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Tried of vampires being goody two-shoes?

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
I kept reading because I wanted to know what would happen next...

If you can accomplish this in your writing, you've succeeded. You can talk about technique and style all day long, but the bottom line is, if you can get the reader to want to turn the next page like that, you've already positioned yourself well above the pack.
 

Nihal

Vala
If you can accomplish this in your writing, you've succeeded. You can talk about technique and style all day long, but the bottom line is, if you can get the reader to want to turn the next page like that, you've already positioned yourself well above the pack.

Yes, I know, that's why I recognize her writing has some merit. I think this + her ability to reunite all the common insecurities of females in one character making her average readers empathize with Bella are the main reasons her books became so popular.

However, even if I kept reading, her books left a foul aftertaste. I know won't pick anything else she writes, if they weren't borrowed I don't think I would even finish the trilogy. When a writer does it in the right way I go to great lengths to finish the read, E.G.: Hunt down and import their untranslated books.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
However, even if I kept reading her books left a foul aftertaste, I know won't pick anything else she writes.

I only read the first book. It wasn't my thing, so I didn't get further into the series. Actually, though, The Host wasn't bad. I liked that one a lot more than Twilight.

I don't think you have to like Bella to like the story. My daughter read through all four books in marathon sessions, and at the time she wasn't reading much at all. Her comment to me about Bella was "Bella is an idiot." But that didn't stop her enjoying the books. They very effectively got her interested in reading a bit more.
 

Nihal

Vala
Truth to be told, I rarely empathize with main characters. Sometimes I like a sidekick or a villain, but usually the story is what keeps me hooked. I developed a morbid curiosity about Twilight - it was before the hating trend had taken it's full proportion -, wanting to see if the writer would manage to salvage the story.



*ahem* Anyway, going a little back to the topic: I like it when the author recreates a well know (or not) creature. I think nowadays the type of vampire that still stirs my curiosity are the monstrous ones. I don't mean evil neither sexy, I mean the beast-like vampires, not glamorous at all.
 

OGone

Troubadour
The people who thrive on hating it are far worse than the fans. As I've said here and elsewhere, I think it was mediocre writing (not terrible, certainly not great), but Meyer obviously did a remarkable job of connecting with readers in telling her story. The hate for Twilight is so over the top and all out of proportion that it in my view it boils down to cases of extreme hipsterism or, when coming from writers, a lot of jealousy. I'm talking about the disproportionate level of hatred you'll see, not cases of an individual simply disliking the book as they might any other. I didn't care for it, but even so it has some merits in my personal view, and given the reaction of readers around the world it seems self-evident that it has a lot of merit to others. It is easier, of course, to simply say it has none and dismiss the idea than to actually try to figure out why it works.

A lot of the hate on Twilight is bandwagoning. There's an internet sensation in bashing the books and you're cool if you do so (on the other hand, you're gay if you like Twilight). I wouldn't even say extreme hipsterism, it's the opposite. The hipster view would be not caring that much about Twilight but not developing an obsessive hate either.

If you like football, consider Manchester United. Probably the most supported clubs in the world and it is equally as hated because of this. Twilight is the Manchester United of literature :rolleyes:

Twilight is like marmite. Love it or hate it. If you say "ehh, it's just out there, who cares what everyone else is talking about/hating on" you're a fricking hipster.

I'm a hipster :cool:
 
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Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
The hipster view would be not caring that much about Twilight but not developing an obsessive hate either.

Point taken :)

With respect to the bandwagoning point - yes, and I saw the same thing on writing forums with respect to Harry Potter, though to a lesser degree, and also with respect to The Da Vinci Code, to a much lesser degree. It seems to occur anytime there is a huge hit in the literary world. A lot of the time, the people making the most vocal criticisms haven't even read the work, which tells you something else a bit irrational is going on.
 

DTowne

Minstrel
I LOVED Diaries of the Family Dracul. It really shaped my views on vampires. And even though there are "good" vampires, they're still tragic and monstrous.

Perfectly put. She did an amazing job of making them human and relatable yet still vile creatures. After reading that trilogy I had always hoped she'd write more in that genre rather than strictly historical fiction, good as she is with them as well.
 

BenGoram

Dreamer
I think there are a lot of different criticisms of Twilight, some more valid than others. There's no reason to get upset because "she's making vampires twee" etc. (And this is coming from someone who takes vampire mythos VERY seriously.) But I've heard concerns from parents about the messages the books send to young girls. (My mother-in-law was a Junior High School librarian who had to pull the fourth book from her shelves because of how graphic and disturbing the sex was.) Had these books been aimed at adults like other paranormal romance, I doubt there would be such a backlash.

After reading that trilogy I had always hoped she'd write more in that genre rather than strictly historical fiction, good as she is with them as well.

Me too. She did mention recently working on (or hoping to work on) a sequel of sorts.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
You must be thinking of something else, BenGoram. There's no sex in Twilight. Stephanie Meyer is Mormon and had the whole "wait until we're married" thing going. The first sex is in one of the later books in the series on their night of their wedding. I think that's a fairly conservative approach.Not graphic, from what I understand. Apparently the scene of Bella giving birth in the later book bothered some people.

