marginalized characters that were added just to help get a book published

[Karlin]

Hi,

I just read a novel that centered around family relationships and Chinese beliefs in spirits and ghosts. I finished reading it, and thought to myself "Hang on! Why is the protagonist lesbian? " Her lover only exists in the book in a few 3 line phone calls and some text messages. She doesn't participate in anything that happens- in fact, she doesn't even know what's going on. It's presented as a framework for the story, but doesn't seems necessary at all. The plot, relationships and character development would all be fine if every mention of her lover was deleted. (I'm not being entirely fair to the novel, but...)

I'm guessing that the author added this angle in order to get attention from agents and publishers. Have you gotten such an impression from books you've read? Do you do the same? Should I?

Note, my next work involves Michelangelo as the main character. He was what we called today homosexual, so I am 'off the hook' for this one.

Karlin

 

[pmmg]

She may have bowed to the current climate in some way but i would not know. I could only suspect.

I do not add this stuff for the sake of having it. That would be a big ‘no’ from me. I add stuff when it makes sense for it to be in the story. Given the large cast of my story. It can be presumed some have same sex attractions but its not a goal of the story to highlight it.

 

[Zombified Spider]

I recently read a horror story that was the same. The lesbianism felt forced and unnatural, and like it was an afterthought. It was overall a terrible book and plot but in the end it felt more like a romance book than a horror.

 

[SamazonE]

I thought lesbians were of myth and legend, divine in appearance. It could seem necessary. I’m all for a police detective novel or female protagonist of a computer game.

Maybe they are more used to dating nerds and dorks, so it pays to be a lesbian. A lot of these romances are all the audience wants to read, and I think there is a white-wash of the phenomenon that has everyone nibbling their fingers off.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

This is a subject that I've actually spent a whole lot of time on.

Reaching Beyond the Common Narrative

When my team girds our loins and digs into a new project, we ask a lot of questions. Does this character need to be white? Or male? Or straight? Or abled? Or even cis? Are they neurodivergent? Straight, white, male, cis, and abled is the default human across media. He doesn't need a "plot reason" to exist. Why is this female character a lesbian? Maybe she's into cherry chap stick? Oh! What plot reason does she have for being a lesbian?

Does Man-Dude the Chosen One, strong of farmboy and insta-swordmaster after a training montage with the lesbian lady, need a plot reason to go chasing barmaids with heaving bosoms? Nope. Because why? Because default human.

Braving Diversity: Intro Post

This is a debate that has raged across Publishing for the past few decades. Team Lowan writes Urban Fantasy, and we strongly believe, being the products of inner city public schools, that our stories and Urban Fantasy as a genre needs to be "urban." And what does that mean? It means there's no #ChicagoSoWhite issues in the Books of Binding. So, when drafting, I ask questions a whole lot, but they usually start with "Why does this guy need to be white?" People, horses, gerbils, all the same. Why is this rat male?

So, the question I would ask when faced with a lesbian character isn't "Why lesbian? Plot reasons?" but rather, "Why does this MMC need to be white?" And the answer is usually that they don't. And that not only frees the author to explore more and find richness in their characters and their settings. And yes, there will be authors who cling to the lily whiteness of their Chosen One and his very broad shoulders and golden hair and dancing blue eyes. And to them I say, "You do you, man. I've got a city to level, and Seahaven has never been #SeahavenSoWhite."

Diversity Is Not Enough: Race, Power, Publishing

Now, is it important to have well thought out and researched representation in media? Yes. Oh yes, it is. It's the silver bullet to self-esteem in kids across the board and also adults, but kids have been studied more. And the studies say that when watching media, kids lose esteem across the board... except for one group. Little white boys who show strong indications of fitting neatly into the default mold. Their senses of self-esteem increase. And why?

Because they get to see themselves as the hero in their stories.

