Dystopian fantasy?

[Foxkeyes]

I wonder if people who lived two or three generations back would consider our world a dystopia?

There is a trend that many of the imagined futures humanity will inhabit are dystopian.

 

[Foxkeyes]

This is an excerpt from Nothing To Envy, one of the best books I’ve read hands down, and offers something far stranger than fiction:

They rarely made eye contact when they spoke to us, and I wondered if they believed what they said. What were they really thinking? Did they love their leader as much as they claimed? Did they have enough food to eat? What did they do when they came home from work? What was it like to live in the world's most repressive regime?

If I wanted answers to my questions, it was clear I wasn't going to get them inside North Korea. I had to talk to people who had left— defectors.

Scary.

 

[Foxkeyes]

That's right, I think. There would have to be a LOT of dissatisfaction, verging on desperation, before a society would hand over political power to a cult. Also, the cult would already need to have some political power before taking over. They would need to have lots of followers already, and if they were smart, they would set up a parallel state political structure before taking power, so that the old state would simply dissolve and the new state would be ready to take over. That is what the Nazis did, and it took them some years to establish both a large following and the architecture of the new state (Gauleiters etc).

The story of the road to power of the cult might be interesting, against the backdrop of a failing society. Also, the cult would need to have some pretty extreme policies for there to be widespread opposition to them.

Another point. The cult probably would not be viewed as a "cult" by its followers. As Huey Long once said (and he would know), if fascism ever comes to America, it will come in the form of 100% Americanism.

Or a leader can create a cult around them once they gain power. Stalin, for example.

 

[Finchbearer]

I wonder if people who lived two or three generations back would consider our world a dystopia?

There is a trend that many of the imagined futures humanity will inhabit are dystopian.

I suppose you could ask the question, what constitutes a cult? But then that is a black hole.

Maybe it’s like porn, you know it when you see it. But then if you’ve been completely brainwashed, does it even exist.

 

[Queshire]

*cough* I understand that you want a cult for your dystopia, but you know that not all dystopias are cult based, right?

 

[Finchbearer]

*cough* I understand that you want a cult for your dystopia, but you know that not all dystopias are cult based, right?

Hmmm, I’m not so sure about that.

 

[Queshire]

It is unless you torture the definition of cult to claim that, like, a cyberpunk dystopia's that way because of a cult of capitalism.

 

[Finchbearer]

I mean, yes, you have your extreme cults, the Jonestown’s of the world, then you have political system’s that are a ‘cult of personality’, such as North Korea’s strange brand of totalitarianism, which they see as ‘communism’, then if you want to go further, then, without going into it, you absolutely could. And then I see versions of dystopia that are a breaking down of a society, which you could say are not cultish.

 

[pmmg]

This is an excerpt from Nothing To Envy, one of the best books I’ve read hands down, and offers something far stranger than fiction:

They rarely made eye contact when they spoke to us, and I wondered if they believed what they said. What were they really thinking? Did they love their leader as much as they claimed? Did they have enough food to eat? What did they do when they came home from work? What was it like to live in the world's most repressive regime?

If I wanted answers to my questions, it was clear I wasn't going to get them inside North Korea. I had to talk to people who had left— defectors.

Is this one quote (or two?), and so the regime is North Korea?

While I am sure I could write a story in North Korea, and give it a level of realism that would seem adequate, it would be hard to learn much about life there for the reasons pointed out in the quote. You wont get a lot of real info from those inside, and those who escape all have the common quality of hating it so much they wanted to leave. There is very little in the way of an objective or contested account. Which I suppose means, you are free to make it a lot of things it may not be and no one will know.

North Korea's transformation into a cult of the dictators though was spurred by outside parties. Without Russia and China, this dystopia would not have lasted. And it is known as the hermit kingdom, due to its isolation. Which comes back to, a dystopia like this would be hard to spread. Too many people don't want it. For a western power to descend into this, would take a lot of societal change. Such as what we see in the hunger games, and maze runner and the handmaiden's tale.

To return to Quesh's comment about acceptance. You know, if you have it in you, and want to write it, you have to write it. I find I argue with Quesh about the credibility of stuff often. Some stuff is less credible than others. When we are before the project and looking at how to create it, I think its fair to say, that one you presented would have a harder time with credibility. That's not the same as a finished project. The finished project is already live, and the exercise of questioning it changes. I may find myself asking a lot of questions, but I cant change that that is the story. I can still ask them, and maybe learn lessons for the next one. To say...Hunger games did it, is to ignore that it still raises a lot of questions as to how. I find it very unlikely Hunger Games could ever happen, no community is going to stand by while another is sending their children off to die. If I want to create something that leaves less room for those questions, getting feedback at the early stage is not a bad idea. Sure...it can still be commercially successful even with portions that raise questions.

