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So, are we tired of zombies yet?

Sanctified

Minstrel
Or do you think readers -- especially e-book readers looking for a genre fix -- still have an appetite for a good zombie tale?

The reason I'm asking is that I'd like to test the waters in the e-book market with something zeitgeisty in a blatant attempt to make a few bucks -- and to learn about selling and marketing e-books before I publish my other stuff.

I'd like to offer a novel or novella for a cheap price and see if the combination of the price and tight, professional writing is enough to propel an e-book up the sales charts.

So...still a market for zombies, or have they gone the way of the vampire by now?
 

Philip Overby

Staff
Article Team
If you want to blatantly make money writing, then write erotica. Of course there are serious erotica writers out there, but there are definitely those who just do it to make a quick buck.

For me, I liked zombies first around 2000. I watched lots of Italian movies by folks like Lucio Fulci, who made unflinching horror movies that still hold up for me to this day. The Walking Dead made zombies cool again after them being kind of schlocky for a while. I don't think I've read a single book about zombies that I can remember (if Max Brooks's Zombie Survival Guide counts, then OK). I've always found zombies to be more interesting in visual media myself.

Maybe I'm not looking in the right places though.

Like anything we've discussed on these forums (elves, orcs, unicorns, vampires, zombies, etc.) a great writer can make even the most trite, overdone concepts awesome. Just because a story is about zombies doesn't mean I'm going to say "Ugh." However, if the blurb reads something like "John and Jane board themselves up inside their winter cabin to avoid zombies" then I'll pass. But if it says "When Jane learns her abusive husband has been cheating on her, she must decide if the zombies outside her window are a living nightmare or a blessing in disguise." If I read the second blurb, I'd say "Ohh...that actually sounds kind of cool." But in my estimation, a bad writer could still take that idea and make it crap.

So...if you want to make a quick buck, I think zombies are still popular enough to do so. However, just because you write zombie fiction doesn't mean people are going to buy it. There still have to be standards.

I don't want to be that hipster guy and say I liked zombies before they were cool, but yeah, I liked zombies before they were cool. I like The Walking Dead because it's good, not because it has zombies. I don't like bad zombie movies because, well, they're bad.
 
Personally, I would caution against publishing something for the "blatant" purpose of making money. You want to do this to learn about marketing and such--but I don't think that I would be able to successfully market something I was not really, truly passionate about.

My concern would be that if you write something zeitgeisty (+100 pts, by the way) just for the sake of trying to sell it, that you might end up with a piece that you don't truly love and cherish. In my experience, if you don't love what you are writing, you no longer do everything in your power to make it the best that it can be.

Having worked in sales, I can tell you that marketing is way easier when you seriously believe in the quality of your product--when you yourself are proud to say, "I use/drink/love Product X."

For me, the real question of this thread is not whether zombies are still popular. The question is whether you think you can really pour your all into a piece about zombies. If the answer is yes, I say proceed with your plan.
 

Philip Overby

Staff
Article Team
I'm not of the opinion that you have to love every single aspect of what you write. I do freelance writing to make some money and I don't necessarily like the stuff I write when I do that. However, I work hard to make it good just the same. That approach can be taken towards certain kind of fiction if the author so chooses. I agree, it's probably not going to be the best possible work if the writer isn't passionate about it. But I don't think that's the OP's issue.

For me, my fantasy work will always be nothing but my best work I feel, because I'm passionate about it. However, if I see a contest looking for zombie fiction, I like zombies enough to try my hand at it. Am I passionate about zombies? No, but I like them just fine.

So I believe each writer has their own set of standards that they have for different kinds of writing. It's important to have pride in your work, but if Sanctified wants to make money, I'm not going to begrudge anyone that.
 
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GeekDavid

Auror
I'm gonna take a bit of a different tack here.

I do not believe in jumping on fads, be they zombie, sparkly vampire, or any other. I believe in writing quality stuff that I would want to buy.

Robin McKinley said, "Write what you want to read. The person you know best in this world is you. Listen to yourself. If you are excited by what you are writing, you have a much better chance of putting that excitement over to a reader."

Also consider: The Hobbit came out in 1937, and people are still buying it 76 years later. Will another zombie book still be selling in 76 years?
 

TWErvin2

Auror
Even if the readership for zombie tales is not longer widespread, I think it'll always remain a niche topic with a solid base of followers. And the better the story, the more of them it will attract and the better chance of breaking out beyond the core set of zombie fiction readers.
 

Sanctified

Minstrel
Thanks for the thoughtful answers, ladies and gents!

For me, I liked zombies first around 2000. I watched lots of Italian movies by folks like Lucio Fulci, who made unflinching horror movies that still hold up for me to this day. The Walking Dead made zombies cool again after them being kind of schlocky for a while. I don't think I've read a single book about zombies that I can remember (if Max Brooks's Zombie Survival Guide counts, then OK). I've always found zombies to be more interesting in visual media myself.

Ah, Lucio Fulci. I still vividly remember that shark scene from Zombi 2, and not because of the shark or the zombie :D

Speaking of the shark, I think The Walking Dead may have jumped it with last season's finale. We'll see.

