not going in giving it a label such as ‘low fantasy’.

 

[Finchbearer]

and our next series is going to be an epic fantasy with an autistic girl and a 700lb talking sow.

I’m sorry but you can’t drop this on us and not tell us more!!

 

[Prince of Spires]

So why do you think that is the case?

I don't think it''s the case at all.

Arguably the most popular fantasy author of today is Brandon Sanderson, and he is all about writing magic. And magic is very prevalent is most other big fantasy novels of the past decade. On screen, besides the Hobbit and Rings of Power, we have the live-action Avatar the Last Airbender coming up on Netflix, which is also all about magic, as is the Witcher. I didn't watch the Wheel of Time series, but I'm guessing there's plenty of magic in there as well.

As for your specific examples, the isn't all that much magic in The Hobbit book either (unless you count Gandal chucking burning pinecones from a tree top). So there wasn't all that much need to put it in. As for Rings of Power, if the lack of magic when forging the rings was the only issue with that series, then you might have a point. As it stands, it's a complete mess that doesn't know what to do with itself. As for Troy, they went with a historical fiction approach. I guess that was mainly to appeal to a broader audience, who tends to shy away from fantasy a bit. It could also have been a budget thing (in all cases by the way). Showing magic usually takes special effects, which cost (extra) money. Even more so in 2004 when Troy came out.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I’m sorry but you can’t drop this on us and not tell us more!!

I will as soon as we have more, promise. Right now, it's a very old story concept that needs some massive updating and revisioning, but we have characters, we know it's going to be a trilogy, and it's going to involve extreme regime change. With magic! We're shooting to get into full production on it before the end of the year. I've also got two more Books of Binding to draft before then, and I write at speed of slug, so send good thoughts and oxygen.

 

[Finchbearer]

I will as soon as we have more, promise. Right now, it's a very old story concept that needs some massive updating and revisioning, but we have characters, we know it's going to be a trilogy, and it's going to involve extreme regime change. With magic! We're shooting to get into full production on it before the end of the year. I've also got two more Books of Binding to draft before then, and I write at speed of slug, so send good thoughts and oxygen.

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It has something strangely familiar about it. Princess Monenoke mixed with His Dark Materials.

 

[Ban]

Once magic is introduced it needs to be balanced, lest it undermines the tale by removing all stakes. It is easier to prevent magic from entering a tale, than to integrate it in a manner that does not lead to obvious plotholes. As for myself, my current tales don't focus on magic or the supernatural, but on fictional cultures, lands, customs and nations. Introducing magic or the supernatural into that mix when the spotlight isn't on them would only complicate what I wish to achieve. Whether or not a fantasy story without any of these elements can still be classified as fantasy is a separate matter.

 

[Aldarion]

Once magic is introduced it needs to be balanced, lest it undermines the tale by removing all stakes. It is easier to prevent magic from entering a tale, than to integrate it in a manner that does not lead to obvious plotholes. As for myself, my current tales don't focus on magic or the supernatural, but on fictional cultures, lands, customs and nations. Introducing magic or the supernatural into that mix when the spotlight isn't on them would only complicate what I wish to achieve. Whether or not a fantasy story without any of these elements can still be classified as fantasy is a separate matter.

But that isn't the question. I myself actually prefer a low-magic setting such as Lord of the Rings or A Song of Ice and Fire.

My question is why are things that are obviously magical in the original story so often replaced with mundane alternatives - e.g. replacing Bard's Black Arrow with a ballista bolt.

 

[Ban]

But that isn't the question. I myself actually prefer a low-magic setting such as Lord of the Rings or A Song of Ice and Fire.

My question is why are things that are obviously magical in the original story so often replaced with mundane alternatives - e.g. replacing Bard's Black Arrow with a ballista bolt.

The question asks "Why is modern fantasy afraid of magic?" Your original post uses adaptations of established works as examples to illustrate your concern, but it does not state that you are specifically interested in those adaptations instead of fantasy as a whole.

Pedantry aside, I don't watch any of these films or series so I am out of my depth. I reckon this is just another instance of Hollywood's general callousness and dullness.

 

[Devor]

I hate to be that guy, but magic on the big screen makes me think of Doctor Strange in the MCU, which is oddly a good reference here.

