Dystopian fantasy?

[Foxkeyes]

My grandmother was born in 1930, Austria, and so grew up with fascism. I don’t know what her beliefs were or what she was told as a child, but she went onto marry a British man and moved away from Austria in the end. I’ve also known quite a few Eastern European folk and I assume many folk lament the loss of the Soviet Union. Going from relying on the state for everything, to then that all collapsing must have been unsurmountable for some of them.

I would certainly agree with the idea that many folk lamented the loss of the Soviet Union.

I experienced this a lot in East Germany a few years after the wall came down. This included some of the younger generation, too.
Many in the West thought that the Eastern peoples were happy to be rid of the Soviets. But it wasn't as black and white as that. One prime example was the fighting over property, when those who'd fled to the West during communism returned and claimed their old property back. These properties had been given to East Germans.

Until now, I'd never thought about using those experiences in a story. But this thread has inspired me.

 

[BearBear]

Sure, I wrote 12 of them. I'm writing one based on the one and only dystopian nightmare just under the surface aka the world we all live in with just a bit of magic thrown in, why not, and the time frame is more like the 70's because there's no computers or cell phones, and it's still possible to live without being connected to the hive mind, you know, the one we're talking with right now.

If anything this current world is even more dystopian and fanciful but I don't feel the need to min/max that part of the story, maybe later. I would hate to have to study current events and culture, yuck. It's the smell.

 

[Prince of Spires]

There is also the dilution of political power that comes with constitutional monarchy.

I am definitely not talking about modern constitutional monarchies. Pretty much all modern western constitutional monarchies are monarchies in name only. We only have a king because we're too lazy to actually elect a president. The king has no real power and very little perceived power.

And in the end, there is always some dilution of power. No one person can govern a whole country all by himself. You always have to delegate certain aspects of your rule. The only question is how do you get those people you delegate power to. In a constitutional monarchy, they tend to be elected. But a dictator will have those same kinds of people, but instead they just get appointed.

But why do we consider North Korea (for instance) a dictatorship, and not just an absolute monarchy? After all, they're in their 3rd generation of hereditary, absolute rule.

I don't think historically speaking people expected specific things from traditional monarchies. The vast majority simply lived their lives and had very little say in the specific type of government they had. Very few people are willing to rise up against their leaders, unless there is some direct cause and impact on their lives. Otherwise, they'll just go about their business and make the best of things.

Putting it all on benevolence at least has a very favorable view of monarchies and how people perceived them.

 

[The Dark One]

I don't think historically speaking people expected specific things from traditional monarchies. The vast majority simply lived their lives and had very little say in the specific type of government they had. Very few people are willing to rise up against their leaders, unless there is some direct cause and impact on their lives. Otherwise, they'll just go about their business and make the best of things.

Putting it all on benevolence at least has a very favorable view of monarchies and how people perceived them.

You're forgetting the divinely appointed order which was the nexus of the church/state relationship for nearly 2000 years.

Most people had no concept of any other possibility.

 

[Aldarion]

Has anyone or does anyone write in this genre?

I come up with a lot of ideas, just seeds of ideas, but I like the idea of writing a dystopian fantasy story at some point.

I suppose I’m interested in cults and collective behaviour, and how this affects individuals, and to explore this in a fantasy setting would be interesting.

I generally prefer dark fantasy or outright grimdark fantasy - say, D.Gray Man for the former, Warhammer 40k for the latter.

 

[Miles Lacey]

The Nazi Seizure of Power is a brilliant and unforgettable book. It's a look at a single, small town. No demagogues, no dictators (except in the far background), just ordinary folk going off the rails.

I read that book. It was fascinating to see how the Nazis exploited the divisions within the town (Northeim) and how they were able to tailor their speeches to match what the locals wanted to hear by the simple practice of charging people to attend their meetings. (Turns out the Nazi Party was broke most of the time so they required speakers to pay their own way. Very quickly they learned which speakers were popular and what people wanted to hear. That played a key role in the extraordinary rise of the Nazis between September 1928 and July 1932.)

I read both the 1st and 2nd editions. The second edition named the town and added a section about what happened after the Nazis took over. It also included information that wasn't available when the first edition was done.

Anyone who has not read it, especially Americans, should try to find a copy. It is disturbing how the events in that book parallel what is happening in many countries now.

 

[The Dark One]

I read that book. It was fascinating to see how the Nazis exploited the divisions within the town (Northeim) and how they were able to tailor their speeches to match what the locals wanted to hear by the simple practice of charging people to attend their meetings. (Turns out the Nazi Party was broke most of the time so they required speakers to pay their own way. Very quickly they learned which speakers were popular and what people wanted to hear. That played a key role in the extraordinary rise of the Nazis between September 1928 and July 1932.)

