Ziva and the Book of Job

[larryyff]

Some things to consider!

"Is it wrong"

Wrong is subjective. If you feel uncomfortable with something that you are doing, than you need to define what you believe is right or wrong. From this conversation, I have deduced that you are part of the Christian faith. Therefore, I set this before you (tentatively, since I know religion is a sensitive topic and we shouldn't delve too deeply on personal beliefs on this forum): The Christian Bible says to live by faith. Do you feel that writing this story for public consumption is in line with your faith? That is the question I believe you should ask yourself here. Random people are going to say any written story is wrong or right for inconsistent reasons. What do you believe? If you are part of the faith, pray about it, study texts about it, talk with people of your faith about it. They will give you different answers too, but they may also help you figure out the right questions to ask yourself and discover the answers you really need. Here, it almost sounds like you are seeking approval or permission, which is not really ours to give.

"to write graphic, gory, sexually explicit Christian dark fantasy that is Bible-based?"

I strongly believe this kind of thing already exists in the world. Christian Horror and Christian Erotica are very probably genres. Seek out these stories--books, movies, games. See what you think about them. You are correct in that the Christian Bible has these things in it. It doesn't get talk about often.

On that note, a useful part of a writer's journey is to define their purpose. For example, a while back I defined my purpose as "To create a sense of community among people and a light for someone to hold onto in their darkness." So then, I think you are at least beginning to hash out your purpose. Is it to "Bring to light things that are often forgotten [in the Christian bible]?" Or is there more to it?

Lastly!

From my studies, Job is a fictional character--never actually existed, but I think versions of the story existed before it was included in the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh). It served as a lesson or warning more than history. In that sense, it is really up to you what you want to do with it! However, if you were to write a dark fantasy about, say, the Three Wise Men--I mean, you'd have it set as a fantasy so we are already taking into account that it may take deviations from the original text. But from there, you also need to define for yourself how close you want to be to the original text. In fantasy writing, it's kinda anything goes as long as there is magical/mythical essence.

Based on your response I’m definitely going to use you to review! You ask good questions.
Honestly I don’t share much about my writing “style”. It’s hard to describe. As a person who believes in God and that He has a son named “Jesus” and there is the entity referred to as the Holy Spirit, I’ve been led to start writing a book every time I get a nudge from the Holy Spirit on certain topics.
My Dutch Christian reformed lifelong church goer parents HATED my 70-book series saying there is no way God could have inspired them with the language you use.
They never said shit but they said “oh shoot” instead
For my purpose I’ll let the public decide. It’s like Noah’s ark: he was told to build a crazy thing and it changed the world. I’m not saying my books will change the world like that but I do believe they will be used to reach an audience the church and religion can’t, but should, be reaching.
I’m fully recovered from addictions to cocaine and porn and the flashbacks I share in both the 70-book series and the Ziva series reflect such. Most church members don’t want to hear or read about that aspect of humanity but once again they should because that is an overlooked underutilized section of society.
Enough preaching sorry. Let me get to your website and let’s do business.

 

[Fyri]

On a side note: all three books in this series have the same type format where it goes from 21st century to Bible dark fantasy and back again.

Normally, I don’t tend toward Adult fiction (it usually means sex/drugs/boring adult stuff that my heart gets no joy from) but this concept intrigues me.

It's like asking the question "If you could go back in time to glimpse any historical event, what would you choose?" Events in religious texts are often mentioned in responses. You have a lot of things you could do with this set up!

Scratch that, because I am not steering you right.

I dont think your work is ready for an editor. I think you need to seek and gain feedback on your writing and work to improve it a bit before its worth sending $$$ to an editor. There are many peer review and critiques sites out there. Here at MS, you might get some reviews, but you would get a larger number of them on some other sites. Scribophile is one.

Adding on to this, how much self-editing have you done? Before you ask too many others to edit your work, it is useful to make sure you have gone through and fixed everything you can on your own first. You don't want someone to suggest something you already planned to do and then miss something else because they were distracted by the other thing. Especially if you are paying for someone, you want to set them (and yourself) up for success! Juuuust in case you weren't already doing this!