It's not terribly easy when you first determine that you're going to reach further than your own assumptions and "facts." Fortunately, there is a ton of help out there, in the form of no-holds-barred advice. This is just a few, a tiny box of rabid chocolates. Enjoy! lol

How to Write Women of Colour and Men of Colour if you are White
I am not Hispanic, I am Puerto Rican – Isabel Schechter | Jim C. Hines
Breaking Mirrors – Diana Pho | Jim C. Hines
Transracial Writing for the Sincere - SFWA - The Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers Association

This is another one of mine, my comments at the bottom. Also, about 9 years ago.
https://aelowan.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F140882389195

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Oh! And pop quiz for anyone's who's read the first three of the Books of Binding. Raise your hands if you think Brian MacDowell is white.

 

[Prince of Spires]

I agree up to a point with A. E. Lowan that the best answer to the question Why? probably is Why not?

There's nothing wrong with having a lesbian protagonist where it doesn't feature a lot in the story. If the protagonist had been straigth, then you probably would have simply taken it as a bit of character building that shows the protagonist has a life outside the story. So why should a lesbian character be any different?

However, these choices have consequences. And that's probably where this writer went wrong. For example, I can imagine that a lesbian has a different way of looking at the world or other people than a straight woman would. Already just how they would describe another person. She'd probably notice different things about other women than a straight woman would for instance.

So just slapping a label on someone and then ignoring the consequences of that label is not the way to go. At the same time though, sometimes you just have a character be something without it impacting the story overall, and you just want to deepen your character a bit. I mean, it rarely impact a story that your character's favorite color is dark yellow, bordering on orange. However, it can be an interesting tidbit to share with readers just to explain a bit about the character. (and yes, being lesbian and having a favorite color are two completely different things. I know.)

 

[Queshire]

I agree up to a point with A. E. Lowan that the best answer to the question Why? probably is Why not?

There's nothing wrong with having a lesbian protagonist where it doesn't feature a lot in the story. If the protagonist had been straigth, then you probably would have simply taken it as a bit of character building that shows the protagonist has a life outside the story. So why should a lesbian character be any different?

However, these choices have consequences. And that's probably where this writer went wrong. For example, I can imagine that a lesbian has a different way of looking at the world or other people than a straight woman would. Already just how they would describe another person. She'd probably notice different things about other women than a straight woman would for instance.

So just slapping a label on someone and then ignoring the consequences of that label is not the way to go. At the same time though, sometimes you just have a character be something without it impacting the story overall, and you just want to deepen your character a bit. I mean, it rarely impact a story that your character's favorite color is dark yellow, bordering on orange. However, it can be an interesting tidbit to share with readers just to explain a bit about the character. (and yes, being lesbian and having a favorite color are two completely different things. I know.)

Hrrrm.... I half agree with this? I do agree that things in a character's life should have an effect on them, but how strongly that effect manifests is going to vary from character to character. From Karlin's description I also don't know if romance or attraction is relevant to the story to begin with or if it's just a matter of flavor much like, say, food.

EDIT: I wish a title was provided so that people could see for themselves if they wanted.

 

[Zombified Spider]

I agree up to a point with A. E. Lowan that the best answer to the question Why? probably is Why not?

There's nothing wrong with having a lesbian protagonist where it doesn't feature a lot in the story. If the protagonist had been straigth, then you probably would have simply taken it as a bit of character building that shows the protagonist has a life outside the story. So why should a lesbian character be any different?

However, these choices have consequences. And that's probably where this writer went wrong. For example, I can imagine that a lesbian has a different way of looking at the world or other people than a straight woman would. Already just how they would describe another person. She'd probably notice different things about other women than a straight woman would for instance.

So just slapping a label on someone and then ignoring the consequences of that label is not the way to go. At the same time though, sometimes you just have a character be something without it impacting the story overall, and you just want to deepen your character a bit. I mean, it rarely impact a story that your character's favorite color is dark yellow, bordering on orange. However, it can be an interesting tidbit to share with readers just to explain a bit about the character. (and yes, being lesbian and having a favorite color are two completely different things. I know.)

As a lesbian, I can say that you are correct. Lesbians do see the world differently, and our problems are different than straight women's problems when it comes to relationships. You can't just slap the word "Lesbian" over someone and they're now lesbian; we act differently than straight women. I usually have chocolate in my backpack for my girlfriend if she's on her period, and I also have pads and tampons for anyone who needs them. I carry snacks on me and ibuprofen (idk if that's something all people do). I also feel out of place among straight women whom I know but don't know very well, because I have a tendency to talk about my girlfriend (i love her so much). Also I just look gay so...

