Advice On Publishing - Page Publishing Related

[Alchemist]

I recently decided to publish a book with Page Publishing but I've read negative things about them here and now I'm hesitant to go through with the project. They require about $3,000 in total, but not up-front, in payment plans. They describe that all of the costs go toward publishing the book and etc. What really got me was that they only collect 20 cents in royalties from every book sold; e-book or hardcover.

However, they are a Better Business Bereau accredited business and they have A LOT of VERIFIED BBB reviews saying how wonderful experience it was working with them. And there's more than 150+ such positive reviews which is making me very confused because I've heard a lot of you guys say this company is a scam.

Based on these reviews, do you guys think it would be a wise investment to work with them? Or would you guys prefer Amazon service such as Self Publishing | Amazon Kindle Direct Publishing.

Any and all feedback is appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[Alchemist]

I forgot to include the link to the BBB site: BBB Business Profile | Page Publishing, Inc. | Reviews and Complaints

 

[Svrtnsse]

I haven't dealt with Page Publishing myself, but I recall there was a thread about them a while back, here: https://mythicscribes.com/forums/publishing/7575-page-publishing.html

I didn't go through all of it now, but from what I remember reading of it, it's not encouraging.

 

[Chessie]

No! Noooooo! Run!

Save your $3k and do it all yourself, it's totally possible. Here's what I can share from my minimal self-publishing experience:

-Covers: it's easy to find a cover artist BUT you need to know what you're looking for. Go on Amazon Best Seller's Lists and look at the covers on books like yours. Get an idea of what readers visually look for here. I found one of my cover artists, who is simply amazing and affordable, on thebookcoverdesigner.com. They have a ton of high quality premades but many of their artists also do private sales. I was able to find a gal on there by checking out her portfolio and contacting her directly on the site. There are also many cover artists brought up on a simple Google search. Be prepared to spend money here though. Aside from editing this should be one of your highest costs but don't spend a crap ton either. I don't go over $200 per cover and that's for fantasy because unfortunately those tend to be more expensive. Just use good judgment.

-Editing: Know what you're looking for. Not all editors are created equal. Do you need a line editor? Copy editor? Dev editor? Don't spend money on that last one. I'd go with either of the first two. Prices will vary depending on experience. If you need an editor, I can PM you the name of one lady who has come highly recommended and is currently having a sale. I haven't used her yet so I can't vouch for her services personally. However, she's professional and has been doing this for a long time and is also a writer. PM if you're interested.

-Formatting: You can do this yourself. Scrivener, if you have the program, will do this for you but I don't think it's as nice as Jutoh. If you have $3k, then get Jutoh or Vellum (for Apple). I use Jutoh and it creates lovely ebooks. Vellum is what all my Mac friends use and they swear by it. This is a tricky part of the process. It's...not...easy. It will take time. It will be frustrating. But the more you use the programs, the easier the formatting becomes. It's worth saving your money and having more insight by doing this part.

-Promotions: How many books do you have? Honestly, promos aren't worth it with one book. Save your 3k, write a couple more books, then promo. If you want to make a bit of extra money you can go in Kindle Unlimited and have Amazon boost you up a bit. KU--as lame as being in select is--is the way to go for newbie authors without a list as a SHORT TERM business plan. Amazon will give you more visibility if you go this route and there are cycle promos you can do with the program as well (once every 90 days of a KU run).

If I had a budget of 3k, which is entirely too much for a debut novel of the Indie variety, I'd get a banging cover, professional editing, format yourself, get the product as professional packaged as possible, then pre-order if you have a list. If you don't have a list, I'd release with a minimal amount of promos to get a tiny visibility boost but honestly, if there aren't more books of yours for readers to go to afterwards then the promos are effectively pointless.

Which reminds me, get a website and an email list. These are an absolute must. Cultivate your audience over the long-term. And don't stop writing. Write a ton. This is the most important point of all. If you want visibility for your books, then you need to write more of them. Seriously man, you can do this all yourself. Save your hard earned cash and put it back into your business!

 

[Alchemist]

No! Noooooo! Run!

Save your $3k and do it all yourself, it's totally possible. Here's what I can share from my minimal self-publishing experience:

-Covers: it's easy to find a cover artist BUT you need to know what you're looking for. Go on Amazon Best Seller's Lists and look at the covers on books like yours. Get an idea of what readers visually look for here. I found one of my cover artists, who is simply amazing and affordable, on thebookcoverdesigner.com. They have a ton of high quality premades but many of their artists also do private sales. I was able to find a gal on there by checking out her portfolio and contacting her directly on the site. There are also many cover artists brought up on a simple Google search. Be prepared to spend money here though. Aside from editing this should be one of your highest costs but don't spend a crap ton either. I don't go over $200 per cover and that's for fantasy because unfortunately those tend to be more expensive. Just use good judgment.

-Editing: Know what you're looking for. Not all editors are created equal. Do you need a line editor? Copy editor? Dev editor? Don't spend money on that last one. I'd go with either of the first two. Prices will vary depending on experience. If you need an editor, I can PM you the name of one lady who has come highly recommended and is currently having a sale. I haven't used her yet so I can't vouch for her services personally. However, she's professional and has been doing this for a long time and is also a writer. PM if you're interested.