Betas and editors are much happier and able to help with a polished third draft rather than a rougher first draft. (You say this is already published, but that says nothing about what draft it is! )

I’m fully recovered from addictions to cocaine and porn and the flashbacks I share in both the 70-book series and the Ziva series reflect such. Most church members don’t want to hear or read about that aspect of humanity but once again they should because that is an overlooked underutilized section of society.

This adds context and purpose! Your target audience may then include "Those who struggle to believe they are also saved/loved/included in the Christian narrative. And the purpose may include "reminding people that the Christian Bible talked about a variety of humans just like us today." You can let the audience decide what they think, but if you want to be successful, you need a plan, and a plan requires that you know your own personal purpose, no matter what shape the product takes in the end.

You have a very ambitious goal, and I think it will take a lot of time and effort to get it where you want it. But you certainly have a good starting point at the least!

 

[larryyff]

Normally, I don’t tend toward Adult fiction (it usually means sex/drugs/boring adult stuff that my heart gets no joy from) but this concept intrigues me.

It's like asking the question "If you could go back in time to glimpse any historical event, what would you choose?" Events in religious texts are often mentioned in responses. You have a lot of things you could do with this set up!


Adding on to this, how much self-editing have you done? Before you ask too many others to edit your work, it is useful to make sure you have gone through and fixed everything you can on your own first. You don't want someone to suggest something you already planned to do and then miss something else because they were distracted by the other thing. Especially if you are paying for someone, you want to set them (and yourself) up for success! Juuuust in case you weren't already doing this!

Betas and editors are much happier and able to help with a polished third draft rather than a rougher first draft. (You say this is already published, but that says nothing about what draft it is! )


This adds context and purpose! Your target audience may then include "Those who struggle to believe they are also saved/loved/included in the Christian narrative. And the purpose may include "reminding people that the Christian Bible talked about a variety of humans just like us today." You can let the audience decide what they think, but if you want to be successful, you need a plan, and a plan requires that you know your own personal purpose, no matter what shape the product takes in the end.

You have a very ambitious goal, and I think it will take a lot of time and effort to get it where you want it. But you certainly have a good starting point at the least!

Trust me. I’ve rewritten each Ziva book at least five times I’ve finished it then decided to go back and change the intro scene then go back and elaborate on the intro scene then replaced that intro for another intro scene altogether

I’m finally at the point where I am comfortable with all three Ziva books except for getting the professional editor to go through and help with scene transitions, using the correct verb tense and tidying up and clarifying parts of the stories that read good in my eyes but may lose the reader.

I’m terms of purpose yes, I’d love my 70-book series to get into adoption agencies (I’m African American and was adopted into a white Dutch family at birth), addiction recovery centers and prison/prison ministry as well as becoming required reading material for human service orientated classes in colleges and THOSE ideals are what make my job more harder to find a target audience.

I wrote my autobiography in two versions (base and explicit). Some liked the base but the prisoners preferred to read the explicit version. Both focused on my journey and highlighted the presence and planning of God through it all (whether I realized it or not) but was able to reach different audiences differently.

And yes part of the purpose is to show the Bible is simply a collection of historically accurate manuscripts that chronicle the interaction between God and humanity based on actual events and credible eyewitness accounts.

The wording is what gets Christians while non-Christian’s tend to not be bothered by some of my titles such as a book that talks about Gods purpose for sex called “Life with a Dick is Hard” and other titles I don’t want to mention here.

Soooo I’m thinking I need an editor and a planner and a publisher and a marketer and a…

 

[larryyff]

Oh maybe you misconstrued what I was saying, it’s the only specifically Biblical retelling of sorts that I’ve personally read - there are plenty others around, take a look.

I’ve read lots of other retellings, more of the Greek mythology type.

I’ll also add that I am not of the Christian persuasion, and I still enjoyed reading it, if that’s of any use.