 

[Queshire]

I mean, yes, you have your extreme cults, the Jonestown’s of the world, then you have political system’s that are a ‘cult of personality’, such as North Korea’s strange brand of totalitarianism, which they see as ‘communism’, then if you want to go further, then, without going into it, you absolutely could. And then I see versions of dystopia that are a breaking down of a society, which you could say are not cultish.

I'm... not entirely sure what you're saying here?

 

[Finchbearer]

I'm... not entirely sure what you're saying here?

There are various definitions of what a cult is.

 

[Queshire]

So is this thread about cults then? Just misnamed or something...?

 

[Finchbearer]

So is this thread about cults then? Just misnamed or something...?

Title of the thread: Dystopian Fantasy?

Post content:
Has anyone or does anyone write in this genre?

I come up with a lot of ideas, just seeds of ideas, but I like the idea of writing a dystopian fantasy story at some point.

I suppose I’m interested in cults and collective behaviour, and how this affects individuals, and to explore this in a fantasy setting would be interesting.

I dunno what more I can say. I wondered if anyone had written a dystopian fantasy with a cult element.

 

[Queshire]

Cool. Specifically focusing on dystopian fantasy with a cult element. That makes things a lot simpler. I had an organization in my setting that I originally decided to have cult elements, but after learning more about how cults actually work I decided that wasn't something I wanted to write.

 

[Finchbearer]

What put you off including a cult element in your writing?

I would want to avoid a Hunger Games type of dystopia. I’d prefer to explore a plot that would consist of an escape / attempted escape of the cult / cult-like regime. Or maybe it would be written as diary entries, or an account from a defector.

What I find interesting about USSR accounts is that the older generation often remember the days before communism, and the youth grow up with it, they know nothing else.

How would could that element be translated into fantasy writing. Is magic outlawed? I thought maybe this type of thing might have been explored by some of you?

 

[pmmg]

Imagine Rasputin as some time of Lich that had survived the Tzars and communism. What type of perspective might he have? And think of the attitudes around him.

 

[Queshire]

Imagine Rasputin as some time of Lich that had survived the Tzars and communism. What type of perspective might he have? And think of the attitudes around him.

Considering how closely he was associated with the guys they revolted against I doubt the commies would want a lot to do with Rasputin. Maybe if they thought he could be useful during the cold war...? Otherwise maybe he could try to do something after the fall of the USSR? Still, at that point you're getting far enough away from the course of history that it's just guessing.

 

[pmmg]

We'll....he'd have been underground for a while. But he seems like a good character to be an undead type.

 

[Queshire]

What put you off including a cult element in your writing?

I would want to avoid a Hunger Games type of dystopia. I’d prefer to explore a plot that would consist of an escape / attempted escape of the cult / cult-like regime. Or maybe it would be written as diary entries, or an account from a defector.

What I find interesting about USSR accounts is that the older generation often remember the days before communism, and the youth grow up with it, they know nothing else.

How would could that element be translated into fantasy writing. Is magic outlawed? I thought maybe this type of thing might have been explored by some of you?

Honestly I have a bad habit of enjoying my villains and wanting them to not be villains. That said though, even with just written characters I'm generally not comfortable with the level of emotional manipulation that comes with cults or how they can just honestly think they're doing the right thing.

Hmm... for one example of how things would be translated to fantasy writing... Well, D&D has some interesting stuff with the gods of the various "evil" races though that's complicated by the fact that the gods are real in those settings and are capable of giving people magic powers. One reason for Orc aggression goes back to a story where the gods drew lots to divide the world up for their followers. Elves got the forests, Dwarves the mountains and Humans the space in-between. When it was the Orc god's turn to pick he saw that there wasn't a space left for the Orcs so he slammed his spear down on the map they were using. Here, and here, and here. Wherever the Orcs conquered would be their divinely allotted space in the world.

 

[Genly]

Dystopian fantasy with a cult element. A nice focus. How about a scenario where a cult of fanatical magicians is plotting their way back into power, lead by a charismatic leader? To avoid this leader sounding a bit too much like Voldemort, maybe he or she really could be charismatic. Charming. Good looking. Able to sell ice to the Inuit. But deeply disturbed. The cult would be trying to find an answer to a real problem (societal disintegration) but coming up with the wrong answer. Like the communists did when they proposed the wrong solution to the grotesque inequality of 19th century England.