Evil Character in a Evil World

[xww]

Personally,I am a big fan of Warhammer Fantasy because claim to like a Grimdark world is badass.And as we know,the world of Warhammer,and Shadow of the Demon Lord,and Conan the Barbarian,and every Dark Fantasy World is full of Gore,Death,Despair,Tragic story,and Cosmic horror.

But after I read Blood Meridian，I find some thing very different bewteen BM and a Dark Fantasy World. The biggest difference is that in BM,almost every characters are blood-thirsty monster,there kill and r*pe and destory every thing in their path,let the pure hatred and dark desire filled with them.But in most Dark World, We always told that the main characters are not "So" bad .In Warhammer 40K, even the Imperium, a faction benchmark Lawful Evil, was is always described as "a necessary evil" or "the only way out".And the space marine and Imperium Guard was always has taken on the hue of a tragic hero.

In China and in some Japan stories,if we want to create a Dark Fantasy World, many writers would like to make the main character a Ture Terrible Monster,He will torture and kill everyone he doesn't like,seize every beautiful woman,and destroy old world order without thinking twice.

So what do your guys think of the two different type of Dark Fantasy?A world full of evil with a understandable main faction or character,Or a world tortured by bad main faction or character?Which make you feel more grim,and which make you more uncomfortable?

 

[xww]

Let me explain if it is too abstract.

In the fandom of China, there a lot of fan fiction of Warhammer 40K,and many Warhammer-like fiction,and in their story ,the Imperium-like faction is a ture living hell,every pieces of it was made to oppression and enslavement everyone in it. The underclass are suffered and the upperclass is deeply corrupt.The faction will enslave beautiful elf woman,kill every elf man and every people in it has a taste of R18G,And the world always not so bad.But the ture Imperium is not so madness,at least we seldom saw Space Marine use Aldar as their sex slave.

My goal is NOT to Compare the literary differences between Westen and Easten Dark Fantasy.I just wonder that if a Good or Bad main faction/character will influence the connotation of a Dark Fantasy World

 

[ThinkerX]

There are many fantasy stories with main characters who could be considered 'evil.' The 'Malazan' series by Erikson features a brutal empire ruled by assassins and evil magicians. Dark, murderous characters abound in Abercrombie's books.

 

[pmmg]

For me, the world full of evil would be more tortured, but I wonder, if the world was entirely evil, how would anyone know? What would they compare it too?

I don't think such is really possible. I think too many forces would prevent it.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Wait, wouldn't an 'evil' character in an 'evil' world be a 'good' guy?
Cause for evil guys/worlds a 'good guy' is evil? (Serious question)
Also you wouldn't have to make them a goody two shoes, Robo Cop and Punisher prove that well enough, let alone Deadpool.

 

[Queshire]

Wait, wouldn't an 'evil' character in an 'evil' world be a 'good' guy?
Cause for evil guys/worlds a 'good guy' is evil? (Serious question)
Also you wouldn't have to make them a goody two shoes, Robo Cop and Punisher prove that well enough, let alone Deadpool.

Ehhhh... they're the protagonist, but I don't know if that makes them good. The execution in the story can also do a lot to make the protagonist's actions seem a lot more palatable than they might be otherwise. We see all the choices & events that lead to the protagonist doing what they do along with frequently seeing likable side characters and/or hot girls acting favorably to the protagonist. It can do a lot to turn something like genociding an entire clan of people into being a cool rebel getting justified revenge for the crimes said clan did against you and your family.

For me, the world full of evil would be more tortured, but I wonder, if the world was entirely evil, how would anyone know? What would they compare it too?

I don't think such is really possible. I think too many forces would prevent it.

Well sure, within the context of a story someone taking advantage of their position as basically a police officer at a supernatural organization in order to test out different poisons isn't worth mentioning, but to the readers that still a pretty uncaring act.

Though also, in a lot of these settings it is possible to have a peaceful & prosperous life... so long as you know the rules for your social station, don't break them and are lucky enough that events outside your control don't mess everything up for you.

They just don't get a lot of attention since the farm world whose only interaction with the greater galactic society is paying their yearly taxes isn't as interesting as the heavily polluted & urbanized industrial world where the residents work 16 hours a day, 7 days a week and has all sorts of mutants & cultists infesting the lower levels.

Personally,I am a big fan of Warhammer Fantasy because claim to like a Grimdark world is badass.And as we know,the world of Warhammer,and Shadow of the Demon Lord,and Conan the Barbarian,and every Dark Fantasy World is full of Gore,Death,Despair,Tragic story,and Cosmic horror.

But after I read Blood Meridian，I find some thing very different bewteen BM and a Dark Fantasy World. The biggest difference is that in BM,almost every characters are blood-thirsty monster,there kill and r*pe and destory every thing in their path,let the pure hatred and dark desire filled with them.But in most Dark World, We always told that the main characters are not "So" bad .In Warhammer 40K, even the Imperium, a faction benchmark Lawful Evil, was is always described as "a necessary evil" or "the only way out".And the space marine and Imperium Guard was always has taken on the hue of a tragic hero.

In China and in some Japan stories,if we want to create a Dark Fantasy World, many writers would like to make the main character a Ture Terrible Monster,He will torture and kill everyone he doesn't like,seize every beautiful woman,and destroy old world order without thinking twice.