Here’s a “retelling and gap filling” from book two “Ziva and the Book of Samuel” that mentions God and king David directly (I broke the excerpt up to shorten it) that Christian’s hate and non Christian’s like and are drawn to (not necessarily for the God reference though..but drawn to regardless):

David is standing next to her. He is walking towards Goliath. Ziva follows a safe distance behind him because even though she can’t die in real life, she can still “die” in the vision and it would end. She wants to play it as safe as possible so she can see this one through.
David is calmly walking towards Goliath. He stops to grab maybe 4 or 5 stones and puts one in what she knows to be a slingshot. He stops within 50 yards of the giant.
Goliath sees him and is pissed!
“Are you fucking serious? I offer to go one-on-one with any man from your army and you send this boy? Who in the fuck do you think I am? Do you know who I am and what I’ve done?” As he says this, he waves one of his massive arms in a sweeping gesture and says, “I’ve killed monsters and men all across the world…”
As he sweeps his arm, everywhere he sweeps has become what looks like a forest. She peers into the scene without entering.
Goliath is on one knee, looking at the ground. A pack of rather large wolves are circling him. He sees the leader and the rest of them as they make their presence known one at a time…..
…
Goliath gets down on all fours and growls. The growl is so intimidating the pack, who have faced large, intimidating prey before, leaves their fallen leader and retreats.
Goliath stands, laughs and walks up to the dead wolf. He picks it up and with one, quick motion, completely tears the head off and gently sets it down next to him.
He then grabs the headless body by the hind legs into the air and enjoys a drink of fresh blood. He gets slightly irritated when the blood stops running at a nice, drinkable pace, so with one hand firmly grasped on one of the hind legs, he places his other hand in front of it and begins to squeeze in a forward motion.
He is squeezing the wolf carcass like someone would if they were trying to get the last bit of tooth paste out of a tooth paste tube.
Watching some of the wolf’s inner organs and blood get funneled out the hole where the head used to be and hearing the sounds of bones being cracked is disgusting! She turns away, leaving him to enjoy his snack.
When he’s done with his drink he shakes the limp carcass. He shakes it and then peers inside it as though he’s missed something.
He stretches the neck-hole open and with surgical precision, reaches inside the torso and stops his rummaging around to give a gentle tug. The very invasive procedure is successful. He smiles as he holds what he was looking for between his thumb and index finger: the heart.
Even though the organ is no longer functioning, it’s from a very fresh kill so it’s still a healthy heart full of well-exercised, tight muscles. He has to spend quite a bit of time chewing to finish it off.
Content with that course of his meal, he flings the flattened, blood-drained carcass through the woods like a chicken bone and prepares for dessert.
He now turns his attention to the wolf head and pulls out a sharp knife. With the heavy base of the knife, he delicately taps one time on the skull then peels the skull bone away from the brain like he was peeling a boiled egg.
He smiles a bloody smile, looks at the brain in his hand and uses the tip of his blade to get a piece of skull bone away from it. The piece of skull falls to the ground. He inspects the treat in his palm for more bones and without finding any, he tosses it into his mouth.
This portion of his meal won’t take as long to devour. A couple of chews through the soft, grey matter and it slides smoothly down the hatch.
Meanwhile, the wolves have moved a safe distance away and are staring in his direction. The leaderless pack has watched everything from the shadows and regrouped, contemplating a revenge attack.
All thoughts of getting revenge though are squelched when Goliath cups his mouth with his bloody hands and lets out an extremely loud wolf howl. It was as though eating the wolf heart gave him some sort of mystical power to imitate his victim’s howl and for a couple of seconds, the couple of seconds he was howling, it looked as though his head and upper torso had transformed into that of the dead wolf as well.
The eerie resemblance in both the physical characteristics of their leader and the spot-on mimicking of his howl the giant has temporarily taken on do not go unnoticed by the pack. They pause with their ears pricked and their heads cocked to the side in disbelief.
After the initial shock, they immediately retreat at full-speed. As they fade away into the darkness, the scene returns to the battlefield…
David now has his slingshot loaded with a stone and is shouting something about God while running full-speed towards Goliath.
Instinctively, the large warrior carrying Goliath’s shield hands it to him. Goliath is furious and insulted. He takes the shield and with one swing of it, he slices through the man’s ribcage almost tearing his torso in half.
David is closing in on him and Ziva is in a light-paced jog trying to keep up at a safe distance. She can feel his excitement and confidence. So young and confident, that’s unusual, but I get it, she says to herself as she smiles from a new-found confidence.
Goliath takes his shield and slings it like a Frisbee towards the Israelite army, decapitating one man, half-decapitating the soldier next to him as the shield has lost some of its momentum and lodges itself in the side of the face of the third victim who was in shock and unable to move out of the way.
He stands his ground.
He grabs no weapon.
David is within distance and slings a stone at Goliath and cracks him in the middle of his forehead. She knew this would happen, but she forgot about what comesnext…
Goliath stumbles while holding his head and falls to the ground, his feet are twitching. David immediately unsheathes the giant’s sword and says to the semi-conscious Goliath, “This kill is for God!” as he slices into the giant’s neck. Four more heavy strikes in the same spot and the head is completely severed from the body.
She stands beside him as he grabs the large head by its matted, bloody curls and drags it back towards the Israelite army. Before he can get all the way back to the Israelite frontline, they have begun to shout and attack the opposing army which has already started to retreat.
David and Ziva take a break in his tent. He is excited and just keeps staring at the head. That’s his trophy. He is so busy trying to prop it up in his tent, he is unaware of the presence of a very official-looking, highly-decorated army officer who has been standing at the door of the tent observing David’s bizarre ritual in silence and disgust mixed with a little bit of awe.