In his origin movie, they made massive effort to "explain away" the magic as hacking the programming of the universe. They did the same thing with the original Thor movie, making it look like Asgard but sound like alien science, with lots of emphasis on the "we are not gods."

What's interesting though: They stopped doing that, and have totally embraced the magic.

Magic was out, as a fad, in favor of "dark" and "gritty" and "realism." But I don't think it is anymore. There aren't a lot of big screen fantasy projects - they're still really expensive - but there are some. The Witcher, House of Dragon, LucasFilm tried one with Willow. Although they have other things going on than magic, none of them have shied away from their fantasy elements. Like others have said, Middle Earth was always low magic, leaning on the different races and Sauron's corruption for its fantasy. But looking at recent movies, you'd also be remiss to overlook the non-stop slew of live action Disney remakes, many of which relished in their magic and have even added magic that wasn't there in the originals.

So, all told, this isn't something I'm worried about. Hollywood will have its fads - which won't be the same fads we see in novels, by the way - but I don't think there's reason to worry, in the long run, about the staying power of magic in the genre.

 

[Mad Swede]

I think you misunderstand. What some people call classic high fantasy (like the Lord of the Rings, or the Narnia stories) contain relatively little magic. A lot of more modern fantasy works, like the Discworld books, or David Gemmell's books, or David and Leigh Eddings books, or even Joe Abercrombie's books, also contain relatively little magic. Yes, there is magic in these stories and in the settings, but it isn't front and centre and it never really becomes a major plot driver. In that sense things like the Harry Potter books are a bit of an exception.

 

[pmmg]

My question is why are things that are obviously magical in the original story so often replaced with mundane alternatives - e.g. replacing Bard's Black Arrow with a ballista bolt.

Do the Hobbit movies count?

Well...this is fiction on screen as opposed the written word. I cant answer for all of it. I think the trend is just for more grit and less magic answers, but the black arrow, I suspect, just didn't get proper setup. To show it as magic would need be established in the story, and Jackson seemed to want to tell a story about invading orcs and a strange romance instead. That, and show a carnival ride. Maybe he felt it did not fit well with the other pieces he was giving his energy too.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Do the Hobbit movies count?

Well...this is fiction on screen as opposed the written word. I cant answer for all of it. I think the trend is just for more grit and less magic answers, but the black arrow, I suspect, just didn't get proper setup. To show it as magic would need be established in the story, and Jackson seemed to want to tell a story about invading orcs and a strange romance instead. That, and show a carnival ride. Maybe he felt it did not fit well with the other pieces he was giving his energy too.

Honestly, speculative fiction is pretty permeable. Personally, I think that the moment we have a protagonist on a pony setting out on a 'quest,' we have fantasy and only until we find out who is trying to kill who and how.

 

[pmmg]

Do the Hobbit movies count?

That was more to say, did the hobbit movies even set up to be faithful renditions of the book that inspired them? The Black Arrow was hardly the only thing that was very different from the books. Those movies were not as worthy as the effort at LOTR. (IMO)

These are Rhosgobel rabbits.... what even is that?

 

[Finchbearer]

Hmm I think Tolkien wrote a lot of magic into his worlds - it’s just in different forms rather than the typical innate magic.

Magical wizards, magical alloy, magical metal, magical beasts, magical dark Lords, the entirety of Mirkwood, the entire Elven race…the feckin’ rings

And way more that I’m not thinking of.

What constitutes magic?

 

[Rexenm]

I don’t see anything dire about it. When the stakes are high, there are plenty of goons ready to take out the grey area. What we have seen in the past is a creep and crawl, but with more complicated tropes, we see the soldier replaced by the wizard, in some way or another. I think we got to acknowledge the elephant in the room, along with the mouse and its cheese.

The question asks "Why is modern fantasy afraid of magic?" Your original post uses adaptations of established works as examples to illustrate your concern, but it does not state that you are specifically interested in those adaptations instead of fantasy as a whole.

There is a big deal made of these restrictions in one’s mind, but in media a white lie is often the reason behind these facts, that come, and go. When you are free of adversity, you respect it, and then move on.