Wasted Effort

[pmmg]

So...just did an hour and half of research to figure out what kind of tree might be in the climate I am writing in, that also matched my vision, and came to decide that I had found my tree, only to have it written into the story as a bent tree with red leaves... I don't think the characters would even know or care what kind of tree it was specifically, and so.... A lot of wasted effort.

If someone asks, it was an ash tree...but it might be a bit more of a fantasy nature, such as a blood ash tree with healing qualities or such. Maybe it will work itself in later in the story.

Lots of stuff go into this writing thing that never make the page. I see now why Tolkien decided to write the Silmarillion. Why think it all up and never use it?

 

[A. E. Lowan]

This is but a tiny slice of the research that has gone into, and continues to go into, the Books of Binding. It goes toward creating a rich world of murder and magic, and most of it won't make it to the page, but it will be sensed by the reader. No effort in writing is ever wasted. It all counts.

 

[pmmg]

I cant tell what that is, but it looks similar to Scrivener, which I started to use to keep notes. Still a lot of notes in my head that i've not quite put into it.

So far I have pages for Characters, Places, Languages, Currencies, Ship types, Deities believed in, and brief histories that may never make it to the page. It will grow. I am not done yet

I also have a map, which is not quite accurate anymore, but it serves as a guide.

Even though I have Scrivener, I still do most of my writing in notepad. Just old habits.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

This is OneNote, in Dark mode. My computer got stuck in it for a while, and then I just liked it. This file's about 15 years-old and grows pretty much daily.

 

[L.L. Maurizi]

I agree with Lowan.

Even if it doesn't make the page, a lot of your research is what helps you create a world that is more realistic, relatable. and easier to picture and get immersed in.

Picturing details that may never make the page, will help you, the author, have a clearer image, allowing to add three-dimensionality to your world.
Keep it up. Ain't nothing wasted

 

[Penpilot]

Acquiring knowledge is never wasted effort. Maybe it'll help you visualize things better with this story. Maybe it won't. But learning stuff isn't a one shot use sort of thing. What you learn you can use in other stories. A lot of times it's multiple stories.

Also, just doing research in general will help you develop and refine your research methodology. You figure out how to get what you need and how much of it you need. And becoming efficient in executing your research will help you save time and effort in the long run. I find that's the case with writing in general. There are things I used to spend hours and hours and hours on that I now can do in a fraction of that time, whether that's research, planning, or just straight up writing. I find I don't meander as much.

 

[Avery Moore]

Lol! I relate, I relate.

 

[Prince of Spires]

It's definitely related, just like having a search history which would fit the average serial killer...

There's two things I constantly remind myself off (and I also always forget them again):
- make sure it's actual research, and not just procastrination to keep yourself from having to write.
- write it down somewhere.

My notes aren't anywhere close to A. E. Lowan (though I also use OneNote), but I try to keep it written down somewhere. It's easy to forget something, which made a cool detail, or how a character looked. And you might remember it now and tomorrow, but when you're starting the sequel in 6 months time you've probably forgotten most of it.

And writing takes effort for most people. You have to actively chose to write. And if you then give yourself an excuse to browse the internet for half an hour to research some minute detail you're giving yourself an easy excuse not to write.

 

[Ban]

Ah, but which direction do the leaves of the blood red ash tree rustle towards? How old is the tree? What vegetation grows around the tree? What precise tint of red are the leaves? Clearly there's more worldbuilding work to be done pmmg. Looking forward to reading your geneology on this singular red ash tree. /s

 

[pmmg]

Heheh...stop....Its bad enough already....

But if you must know, kind of swirling counter-clockwise, its on barren ground near a cliff face, the leaves are rustic red, and the tree is young. Maybe 20-30 years.

Course I could not use counter-clockwise as a term, as there are no clocks of that nature in the world....so....

 

[Rosemary Tea]

Course I could not use counter-clockwise as a term, as there are no clocks of that nature in the world....so....

Counter-clockwise is widdershins. Clockwise is deosil. No clocks needed to use those words. They predate clocks.

Widdershins and deosil sound much more appropriate to fantasy anyway.

 

[pmmg]

That would work.

Its not really come up which direction something is rotating, but I thought if it did, I might use the prevalent current of sea familiar to all for that. With or against the current in effect.

I was not really serious though.

 

[Rosemary Tea]

That would work.

Its not really come up which direction something is rotating, but I thought if it did, I might use the prevalent current of sea familiar to all for that. With or against the current in effect.

I was not really serious though.

Deosil and widdershins mean with and against the direction of the sun, respectively. Same kind of concept. Clockwise and counterclockwise mean the same thing because a clock face is designed in imitation of a sundial, which naturally follows the sun's direction from east to west.

If your setting is an island where everyone rides boats all the time, sure, the direction of the currents would probably be the way they tell all directions. If it's more land based, then they'd use analogies to something readily seen from land.

 

[Ban]

Deosil and widdershins mean with and against the direction of the sun, respectively. Same kind of concept. Clockwise and counterclockwise mean the same thing because a clock face is designed in imitation of a sundial, which naturally follows the sun's direction from east to west.