 

[Fyri]

Trust me. I’ve rewritten each Ziva book at least five times I’ve finished it then decided to go back and change the intro scene then go back and elaborate on the intro scene then replaced that intro for another intro scene altogether

I’m finally at the point where I am comfortable with all three Ziva books except for getting the professional editor to go through and help with scene transitions, using the correct verb tense and tidying up and clarifying parts of the stories that read good in my eyes but may lose the reader.

I’m terms of purpose yes, I’d love my 70-book series to get into adoption agencies (I’m African American and was adopted into a white Dutch family at birth), addiction recovery centers and prison/prison ministry as well as becoming required reading material for human service orientated classes in colleges and THOSE ideals are what make my job more harder to find a target audience.

I wrote my autobiography in two versions (base and explicit). Some liked the base but the prisoners preferred to read the explicit version. Both focused on my journey and highlighted the presence and planning of God through it all (whether I realized it or not) but was able to reach different audiences differently.

And yes part of the purpose is to show the Bible is simply a collection of historically accurate manuscripts that chronicle the interaction between God and humanity based on actual events and credible eyewitness accounts.

The wording is what gets Christians while non-Christian’s tend to not be bothered by some of my titles such as a book that talks about Gods purpose for sex called “Life with a Dick is Hard” and other titles I don’t want to mention here.

Soooo I’m thinking I need an editor and a planner and a publisher and a marketer and a…

XD I totally get that need for an "everything." Being successful in self-publishing is hard!

 

[Finchbearer]

Here’s a “retelling and gap filling” from book two “Ziva and the Book of Samuel” that mentions God and king David directly (I broke the excerpt up to shorten it) that Christian’s hate and non Christian’s like and are drawn to (not necessarily for the God reference though..but drawn to regardless):