Personally, I would caution against publishing something for the "blatant" purpose of making money. You want to do this to learn about marketing and such--but I don't think that I would be able to successfully market something I was not really, truly passionate about.

My concern would be that if you write something zeitgeisty (+100 pts, by the way) just for the sake of trying to sell it, that you might end up with a piece that you don't truly love and cherish. In my experience, if you don't love what you are writing, you no longer do everything in your power to make it the best that it can be.

Yeah, this is a good point and I've considered it. For better or worse, it's the complete opposite for me. If I approach a project casually, I can knock it out on a deadline with minimal fuss, but those labors of love are the projects that bog me down.

I want to make my mistakes with a less important, less labor-intensive project first, so that when I publish my labor of love I'll hopefully have a better understanding of the process and avoid common pitfalls.

And thanks for the +100!

Even if the readership for zombie tales is not longer widespread, I think it'll always remain a niche topic with a solid base of followers. And the better the story, the more of them it will attract and the better chance of breaking out beyond the core set of zombie fiction readers.

Another good point. I suppose what I'm getting at is -- are zombies currently vampires at the height of the vampire craze, or is the zombie craze past its apex like vampires? In other words, True Blood was the hottest thing on TV for a few years and now it's doing very well, but it's not scorching...and yet (some) people are still making lots of cash selling vampire e-books.

Robin McKinley said, "Write what you want to read. The person you know best in this world is you. Listen to yourself. If you are excited by what you are writing, you have a much better chance of putting that excitement over to a reader."

Also consider: The Hobbit came out in 1937, and people are still buying it 76 years later. Will another zombie book still be selling in 76 years?

Always good advice, thank you. I'm with Phil on this, I won't be writing anything about teenagers huddled in a cabin to survive the ZA. I'm thinking more of a $100 million set piece from W. 35th through the subway to the shuttle, then into Grand Central where all hell breaks loose, people clinging desperately to Metro-North cars pulling out of the station, passengers willing to shoot people until the doors close, then a nail-biting ride into leafy Westchester County, hoping no one turns while sardined elbow-to-elbow...
 

Lord Ben

Minstrel
There is nothing wrong with trying to figure out if people will buy it before sitting down to write something you hope to sell. It's probably even wise.

Yes, a good zombie story is still probably going to find a market. I like good books in the genre, but I'm more into apocalyptic books (than have or don't have zombies) than I am a specific zombie type. A Distant Eden was pretty good and not a zombie to be found, World War Z interested me more in an apocalyptic sense than the zombies themselves.
 
I'm not of the opinion that you have to love every single aspect of what you write. I do freelance writing to make some money and I don't necessarily like the stuff I write when I do that. However, I work hard to make it good just the same. That approach can be taken towards certain kind of fiction if the author so chooses. I agree, it's probably not going to be the best possible work if the writer isn't passionate about it. But I don't think that's the OP's issue.

My thought wasn't that it is bad to write for the purpose of money. My thought was that you are more likely to make good money off a work you poured a lot into.

For me, my fantasy work will always be nothing but my best work I feel, because I'm passionate about it. However, if I see a contest looking for zombie fiction, I like zombies enough to try my hand at it. Am I passionate about zombies? No, but I like them just fine.

So I believe each writer has their own set of standards that they have for different kinds of writing. It's important to have pride in your work, but if Sanctified wants to make money, I'm not going to begrudge anyone that.

I certainly don't begrudge the idea of wanting to make money. I hope that was not how I came across. Neither was it my intent to suggest any piece of writing that a writer is not passionate about is necessarily inferior. My thoughts have always been that you can really tell when somebody loves what they do, and that makes me more likely to want to be a part of that by buying the product.
 
For better or worse, it's the complete opposite for me. If I approach a project casually, I can knock it out on a deadline with minimal fuss, but those labors of love are the projects that bog me down.

I want to make my mistakes with a less important, less labor-intensive project first, so that when I publish my labor of love I'll hopefully have a better understanding of the process and avoid common pitfalls.

I totally get this.
I also am working on a project which is less emotionally important to me, wanting to publish that before I try to publish the darling I have been working on since I was 16. I picked the topic based on a little idea I had floating around for a while.

If zombies is what you want, I say go for it! But my advice is that if zombies aren't what you want to write about, don't pick zombies just because they are popular.

I admit I'm jealous. I have a terrible time meeting deadlines no matter what I'm writing. Good luck to you as you work on this project.
 

GeekDavid

Auror
If zombies is what you want, I say go for it! But my advice is that if zombies aren't what you want to write about, don't pick zombies just because they are popular.

That's what I was trying to say earlier. Jumping on the latest fad does no one any good... not the author, not the reader.

However, if you can bring something new into a genre, or even more or less create a new genre from scratch, as Tolkien did, then by all means, go for it.

Above all, write what you want to write. Your writing will be so much better than if you feel you have to just because it's popular right now.
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
One problem with following fads: By the time you know it's a fad, you're probably too late to take a project from start-to-finish in time to be a part of it. Zombies is one of those. If you're starting a book now, by the time you've got it published even Walking Dead will be slowing down.