So what do your guys think of the two different type of Dark Fantasy?A world full of evil with a understandable main faction or character,Or a world tortured by bad main faction or character?Which make you feel more grim,and which make you more uncomfortable?

I think a part of it is certainly that they're sufficiently different markets. As a result different stories rise to prominence and end up influencing what comes later.

There might also be a cultural element? Asian countries have a reputation of being more collectivist while western countries are more individualistic. I wouldn't be surprised if the fantasy part of dark fantasy would be different due to this, but I really don't have the expertise to do more than guess.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Ehhhh... they're the protagonist, but I don't know if that makes them good. The execution in the story can also do a lot to make the protagonist's actions seem a lot more palatable than they might be otherwise. We see all the choices & events that lead to the protagonist doing what they do along with frequently seeing likable side characters and/or hot girls acting favorably to the protagonist. It can do a lot to turn something like genociding an entire clan of people into being a cool rebel getting justified revenge for the crimes said clan did against you and your family.

I mean a 'protagonist' doesn't have to be a 'good' person.
They just have to be 'less evil' than the actual evil in the story.

Like I said, Deadpool is a shining example. He's "cut from a different cloth" than say Cyclops or even Wolverine, but at the end of the day, bro has 'standards' and if you cross that line 'screw you' lol When he WANTS to be a good guy, he can, just most of the time he chooses not to.

Punisher? Same Thing though far less family friendly than deadpool would ever imagine to be (And I mean this if we're comparing the two)

Robo Cop? Certainly more family friendly than the other two (Though not so much on the gore) but I wouldn't call him a 'goody two shoes' either. He's a loose cannon.

 

[pmmg]

Well sure, within the context of a story someone taking advantage of their position as basically a police officer at a supernatural organization in order to test out different poisons isn't worth mentioning, but to the readers that still a pretty uncaring act.

Though also, in a lot of these settings it is possible to have a peaceful & prosperous life... so long as you know the rules for your social station, don't break them and are lucky enough that events outside your control don't mess everything up for you.

They just don't get a lot of attention since the farm world whose only interaction with the greater galactic society is paying their yearly taxes isn't as interesting as the heavily polluted & urbanized industrial world where the residents work 16 hours a day, 7 days a week and has all sorts of mutants & cultists infesting the lower levels.

Yes, I did not say what I really wanted to say, cause the words were not there at the time.

For a world to be totally evil, which is easy enough to write, I suppose, from the perspective of that world, would they even know what evil is? This would rely on the reader to bring the concept in with them. Evil is only evil in comparison to something good. Without the good, it would just stand as whatever was normal. So, I think the world must also have some concept of good for it to be acknowledged, and if it did...where is it?

Personally, I don't think an evil world could function. But...I've accepted equally unlikely stuff in the past.

I wonder if rather than being an 'evil' world, it is more an exceptionally cruel world. A character can not like a lot of things that mistreat them, but still have a wavering heart.

 

[Zara]

I thought the same things others have mentioned. All we know is what is "normal". So if you're in a purely evil world, those who live there wouldn't see it as evil, just the norm. They may know they are unhappy and perhaps struggle to survive but evil is literally what our society says it is.

 

[Prince of Spires]

It's a tough one to get right I think. In Warhammer Fantasy, you've got Skaven, the rat-like faction which is pretty much evil. It's cool and sort of works. But in my opinion, it pretty much only works because it's leaning on the cartoony aspects of them and doesn't dig too deep into the actual workings of the society. It's hard to see how a purely evil society would function and grow long term.

That doesn't mean that you can't have a might-makes-right society filled with murders etc. However, people can still care about their neighbours in such a society, or personal property. If you go with the late roman empire, you get a situation where anyone with enough money or a big enough army could end up as emperor by virtue of removing the previous emperor from power (which is why you have a year of the six emperors and year of the five emperors etc). However, there is still some rule of law in the late roman empire. And most people just go about their business.

I do agree with pmmg that having contrast helps. If everyone everywhere is evil, there there is nothing to show how evil they actually are. While if you have some contrast with a neutral or good faction, then you can more easily highlight the differences.

 

[ThinkerX]

I created the goblins and especially the hobgoblins in my worlds to be 'justifiably evil.'

It came down to biology and the desire to reproduce. Male goblins and hobgoblins outnumber the females by 100 to 1. To get their shot at a lady, the males have to either impress them: raiding the neighbors of whatever race, make themselves super useful, or do in their competition. The ones that succeed get a hot date and get to watch their offspring hatch. (Goblins/hobgoblins are hatched, not born from clutches of eggs ranging from two to a dozen.) These offspring get a basic education that also sorts them into a rigid pecking order. (Packs.) Packs can cooperate to get one or more of their members a date. Some packs use murder and subterfuge to dominate others, though the females get a major say. 'Kings' - magically talented goblins and hobgoblins with the innate ability to charm their kin - rule ciries and kingdoms.

All this makes for a race perpetually in conflict, where murder is legal, especially with the hobgoblins. Goblins tend to be more thievish/creative, with some becoming roving merchants/carters. Hobgoblins have rigid codes of honor that make internal cooperation and external dealings feasible. Both races have Packs and individuals that drop out of the mating competition for various reasons to take public service of sorts or become monks or priests.