David is standing next to her. He is walking towards Goliath. Ziva follows a safe distance behind him because even though she can’t die in real life, she can still “die” in the vision and it would end. She wants to play it as safe as possible so she can see this one through.
David is calmly walking towards Goliath. He stops to grab maybe 4 or 5 stones and puts one in what she knows to be a slingshot. He stops within 50 yards of the giant.
Goliath sees him and is pissed!
“Are you fucking serious? I offer to go one-on-one with any man from your army and you send this boy? Who in the fuck do you think I am? Do you know who I am and what I’ve done?” As he says this, he waves one of his massive arms in a sweeping gesture and says, “I’ve killed monsters and men all across the world…”
As he sweeps his arm, everywhere he sweeps has become what looks like a forest. She peers into the scene without entering.
Goliath is on one knee, looking at the ground. A pack of rather large wolves are circling him. He sees the leader and the rest of them as they make their presence known one at a time…..
…
Goliath gets down on all fours and growls. The growl is so intimidating the pack, who have faced large, intimidating prey before, leaves their fallen leader and retreats.
Goliath stands, laughs and walks up to the dead wolf. He picks it up and with one, quick motion, completely tears the head off and gently sets it down next to him.
He then grabs the headless body by the hind legs into the air and enjoys a drink of fresh blood. He gets slightly irritated when the blood stops running at a nice, drinkable pace, so with one hand firmly grasped on one of the hind legs, he places his other hand in front of it and begins to squeeze in a forward motion.
He is squeezing the wolf carcass like someone would if they were trying to get the last bit of tooth paste out of a tooth paste tube.
Watching some of the wolf’s inner organs and blood get funneled out the hole where the head used to be and hearing the sounds of bones being cracked is disgusting! She turns away, leaving him to enjoy his snack.
When he’s done with his drink he shakes the limp carcass. He shakes it and then peers inside it as though he’s missed something.
He stretches the neck-hole open and with surgical precision, reaches inside the torso and stops his rummaging around to give a gentle tug. The very invasive procedure is successful. He smiles as he holds what he was looking for between his thumb and index finger: the heart.
Even though the organ is no longer functioning, it’s from a very fresh kill so it’s still a healthy heart full of well-exercised, tight muscles. He has to spend quite a bit of time chewing to finish it off.
Content with that course of his meal, he flings the flattened, blood-drained carcass through the woods like a chicken bone and prepares for dessert.
He now turns his attention to the wolf head and pulls out a sharp knife. With the heavy base of the knife, he delicately taps one time on the skull then peels the skull bone away from the brain like he was peeling a boiled egg.
He smiles a bloody smile, looks at the brain in his hand and uses the tip of his blade to get a piece of skull bone away from it. The piece of skull falls to the ground. He inspects the treat in his palm for more bones and without finding any, he tosses it into his mouth.
This portion of his meal won’t take as long to devour. A couple of chews through the soft, grey matter and it slides smoothly down the hatch.
Meanwhile, the wolves have moved a safe distance away and are staring in his direction. The leaderless pack has watched everything from the shadows and regrouped, contemplating a revenge attack.
All thoughts of getting revenge though are squelched when Goliath cups his mouth with his bloody hands and lets out an extremely loud wolf howl. It was as though eating the wolf heart gave him some sort of mystical power to imitate his victim’s howl and for a couple of seconds, the couple of seconds he was howling, it looked as though his head and upper torso had transformed into that of the dead wolf as well.
The eerie resemblance in both the physical characteristics of their leader and the spot-on mimicking of his howl the giant has temporarily taken on do not go unnoticed by the pack. They pause with their ears pricked and their heads cocked to the side in disbelief.
After the initial shock, they immediately retreat at full-speed. As they fade away into the darkness, the scene returns to the battlefield…
David now has his slingshot loaded with a stone and is shouting something about God while running full-speed towards Goliath.
Instinctively, the large warrior carrying Goliath’s shield hands it to him. Goliath is furious and insulted. He takes the shield and with one swing of it, he slices through the man’s ribcage almost tearing his torso in half.
David is closing in on him and Ziva is in a light-paced jog trying to keep up at a safe distance. She can feel his excitement and confidence. So young and confident, that’s unusual, but I get it, she says to herself as she smiles from a new-found confidence.
Goliath takes his shield and slings it like a Frisbee towards the Israelite army, decapitating one man, half-decapitating the soldier next to him as the shield has lost some of its momentum and lodges itself in the side of the face of the third victim who was in shock and unable to move out of the way.
He stands his ground.
He grabs no weapon.
David is within distance and slings a stone at Goliath and cracks him in the middle of his forehead. She knew this would happen, but she forgot about what comesnext…
Goliath stumbles while holding his head and falls to the ground, his feet are twitching. David immediately unsheathes the giant’s sword and says to the semi-conscious Goliath, “This kill is for God!” as he slices into the giant’s neck. Four more heavy strikes in the same spot and the head is completely severed from the body.
She stands beside him as he grabs the large head by its matted, bloody curls and drags it back towards the Israelite army. Before he can get all the way back to the Israelite frontline, they have begun to shout and attack the opposing army which has already started to retreat.
David and Ziva take a break in his tent. He is excited and just keeps staring at the head. That’s his trophy. He is so busy trying to prop it up in his tent, he is unaware of the presence of a very official-looking, highly-decorated army officer who has been standing at the door of the tent observing David’s bizarre ritual in silence and disgust mixed with a little bit of awe.

In my readers eye you are doing far more telling than showing.

 

[larryyff]

In my readers eye you are doing far more telling than showing.