I believe Ben Clayborne was predicting Minotaurs are the new zombie. I think he's probably right. If I was following fads I would jump on that one.

But really, don't think about fads unless you're already successful, writing full time, and prolific enough not to make too much of it.
 

Philip Overby

Staff
Article Team
I think the point Sanctified made earlier is a great one:

I want to make my mistakes with a less important, less labor-intensive project first, so that when I publish my labor of love I'll hopefully have a better understanding of the process and avoid common pitfalls.

One aspect of writing, is that if you're passionate about it and you love it, you're less likely to want to share it with the world. You want it to be perfect. Some may take years and years to finally put something out there because they're too afraid. So to me, this makes a lot of sense on one level. Build up your "writing chops" doing something you may not necessarily worry about if it succeeds or not. Of course still work hard on it, but if it's not your labor of love, then you won't feel as bad if it doesn't come out perfect.

However, on the other hand, if a writer spends many years perfecting one piece, that's their path. Success comes in many different forms. I don't believe in an absolutism when it comes to writing. There must be millions and millions of paths writers can take to get the level of success they want. Maybe becoming a best-selling author is one writer's goal, while just publishing enough to get one's name out there is enough for another.

For instance, maybe J.K. Rowling loved writing Harry Potter, but her crime fiction book was her true passion? It doesn't sound like Sanctified hates the zombie genre at all. If that was the case, I'd say, no, don't do it. I hate to say, but zombies aren't going away. They're cyclical. They may not be popular for a bit, then something awesome will come out and they'll be popular again. Same with vampires. I'm having deja vu as I write this. Surely I've wrote this somewhere before. :)

Anyway, I say go for it. If zombies aren't popular by the time you release it, does it really matter? You still have a completed work out there in the world that hopefully turns out better than you imagined.
 
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Ddruid

Minstrel
I agree with many of the people on this thread about fads. They don't really matter. At least they shouldn't matter to the writer. A story can be riveting and moving whether it has zombies, vampires, werewolves or ponies. What the writer really should focus on is what purpose these popular monsters serve in the story. Why are they there? Just to provide some blood and gore or a chance for your protagonist to show off his hacking/shooting skills? Look beyond that and focus on the overarching themes of your story and figure out how zombies/vampires/whatever reinforce those themes.

An example I'd use is ZOM-B. It is a fast, rip-roaring read but essentially it deals with the story of a teen and his troubled relationship with his racist father. He knows his dad is an extremist and detests the ideals he believes in but is too afraid to stand up to him. Instead he pretends to agree with him and go along with whatever his dad says. But the boy begins to fear that by subduing himself and letting his father preach to him, he might slowly become the monster that deep inside he hates and knows his dad truly is This by itself could make a pretty solid story. But put it against a sudden zombie apocalypse and, instead of being drowned out in blood and gore (and trust me, there's plenty of blood and gore) it attains a horrifying and hard-hitting new sense of realism.

Like The Walking Dead or George Romero's original zombie movies (neither of which I have actually seen), ZOM-B leaves you with the impression that while the dead are bad, the living can be infinitely worse.

I'm not sure if this is relevant to what you were actually asking. Still, I felt like I had to write it. Though I don't attach much (if any) importance to fads, I think the zombie fad is, at least currently, dead. (Funny, on second read that sentence looks like a horrible pun). So I'm assuming that you might be a bit interested in writing about zombies since you thought about that first instead of vampires or erotica. If you are then go ahead of it. Even though you just want to write this to test the waters of marketing who says you can't also use it as an opportunity to test new waters for your writing?
 
Off topic but...minotaurs?

minotaur.jpg


You got a problem with minotaurs, buddy?
 
One aspect of writing, is that if you're passionate about it and you love it, you're less likely to want to share it with the world. You want it to be perfect. Some may take years and years to finally put something out there because they're too afraid. So to me, this makes a lot of sense on one level. Build up your "writing chops" doing something you may not necessarily worry about if it succeeds or not. Of course still work hard on it, but if it's not your labor of love, then you won't feel as bad if it doesn't come out perfect.

However, on the other hand, if a writer spends many years perfecting one piece, that's their path. Success comes in many different forms. I don't believe in an absolutism when it comes to writing. There must be millions and millions of paths writers can take to get the level of success they want. Maybe becoming a best-selling author is one writer's goal, while just publishing enough to get one's name out there is enough for another.

For instance, maybe J.K. Rowling loved writing Harry Potter, but her crime fiction book was her true passion? It doesn't sound like Sanctified hates the zombie genre at all. If that was the case, I'd say, no, don't do it. I hate to say, but zombies aren't going away. They're cyclical. They may not be popular for a bit, then something awesome will come out and they'll be popular again. Same with vampires. I'm having deja vu as I write this. Surely I've wrote this somewhere before. :)

Anyway, I say go for it. If zombies aren't popular by the time you release it, does it really matter? You still have a completed work out there in the world that hopefully turns out better than you imagined.

As always, Phil makes several excellent points, especially that last paragraph.
 
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