I read both the 1st and 2nd editions. The second edition named the town and added a section about what happened after the Nazis took over. It also included information that wasn't available when the first edition was done.

Anyone who has not read it, especially Americans, should try to find a copy. It is disturbing how the events in that book parallel what is happening in many countries now.

It also employs the same strategy as internet algorithms to give people more and more radical content until they can tolerate only the same OTT messages in the echo-chambers of choice.

Scary indeed.

 

[Miles Lacey]

It also employs the same strategy as internet algorithms to give people more and more radical content until they can tolerate only the same OTT messages in the echo-chambers of choice.

Scary indeed.

I noticed that as well.

I would also add that if you compare the final years of the Weimar Republic and contemporary American politics and society the parallels are hard to miss but that is a theme best left untouched in case it's too close to discussing contemporary politics.

For me, one of the reasons why I don't read much dystopic fiction is because it reminds me too much of what I saw growing up in low socio-economic neighbourhoods with run down housing, violence, people constantly looking over their shoulders, informants dobbing each other in to social welfare and other government agencies, gangs terrorising locals and police officers who treat everyone as if they're criminals and act accordingly. The only images that were missing were pictures of a Supreme Leader unless you count pictures of Queen Elizabeth II....

 

[skip.knox]

Another place where it is easy to draw parallels is the last days of the Roman Republic. I could recommend the book cleverly titled, The Last Generation of the Roman Republic by Erich Gruen. There's also a more recent take on it called Rubicon. Not sure of the author or how good the book is. Anyway, the fall of the Republic is way more interesting than the so-called fall of the Empire.

 

[Queshire]

Did you know that the Nazis held a degenerate art exhibition? Not really related to anything. It's just such a storybook moment that I have to laugh.

 

[Renè Williams]

I'm sort of working on a set of stories and a world that's on the verge of Dystopia rather then fully in it

 

[The Dark One]

I'm sort of working on a set of stories and a world that's on the verge of Dystopia rather then fully in it

Sounds like real life...

 

[Renè Williams]

Sounds like real life...

There's a reason for that

Utopias are just precursors to Dystopias

 

[Miles Lacey]

Did you know that the Nazis held a degenerate art exhibition? Not really related to anything. It's just such a storybook moment that I have

This was an example of Nazi approved art.

An exhibition showcasing Nazi approved art was held at the same time as an exhibit showcasing degenerate art. To the embarrassment of the Nazis the degenerate art exhibit attracted much greater numbers than the approved art exhibition. Not surprisingly, the Nazis shut down the degenerate art exhibition very quickly.

Approved art in dystopian societies does tend to be really, really bad.

 

[Azul-din]

I once did a story along the lines of a dystopia- a secret laboratory in America developed sort of super Anthrax which was supposed to be the ultimate in germ warfare- anyone exposed to it was reduced to a grey powder within minutes. One of the researchers, horrified at one country using it against their enemies, thought that if everyone had it (like nuclear weapons in the sixties) no one country would dare use it. So he published it on the internet. The result was that every country used it against those they considered their enemies which effectively wiped out the human race except for two scientists who had independently developed an antidote and tested it on themselves. In the end they met and discovered that nature and the animals had taken over the cities and that the animals developed their own non-human culture.

 

[The Dark One]

I once did a story along the lines of a dystopia- a secret laboratory in America developed sort of super Anthrax which was supposed to be the ultimate in germ warfare- anyone exposed to it was reduced to a grey powder within minutes. One of the researchers, horrified at one country using it against their enemies, thought that if everyone had it (like nuclear weapons in the sixties) no one country would dare use it. So he published it on the internet. The result was that every country used it against those they considered their enemies which effectively wiped out the human race except for two scientists who had independently developed an antidote and tested it on themselves. In the end they met and discovered that nature and the animals had taken over the cities and that the animals developed their own non-human culture.

Pretty much the backstory for Breed to Come by Andre Norton.

Great book.

 

[Queshire]

I don't know if I'd call that a dystopia really though. More of just an apocalypse.

 

[The Dark One]

I don't know if I'd call that a dystopia really though. More of just an apocalypse.

Just An Apocalypse...

Not a bad title.

 

[CupofJoe]

Did you know that the Nazis held a degenerate art exhibition? Not really related to anything. It's just such a storybook moment that I have to laugh.

They also set up at least one Jazz [degenerate music] Band to try and woo the kids away from Benny Goodman and the like. They often rewrote Jazz songs with lyrics more suited to the Nazi ideology.

 

[Finchbearer]

Didn’t Hitler idealise the Ancient Greek statues?