Like I said I’m not sure how this will all play out but being able to have a 21st century story with a modern day family who has a mom who slips off into a meditative state when she is doing private Bible studies at night is a significant thing.
Most Christian movies I’ve come across don’t want to show anything worldly or have any reference to cussing or drinking or anything that can be considered “immoral or umpire. Why? Why can’t a movie or book have a main character who grew up in the streets and not only reflects on her life from time to time with no filter (she didn’t go through it with a filter) but since she’s familiar with violence has dark fantasy dreams that kinda reflect the atmosphere she grew up in?
What I’ve done is taken that part of society that is considered immoral and dirty and told one of their stories while incorporating the Bible into it. If you read the book you’ll see she is a modern business woman who doesn’t talk with “thou” and “whosoever” but she’s still human. A human whose view matters. A human who can experience the Bible and a relationship from a different place than having grown up in the church and never done a bad thing in her life.
To be honest I don’t watch Christian movies. They bore me and they wreak of hypocrisy: life is pretty much good and I may have had some problems but I won’t talk about the realities of my problems because I’m Christian and I have to keep it clean. Why is that? Why is reflecting on a life of chaos and the use of cuss words considered foul and dirty and unchristian like?
I may have touched on this before that the church is missing opportunities to really get to know people who are out there and going through it by letting them know “we understand you but please don’t use that dirty talk anywhere near us because we’re clean over here”

I know I rambled and I hope you didn’t take anything personal it’s just I’m thinking maybe it’s the season to tell stories in detail in both modern day humans lives and Bible era human lives that may not be so pretty and may not use “proper Christian and religious wording….but they matter all the same.
Storytelling brings people together. The Bible is a collection of stories designed to unite people from all walks of life and tie their stories in with other humans no matter how immoral they may seem. I’ll show you a modern day flashback that’s based on my and my wife’s life from one of the books to show you the importance of “urban storytelling” in Christian movies.
Not sure how to do it here so I’ll do it in a different reply.

 

[Queshire]

"Telling" and "showing" in this case is a reference to the common bit of writing advice that states that it is generally better to show rather than tell.

Telling includes such things as, "Goliath sees him and is pissed!" You are telling the reader what Goliath is feeling.

Showing is using actions, character speech and description to suggest something, but ultimately leaving the reader to come to the conclusion that Goliath is, indeed, pissed.

 

[larryyff]

"Telling" and "showing" in this case is a reference to the common bit of writing advice that states that it is generally better to show rather than tell.

Telling includes such things as, "Goliath sees him and is pissed!" You are telling the reader what Goliath is feeling.

Showing is using actions, character speech and description to suggest something, but ultimately leaving the reader to come to the conclusion that Goliath is, indeed, pissed.

Ahhhhh! I’ll have to share that gem with my editor! You see I’m not a polished writer or author. I’ve just been writing as God has inspired me to. It’s being open to advice from people in the know that will take an unfinished product to a readable piece of literary art.
Man! I never thought about that but the minute I read what you said I instantly saw where I could use descriptions in his body language or describe how “his eyes slant and his shoulders get tense…” as an example. So thanks to you and the member who brought it to my attention. I’m not sure who is who yet but double thanks to both of you!

 

[larryyff]

In my readers eye you are doing far more telling than showing.

I responded to what I thought you were saying and when another member pointed out what you meant it made more sense. I’m not familiar with the writing terms showing and telling in a writers world. I thought you just meant atorytelling. My bad. I now see I rambled quite a bit off topic and I’m actually embarrassed I didn’t know. The other member clarified it for me and made the lightbulb go off so I gotta thank both of you. When my editor and I meet this week I’ll be sure to mention how I want to change some things to make them more about show then tell (if she doesn’t mention it first ).

 

[Lynea]

Question: have you ever read a Bible-based fantasy? There are some good examples out there.

I think, just from a marketing standpoint, that you don't want your target audience to be 'the Christian' audience. Generally speaking, I can’t see this series being successful under that kind of labeling. I recommend searching for different ways to say bible-based dark fantasy because that combination of words--for me especially-- is an immediate turn-off.

Perhaps you should market it in the vein of faith-based horror or ancient retellings, or something without the #Christian marketing label. From your thread posts, I gather that your intended audience isn't a traditional 'goody two shoes' type audience anyway so why bother trying to sell them?

If you truly wish to market to the Christian audiences, then you would have to reinvent the whole concept for it to be successful or even taken seriously.

 

[larryyff]

Question: have you ever read a Bible-based fantasy? There are some good examples out there.

I think, just from a marketing standpoint, that you don't want your target audience to be 'the Christian' audience. Generally speaking, I can’t see this series being successful under that kind of labeling. I recommend searching for different ways to say bible-based dark fantasy because that combination of words--for me especially-- is an immediate turn-off.