 

[Mad Swede]

I was intending to stay out of this discussion, but given that I'm so severely dyslexic that I qualify as disabled I'm going to shove my oar in. And in doing so I'm going to argue against A. E. Lowan, at least in part.

My view is that before we as authors even get to the question of whether a character needs to be a white CIS male or something else we need to think about the setting, and in particular we need to think about how society works in that setting.

In many ways, contemporary fantasy is the easy option. You can and should include all kinds of diverse characters, because modern society has become more accepting of them. That way we continue to build acceptance and self-esteem amongst all our readers. But what about other fantasy settings?

To take my dyslexia as an example. In a medieval style setting where there are few or no schools and only a very few can read and write well enough to teach their children and even fewer can afford tutors for their children there will be many people who cannot read and write. How would you ever know anything about dyslexia? Someone like me would be lost in the mass of people who are illiterate, we wouldn't be different or even be seen as different because no-one would ever think to ask why we couldn't read or write. In fact, being able to read and write would make you different...

Another example is homosexuality. How is this seen in your setting? It may be legal (or at least not illegal) but does that mean society accepts people like that? Is there a difference in attitudes between the (supposedly) sophisticated cities and the countryside? What impact does this have on our characters? Where do they meet others like them? Do they become open to blackmail? Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against including a character like that, but I do expect you the author to think it all the way through. Apart from anything else there are so many potential little plot hooks...

Different skin colour is yet another one. If your character has grown up a medieval style small town somewhere and never travelled far, how will they react when they get to some major trading port and see a person with a different skin colour? This person that they've just seen, how do they react to yet another country yokel staring at them? This coloured person, how are they treated in the port town, and is the way they're seen different from how they would be seen elsewhere in that same country? Here the plot possibilities start to pile up. People trying to con one another, subtle attempts at one uppmanship from both sides. And so on...

If you character sails to some new continent and goes ashore only to be met by a bunch of people with a different skin colour, what happens? Does your character survive the initial encounter or are they killed on the spot because the locals think they're some sort of monster? If they survive, how does our character react to being stared at by everyone? And so on...

To me, including diverse characters needs a lot of thought. Part of this is about setting and the societal norms in that setting. Thet other part is about characterisation and how these characters are as people. Based on how I sort that out I can then go on to work what impact this has on the plot and on character development. In my experience there is huge potential for some really complex characters and wonderfully intricate plots when I include diverse characters. But I have to think it through first, otherwise it's just tokenism.

Which leads me to my final comments. If you're writing contemporary fantasy you've got no excuse, so you'd better have a damn good reason for making a given character a white CIS male. But if you're writing fantasy set in another world then you'd better think through that setting in full before including a diverse character, because otherwise you may be creating a token representative character - and that is not what diversity and acceptance are about.

 

[Queshire]

I was intending to stay out of this discussion, but given that I'm so severely dyslexic that I qualify as disabled I'm going to shove my oar in. And in doing so I'm going to argue against A. E. Lowan, at least in part.

My view is that before we as authors even get to the question of whether a character needs to be a white CIS male or something else we need to think about the setting, and in particular we need to think about how society works in that setting.

In many ways, contemporary fantasy is the easy option. You can and should include all kinds of diverse characters, because modern society has become more accepting of them. That way we continue to build acceptance and self-esteem amongst all our readers. But what about other fantasy settings?

To take my dyslexia as an example. In a medieval style setting where there are few or no schools and only a very few can read and write well enough to teach their children and even fewer can afford tutors for their children there will be many people who cannot read and write. How would you ever know anything about dyslexia? Someone like me would be lost in the mass of people who are illiterate, we wouldn't be different or even be seen as different because no-one would ever think to ask why we couldn't read or write. In fact, being able to read and write would make you different...

Another example is homosexuality. How is this seen in your setting? It may be legal (or at least not illegal) but does that mean society accepts people like that? Is there a difference in attitudes between the (supposedly) sophisticated cities and the countryside? What impact does this have on our characters? Where do they meet others like them? Do they become open to blackmail? Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against including a character like that, but I do expect you the author to think it all the way through. Apart from anything else there are so many potential little plot hooks...