-Formatting: You can do this yourself. Scrivener, if you have the program, will do this for you but I don't think it's as nice as Jutoh. If you have $3k, then get Jutoh or Vellum (for Apple). I use Jutoh and it creates lovely ebooks. Vellum is what all my Mac friends use and they swear by it. This is a tricky part of the process. It's...not...easy. It will take time. It will be frustrating. But the more you use the programs, the easier the formatting becomes. It's worth saving your money and having more insight by doing this part.

-Promotions: How many books do you have? Honestly, promos aren't worth it with one book. Save your 3k, write a couple more books, then promo. If you want to make a bit of extra money you can go in Kindle Unlimited and have Amazon boost you up a bit. KU--as lame as being in select is--is the way to go for newbie authors without a list as a SHORT TERM business plan. Amazon will give you more visibility if you go this route and there are cycle promos you can do with the program as well (once every 90 days of a KU run).

If I had a budget of 3k, which is entirely too much for a debut novel of the Indie variety, I'd get a banging cover, professional editing, format yourself, get the product as professional packaged as possible, then pre-order if you have a list. If you don't have a list, I'd release with a minimal amount of promos to get a tiny visibility boost but honestly, if there aren't more books of yours for readers to go to afterwards then the promos are effectively pointless.

Which reminds me, get a website and an email list. These are an absolute must. Cultivate your audience over the long-term. And don't stop writing. Write a ton. This is the most important point of all. If you want visibility for your books, then you need to write more of them. Seriously man, you can do this all yourself. Save your hard earned cash and put it back into your business!

Thank you so much for the time you took to educate and advise me on all this. I was wondering what you think about Create Space and what ways I can advertise the book? I already have a website with a following which is updated on a consistent basis and I feel this website and the following I've gathered will be my biggest asset as far as promotion. Does Page Publishing even market your book? I wonder what they do with all that money...

 

[Chessie]

I don't know if they market their books. My understanding is that marketing falls solely on the author when it comes to these things. I've never checked out Create Space--basically paperbooks aren't something I've devoted time to just yet. I haven't published anything long enough (manuscript length) to warrant an investment in learning how to format for print, although that's about to change in 2017. Anyway, if you have a website and a list, that's wonderful. I'd look into a few options:

-placing your book on pre-order in order to get a few advanced sales.
-deciding about whether to go KU or wide
-look into InstaFreebie, which is up to $20 to grow your mailing (I'm in KU so can't use this but it's popular with my self-pub buddies, most who've gotten good results with this program). If you have money, I'd definitely look into spending a bit here.

There is a ton of research out there for self-pubbing. Do your best to educate yourself on the business then that way you don't have to rely on anyone else who may/not come through for you. $3k is a lot of money that you can put towards covers, editing, and promotions. Good luck!

 

[Devor]

If you have a huge amount of confidence in your work, $3,000 is not too much to pay for editing, cover art, and the works.

BUT NEVER give royalties to a company that is not investing money or services upfront.

The purpose of a royalty is to reward somebody for taking a risk on you. Risk = some of the rewards that come with ownership. If a publishing house gives you editing and an advance and the works, they're taking on the risk that your book will flop on them and they'll lose that investment. That's why they get the royalty.

If you're paying somebody $3k for services, where is the risk on their end that warrants a royalty? Nothing. Cut 'em.

 

[Devor]

However, they are a Better Business Bereau accredited business and they have A LOT of VERIFIED BBB reviews saying how wonderful experience it was working with them. And there's more than 150+ such positive reviews which is making me very confused because I've heard a lot of you guys say this company is a scam.

Unfortunately, the BBB just isn't the best resource for checking out a company nowadays, and a lot of people get scammed by trusting them. The BBB has to follow its guidelines and can only discuss whether or not a company does what it says it will do. If they're offering you a bum deal, the BBB can't tell you that.

 

[skip.knox]

I was going to recommend Preditors & Editors, but alas they appear to have given up the project. That's a real shame. We live in a world of content without curators.

But the advice here is solid. Stay away from anyone who wants the money up front. If they won't take a chance on you, why take a chance on them?

 

[Penpilot]

From my understanding, the general rule of thumb is money flows to the author.

If at any point a company is asking for it to flow the other way, be very wary.

As others have already mentioned, for that kind of money, you can hire people and do it yourself.

To me, this sounds a lot like a vanity press.

Edit: Found a thread on Absolute Write on this.

Page Publishing

 

[Chessie]

I'm glad for this discussion and the OP's good sense to ask before jumping into something like this. It's good that we can share this sort of information and keep our hard work protected from anyone trying to take our money. Good luck, OP!

 

[Alchemist]

You guys have been amazing and helpful! I did further detailed reserach on them and decided to self-publish thrugh CreateSpace where they will print the book when it's purchased

 

[skip.knox]

Do give e-books serious consideration as well!