Perhaps you should market it in the vein of faith-based horror or ancient retellings, or something without the #Christian marketing label. From your thread posts, I gather that your intended audience isn't a traditional 'goody two shoes' type audience anyway so why bother trying to sell them?

If you truly wish to market to the Christian audiences, then you would have to reinvent the whole concept for it to be successful or even taken seriously.

You are correct with recognizing my problem: I love God and I love the direction He has me taking these books but I absolutely hate the “Bible based dark fantasy” label and I actually despise the current state of the church…but the reality is my series is Bible based but doesn’t appeal to your average person claiming to be a Christian.

I like the suggestion of categorizing it under a different genre. Thanks. I also can’t stand Christian movies and producers options in that category: goofy two shows who want to paint Christianity in a perfect light and not deal with or portray the realities of the world.

Based on your response I’ll start with a different classification/genre for my books and I’ll stop trying to reach Christian producers and bloggers (most of the time I hit dead ends with them anyways).

 

[Lynea]

Cool! I've seen an indie author who has, like, a biblical skeleton for a story, but he doesn't market it as a faith-based fantasy. And there are tons of fairly successful authors that do that. But yeah, I can’t see you getting very far trying to sell yourself as a Christian author. And that's okay There's a niche.

 

[larryyff]

Cool! I've seen an indie author who has, like, a biblical skeleton for a story, but he doesn't market it as a faith-based fantasy. And there are tons of fairly successful authors that do that. But yeah, I can’t see you getting very far trying to sell yourself as a Christian author. And that's okay There's a niche.

I’m on it!

 

[larryyff]

Question: have you ever read a Bible-based fantasy? There are some good examples out there.

I think, just from a marketing standpoint, that you don't want your target audience to be 'the Christian' audience. Generally speaking, I can’t see this series being successful under that kind of labeling. I recommend searching for different ways to say bible-based dark fantasy because that combination of words--for me especially-- is an immediate turn-off.

Perhaps you should market it in the vein of faith-based horror or ancient retellings, or something without the #Christian marketing label. From your thread posts, I gather that your intended audience isn't a traditional 'goody two shoes' type audience anyway so why bother trying to sell them?

If you truly wish to market to the Christian audiences, then you would have to reinvent the whole concept for it to be successful or even taken seriously.

I just updated the Book info and categorized it as “domestic dark-fantasy”. Your thoughts?

 

[Fyri]

Mm. This convo reminds me of Evanescence's Amy Lee. She is Christian and writes many Christian songs, but did not want the label of Christian. Society has created a new connotation for it that does not encompass all that it is.

Ancient retelling has a nice ring. Idk if it is a great idea to bury the hatchet though. It being very biblical based is a major part of the make-up. I'm playing with the idea of Dark Retelling of the Book of Job, though it feels like a mouthful and may still turn your target audience away.

However--genre isn't everything. Your own bio is strong and can help you a lot. Marketing is also figuring out what to say first and how to say it.

 

[larryyff]

Mm. This convo reminds me of Evanescence's Amy Lee. She is Christian and writes many Christian songs, but did not want the label of Christian. Society has created a new connotation for it that does not encompass all that it is.

Ancient retelling has a nice ring. Idk if it is a great idea to bury the hatchet though. It being very biblical based is a major part of the make-up. I'm playing with the idea of Dark Retelling of the Book of Job, though it feels like a mouthful and may still turn your target audience away.

However--genre isn't everything. Your own bio is strong and can help you a lot. Marketing is also figuring out what to say first and how to say it.

I went into my kdp account and replaced “Bible based book series” with “domestic, dark-fantasy novella series”.
And yes with the Bible being a major part of all my books (I also have a 70-book series).
I’m looking to go book to film and I’m liking your wording “dark retelling of the book of job” sentence as part of the marketing. Maybe even as part of the book detail section on Amazon if you don’t mind.
Let me get the first professional edit of my 3 Ziva books done in January. As each one gets done I’ll break em down into 8,000 word increments for you to review.
Please keep sending me thoughts in the meantime.
My target audience is actually non Christian. Christians are too much into NOT showing reality in the big screen and I don’t watch them. I actually hate em. They’re boring as shit!!