If your setting is an island where everyone rides boats all the time, sure, the direction of the currents would probably be the way they tell all directions. If it's more land based, then they'd use analogies to something readily seen from land.

But how many readers know those words? If a writer first has to explain these archaic terms (certainly didn't learn them in my english classes) before using them, a writer has to ask themselves whether or not the words are worth the effort. Depends on the general tone pmmg utilizes.

 

[Rosemary Tea]

Acquiring knowledge is never wasted effort. Maybe it'll help you visualize things better with this story. Maybe it won't. But learning stuff isn't a one shot use sort of thing. What you learn you can use in other stories. A lot of times it's multiple stories.

Also, just doing research in general will help you develop and refine your research methodology. You figure out how to get what you need and how much of it you need. And becoming efficient in executing your research will help you save time and effort in the long run. I find that's the case with writing in general. There are things I used to spend hours and hours and hours on that I now can do in a fraction of that time, whether that's research, planning, or just straight up writing. I find I don't meander as much.

This.

I've written whole scenes and chapters only to end up cutting them. Sometimes research was involved too. Lots of effort went into that.

But if I cut something from the story I'm working on, it's on the back burner to use elsewhere, maybe for a different story, or it shapes my world building, or both. Some examples of scenes I've cut: I wrote a chapter about a group of friends conversing in a tavern, and then got rid of it because everything said in that conversation made more sense to show than tell. But writing that scene gave me great insight into the character dynamics in that group of friends, which I can use to shape the story in subtler ways. And a few lengthy conversations where someone explains exactly how xyz works in this world, but on second thought it doesn't make sense to put it in a conversation (who would realistically listen to that ramble?) and I'd rather have it creep up on the reader more slowly.

 

[Rosemary Tea]

But how many readers know those words? If a writer first has to explain these archaic terms (certainly didn't learn them in my english classes) before using them, a writer has to ask themselves whether or not the words are worth the effort. Depends on the general tone pmmg utilizes.

Widdershins and deosil are actual words that can be looked up in the dictionary if you don't already know them. Words for the prevailing currents would be even more obscure, and it sounds like pmmg intends to make those words up.

When in doubt, I say use actual words, even if they're archaic.

Deosil and widdershins are obscure enough that they wouldn't be taught in an English as a second language class, but they get just enough use in literature that a very well read native English speaker probably will have encountered them. Maybe not frequently enough to remember off the top of their head what those words mean, but enough to think, "Okay, that word looks a little familiar."

 

[pmmg]

I like the term widdershins, I looked it up. 'Against sin' would fit a theme or two as well, but I am not sure if it will show up in the story. I'd not be opposed to making up a word for it. But I do tend to go with stuff I think the characters could reference. An easy one would be current flow, as the sea is kind of locked into it, and many are aware of it.




wid·der·shins
/ˈwidərˌSHinz/
Learn to pronounce

adverb
SCOTTISH
adverb: widdershins; adverb: withershins

1. in a direction contrary to the sun's course, considered as unlucky; counterclockwise.
   "she danced widdershins around him"
   

Origin
early 16th century: from Middle Low German weddersins, from Middle High German widersinnes, from wider ‘against’ + sin ‘direction’; the second element was associated with Scots sin ‘sun’

 

[RiserBurn]

I would challenge the notion that NO effort you make is wasted or useless. There are certainly things I can spend a day on that have zero change of being productive regardless of effort to employ them.

With that said... it will be wasted if you choose never to employ the knowledge you gained. That doesn't have to occur immediately in the context in which you researched it (as nobody possesses the knowledge to use it). Whatever knowledge of the properties, history, geographic spread of the different types of ash may be employed later, maybe even years later. As others have pointed out, if nothing else - YOU know why it's an ash tree, and the process by which it needs to be, with whatever thought experiments that entails, may have second and third order effects beneath the surface that DO manifest on the page.

JM2C.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

We're writers. We do homework for a living. And this is what I do. I write, and I know things. How do I know things? I pack my head full of random crap. None of it is wasted time, because I don't know when in the future I might need to pull out some factoid floating around in the back of my mind. I can't remember my own pets' names, but I can spot a humpback whale on sight, or a BMW 911. So, you read a lot. And I mean a lot. You write even more. This is how it's done. No research, no gleaned knowledge, is ever wasted.

 

[Penpilot]

To me, the knowledge acquired is only a fraction of what someone gains when they practice learning. Knowing how to learn gets applied in all aspects of life, from learning to changing the compressor in your fridge to writing a novel. And I would argue that it's almost impossible not to apply that knowledge in some way. Taking the ash tree example, learning about that tree, whether you realize it or not, changes the way you look at the world. That knowledge will get applied any time you look at or hear someone else talking about trees in general. And you can use that knowledge to extrapolate understanding about other types of trees.

Turning this back towards writing, writing can be a scary thing because we're constantly faced with the fact that we don't know something, whether that's something about real world, the imagined world, and/or the characters within. And having the ability to not only find answers but to know how to ask the right questions is key, IMHO, to taking a story to where it needs to be. And the only way to acquire this ability is to practice, asking yourself questions, researching answers, and writing using what you learned.