If you peruse the stuff on the teen shelves - sex, drugs, pregnancy, suicide, murder, and so on - the Twilight series is pretty tame.
 
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BenGoram

Dreamer
You must be thinking of something else, BenGoram. There's no sex in Twilight. Stephanie Meyer is Mormon and had the whole "wait until we're married" thing going. The first sex is in one of the later books in the series on their night of their wedding. I think that's a fairly conservative approach.Not graphic, from what I understand. Apparently the scene of Bella giving birth in the later book bothered some people.

Yes, I meant in the fourth book. Anyway, it may be that I'm out of touch with what teens are exposed to. Regardless, that wasn't really the topic of this thread, so I won't derail it further.

But more on topic, I'm generally not in favor of books that portray little to no downside to vampirism as a condition. But that's just a personal preference.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
But more on topic, I'm generally not in favor of books that portray little to no downside to vampirism as a condition. But that's just a personal preference.

Yeah. I like vampires that are more monstrous and dangerous, personally. Along the lines of 30 Days of Night, maybe (not the movie, but the novelization or graphic novels). Not a glamorous thing to be.
 
You must be thinking of something else, BenGoram. There's no sex in Twilight. Stephanie Meyer is Mormon and had the whole "wait until we're married" thing going.

To be fair, it was not for lack of Bella trying, but rather Edward being old-fashioned about it and wanting to wait. (As well as not wanting to accidentally kill Bella.)

It went kinda like this:

Bella: Let's have sex.
Edward: We can't, I'd hurt you.
Bella: So, turn me into a vampire first.
Edward: Yeah, how about no?
Bella: Pretty please turn me into a vampire?
Edward: Only if you marry me.
Bella: Okay, but turn me into a vampire after our wedding night.
Edward: Deal. ...Wait, what were we talking about again?

But more on topic, I'm generally not in favor of books that portray little to no downside to vampirism as a condition. But that's just a personal preference.

While I'm usually light on the downsides myself, I do think there should be something unappealing about vampirism that might make a human hesitate to become one.

In one of my stories, vampires are basically necromancers who tried to cheat death by becoming something that isn't quite alive, reasoning that if you're not technically alive, you can't die. The problem is that being alive but still not alive does funny things to your mind, so all of them ended up extremely eccentric at best and pretty insane at worst.

In my current project it depends on wether you are alive or not. Being a vampire with a living body is mostly great, but if you die things start going downhill fast.
 

Mindfire

Istar
I've given up ragging on Twilight for two reasons:

1. I'm just tired of it. Trolling the fans has lost its luster, and what's more, it's finally starting to fade away into relative obscurity and I don't want to jinx that by resurrecting it even in the form of mockery.

2. It's become apparent to me that the Twilight clones are what we should really be concerned about.
 

Tamwen

Troubadour
One of the best shows that showed how awful vampirism can be has always been Being Human, in my opinion. Yeah, the main vampire (Mitchell) is quite lovely and snarky and rather sweet, but drinking blood is a horrific addiction that you basically cannot get rid of. Drinking blood from anything other than a living, breathing human being (that will ultimately die when you feed) will do next to nothing to stop the ever-escalating cravings, and putting it off and putting it off results in your breaking point becoming horrifically dramatic and gory. And if you sincerely want to stop, it becomes emotionally draining on top of it all, because you (rightly, to be frank) consider yourself a monster with no redemption, because in this world, the idea of the Friendly Neighborhood Vampire is impossible and ludicrous.

All in all, Being Human is highly recommended for people who want sexy vampires without the stupid sparkly skin and lack of flaws. Because FRENCH THE LLAMA Aidan Turner is lovely but terribly heartbreaking in that show.

The British version, though. Not the American version.
 
I can't thank the few authors that have ruined the vampire reputation forever. It's reasons like this that make me worry about what I'm writing only because yes...there are vampires in it. There are also demons and virtually every dark creature that can be imagined- and they're not nice. Thankfully I know I'm not writing this for anyone else besides myself. I'd like to think that my story and my characters could change the minds of people who are "tired of vampires" but if it doesn't I'm alright with that too. I agree- it's everywhere and they have been reduced to either some floundering teen love story or some middle aged woman's wet dream.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
I can't thank the few authors that have ruined the vampire reputation forever. It's reasons like this that make me worry about what I'm writing only because yes...there are vampires in it. There are also demons and virtually every dark creature that can be imagined- and they're not nice. Thankfully I know I'm not writing this for anyone else besides myself. I'd like to think that my story and my characters could change the minds of people who are "tired of vampires" but if it doesn't I'm alright with that too. I agree- it's everywhere and they have been reduced to either some floundering teen love story or some middle aged woman's wet dream.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry much about this.... Write vamps as you'd want to read them and you're golden.
 

Lucas

Troubadour
Who here hates that vampires have been reduced to glittering vegans?

That is what is doomed to happen with everything that turns popular.

Teen girls love baddies, but only if baddies are redeemable. Teen girls also have an ability to see things in characters which aren't really there.
 
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