Different skin colour is yet another one. If your character has grown up a medieval style small town somewhere and never travelled far, how will they react when they get to some major trading port and see a person with a different skin colour? This person that they've just seen, how do they react to yet another country yokel staring at them? This coloured person, how are they treated in the port town, and is the way they're seen different from how they would be seen elsewhere in that same country? Here the plot possibilities start to pile up. People trying to con one another, subtle attempts at one uppmanship from both sides. And so on...

If you character sails to some new continent and goes ashore only to be met by a bunch of people with a different skin colour, what happens? Does your character survive the initial encounter or are they killed on the spot because the locals think they're some sort of monster? If they survive, how does our character react to being stared at by everyone? And so on...

To me, including diverse characters needs a lot of thought. Part of this is about setting and the societal norms in that setting. Thet other part is about characterisation and how these characters are as people. Based on how I sort that out I can then go on to work what impact this has on the plot and on character development. In my experience there is huge potential for some really complex characters and wonderfully intricate plots when I include diverse characters. But I have to think it through first, otherwise it's just tokenism.

Which leads me to my final comments. If you're writing contemporary fantasy you've got no excuse, so you'd better have a damn good reason for making a given character a white CIS male. But if you're writing fantasy set in another world then you'd better think through that setting in full before including a diverse character, because otherwise you may be creating a token representative character - and that is not what diversity and acceptance are about.

Hmmm.... Of course a world should be well designed, but as authors we should look for areas where the readers can do some of the work for us as well as consider what aspects are relevant enough to the plot to require filling out.

For example, if we have our protagonists meet a queen and her wife then their presence implies something about how the setting views homosexuality with how the characters react to it further implying things about how it is viewed. The precise details can be left up to the readers to imagine.

If that occurs in a story about heading up into the frozen north to defeat the dark lord and matters of royal inheritances, weddings or any of that scheming aren't featured then such sparse details can be sufficient for the needs of the story.

 

[Karlin]

I was commenting on a case where a character's sexual orientation seemed like an afterthought, not on the basic fact that the author included such a character.
I'm pretty much a pantser, so I don't sit down and figure out who all the characters are in advance. They show up and introduce themselves as I go along.
In my last novel , now being edited, a novel which takes place in our modern world, more or less, the heroine is Hispanic and a former drunk. Another main character is apparently neorodivergent, though he's never spelled it out. He's also of Nepalese descent. There's a minor character who's non-binary, partly as a means to create tension with his/her/ etc uncle, and partly cause I felt like it.
And some characters may be white, but we don't really know, as their racial identity doesn't show up, and takes a back seat to their other traits.

 

[Queshire]

I was commenting on a case where a character's sexual orientation seemed like an afterthought, not on the basic fact that the author included such a character.
I'm pretty much a pantser, so I don't sit down and figure out who all the characters are in advance. They show up and introduce themselves as I go along.
In my last novel , now being edited, a novel which takes place in our modern world, more or less, the heroine is Hispanic and a former drunk. Another main character is apparently neorodivergent, though he's never spelled it out. He's also of Nepalese descent. There's a minor character who's non-binary, partly as a means to create tension with his/her/ etc uncle, and partly cause I felt like it.
And some characters may be white, but we don't really know, as their racial identity doesn't show up, and takes a back seat to their other traits.

What's the title of the book?

 

[Karlin]

What's the title of the book?

Black Water Sister. It starts out with her grandma's ghost mentioning that she's lesbian, but then novel goes on the deal with other things, mostly possession by gods and spirits.

 

[Queshire]

Black Water Sister. It starts out with her grandma's ghost mentioning that she's lesbian, but then novel goes on the deal with other things, mostly possession by gods and spirits.

Whelp, I have a spare audible credit to burn. To google! Awaaaaaay!

 

[Queshire]

...
Wait, this is just exploring and resolving the contradictions between traditional heritage and modern life with the protagonist's sexuality serving to increase the tension between those parts of her life. =/

EDIT: I mean, maybe I'm missing something since I'm only on chapter two, but it serves to set up where the protagonist is at in the begining of the story.

You have the daughter of immigrants who feels a disconnect from her heritage but has to deal with getting thrown im the deep end with her heritage when they move back to the country her parents are from, and there's further feelings of isolation & disconnect from her family since she's keeping her sexuality secret from them, and she's dealing with feelings of being a failure due to being unable to get a job with her cushy college education. I wouldn't say the protagonist being a lesbian is strictly necessary for the plot, but it does contibute to where she's starting out as a character.

 

[Karlin]

...
Wait, this is just exploring and resolving the contradictions between traditional heritage and modern life with the protagonist's sexuality serving to increase the tension between those parts of her life. =/

EDIT: I mean, maybe I'm missing something since I'm only on chapter two, but it serves to set up where the protagonist is at in the begining of the story.

You have the daughter of immigrants who feels a disconnect from her heritage but has to deal with getting thrown im the deep end with her heritage when they move back to the country her parents are from, and there's further feelings of isolation & disconnect from her family since she's keeping her sexuality secret from them, and she's dealing with feelings of being a failure due to being unable to get a job with her cushy college education. I wouldn't say the protagonist being a lesbian is strictly necessary for the plot, but it does contibute to where she's starting out as a character.

Read on. I thought the same at first.

 

[skip.knox]

I do think that the reader has to carry some of the burden. When I read a book and a character (or plot twist or item or whatever) is introduced, I either buy it or I don't. If I do not, I don't normally start looking for motives. I just figure that the author was ham-handed or incompetent or that the delivery just didn't work for me. I don't try to puzzle out whether or not the author tried that particular angle just to be woke or just to get published or any "just" sort of thing. I don't try to puzzle this out mainly because it's fruitless. I don't know the author. I don't know their aims in general or in the case of this particular book.

If I were to try to assign non-literary motives, then it's sort of on me to prove the case. It's no good saying something like, "there too much of this sort of thing nowadays", or not without the qualifier, "at least to me." And that's fine. At least to me, there are any number of things there's just too much of nowadays. But it's just me looking at the world. It don't signify.

OTOH, if the ploy didn't work (for me), I will sometimes take a step further and try to figure out why it didn't work--for me as an author. I try to keep an eye out for Things To Avoid in my own writing. But that comes down to skill and technique; nothing beyond.

 

[pmmg]

If you're writing contemporary fantasy you've got no excuse, so you'd better have a damn good reason for making a given character a white CIS male.

Ridiculous. I dont need a special reason to write a white male character.

 

[SamazonE]

If it was written by a black man, it might have different ramifications. Writing white heroic characters, is like writing about your dog. They chase dogs. That is about all they do. There is no context, only intent. If the dog was say, Roverandom, then there might be more fantasy element, because it was written by a white man, but they were black times. White males might also make different decisions written by either, and you might say that they are filled with differing motivations. One likes to bake cake, one likes to eat it, thus the tension.

Homosexuality is another field of thought. They might be heroic, in weaker ways. I have had a look at fiction written by homosexuals and straights, about homosexuals, and one contains more sex. The withholding is done by the straight, of course. They get to combine in romance, but they don’t get to combine in sex. It takes you back to a more provincial or futuristic time, every time, but the modern day is a bit morose, that is my opinion of it. The fact that a lesbian has different motivations than a gay, well that is a-tale-as-old-as-time, and they never seem to chafe each other, in the plot.

Writing a neurodivergent character, is like writing an existentialist expose on determinism. It just sucks, and you can never truly investigate all its parameters. Whether they are white-black-straight-gay, might not even register on their sick minds. It comes back to what goes down in your plot, and what you are willing to censor, who you are willing to insult, how mature you are going to act. Who you invite to a party depends on many things, and who you are going to invite to your barbecue relies on how much you meet-and-greet.

The stoic character ends it. I have decided there is a vain in the stoic character that always knows what to do, like an assassin he ghosts, there is innocence in their steps, from both sides, as they ghost pirates, or avail knights. They are willing to work together, to get the job done. They take the cream, the cherry, the whole lot. They are a dolphin not a shark, not a whale. There is camaraderie across all gender affiliations, and they feel good at the end of the day. If they are lesbians or not, is decided by the norms of their situation. That is, if it is written by a black man, of course. Heroes can go suck eggs.