alternatives to "demihuman" phrases.

[Prince of Spires]

I don't know anything about Warhammer 40k, so I'm not sure why it would matter. Is Xenos used as a slur or something in that?

Another reason why it might matter is if they have trademarked the term. I don't think they have in this instance, but in general you probably want to stay away from trademarked terms (within the realm of the trademark), unless you absolutely know what you're doing. Not knowing something exists is generally not an excuse in such a case. You don't want to get a letter from a big corporation that you're infringing on their trademark, combined with a demand to cease and desist and to pay whatever damages they percieve.

 

[pmmg]

Well, they cant trademark the term, only the logo, or the depiction of a xeno in their fiction.

Xenos is a Greek term, Warhammer doesn't own it. And it being a Greek term did not stop them from using it.

Which is to say, if the threat is something other, xeno is very likely a term that may be applied to it for the very reason stated, its Greek root word meaning.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Well, they cant trademark the term, only the logo, or the depiction of a xeno in their fiction.

Actually they can. Sort of. Just try selling a computer called an Apple, or candy called Mars. Apple is just a regular word, but Apple has trademarked it for all sorts of purposes, making it very hard to use it for anything company related.

In the same way it's possible to at least limit what people can do with other terms. It's why we have halflings in D&D instead of hobbits. And you'll probably run into Games Workshop if you write Space Fantasy featuring space marines. They could do the very same thing with Xenos, which would limit what you can do with the term. It's the whole purpose of trademarks.

Note: not a lawyer, just someone with an opinion. My main message is, just be careful.

 

[ixris]

Actually they can. Sort of. Just try selling a computer called an Apple, or candy called Mars. Apple is just a regular word, but Apple has trademarked it for all sorts of purposes, making it very hard to use it for anything company related.

In the same way it's possible to at least limit what people can do with other terms. It's why we have halflings in D&D instead of hobbits. And you'll probably run into Games Workshop if you write Space Fantasy featuring space marines. They could do the very same thing with Xenos, which would limit what you can do with the term. It's the whole purpose of trademarks.

Note: not a lawyer, just someone with an opinion. My main message is, just be careful.

It's unlikely in this context, though, since xenomorph (also often shortened to xenos) is common in several scifi settings, not least of which the Aliens fandom and the BBC series Hyperdrive.

In this context, it seems more like a generic term that is used in a highly specific context. It would be like if I had a chair monster and I called them Chairs, and then litigated the heck out of everyone who tried to mention chairs in their settings going forwards.

Xenomorph / Xenophobia are well understood terms outside of the 40k setting, and they predate the setting as well. Apples as a food predate apple computers, but Apple the company has registered itself as a legal entity.

Also not a lawyer, but I love copyright fights.

 

[Prince of Spires]

It's unlikely in this context, though, since xenomorph (also often shortened to xenos) is common in several scifi settings, not least of which the Aliens fandom and the BBC series Hyperdrive.

I agree. Though there's always Cockygate to prove that it doesn't always matter how accepted or common a term is... (in short, a romance author trademarked the word cocky and then went after other authors for using the word in their title etc: How an author trademarking the word “cocky” turned the romance novel industry inside out). Even if you're in your right, and the trademark is bullshit, it still might not be worth the hassle...

 

[ThinkerX]

If I remember right, 'demi-humans' originated with D&D, as did 'humanoids' to describe orcs and goblins.

 

[ixris]

I agree. Though there's always Cockygate to prove that it doesn't always matter how accepted or common a term is... (in short, a romance author trademarked the word cocky and then went after other authors for using the word in their title etc: How an author trademarking the word “cocky” turned the romance novel industry inside out). Even if you're in your right, and the trademark is bullshit, it still might not be worth the hassle...

I'm shocked I haven't heard of this previously, but now I need to know everything. Thanks for the link!

 

[pmmg]

If I remember right, 'demi-humans' originated with D&D, as did 'humanoids' to describe orcs and goblins.

The words may have an older origin, but I can't think of why I would have used them prior to playing D&D. I am sure they would have had an Fantasy or SciFi origin.

I'll stick with my original answer to this thread:

That we have a terminology that is human focused is clearly because humans are the only species of this type that actually exists to write them into stories, and so most things are in their/our perspective.


A better example to trademarking than Xenos, may be Eldars, which was used by Tolkien and then used in a different context by others, including Warhammer.

I think for some claims, one just has to fight. No one gets to own a word they didn't make.

 

[osimur_wil]

I like how Tolkien did it by calling them the Free Peoples, those who stand in opposition to the forces of darkness in Mordor.

 

[Daan Doornbos]

"Other races" and "non-human races" sound clumsy, but because race discrimination will play a role in the story line, I am needing a phrase that is an alternative to races-other-than-human.

Technically humans and dwarves and elves and such would be considered different species. And then within the same species you can differentiate between races, eg dark-elves, moon-elves, high-elves and so on.

But I agree that non-humans would probably consider the term 'demi-human' as negative.

I like Mortal species as well, because it is a nice way to round up all kinds of different species together (while ignoring biological differences)

So to play around with the Greek root, I would probably use some variation of xenos or just xenos itself for races to refer to groups outside of their race.

Ehhhh.... I think Warhammer 40k has ruined the ability to use Xenos.

Yep! Also, there's a retail company in the Netherlands with the same name, you'd have to compete with
.

 

[Prince of Spires]

The question then becomes, would an elf refer to them as elfoids?

 

[pmmg]

I think, to an elf, calling them human is insulting enough.

 

[barrowyarrow]

I'm fond of the practice of referring to any humanoid species as human and dividing it from there. Of course this comes with the caveat that you have to rename standard humans as we know them which can be a bit clunky.

 

[Daan Doornbos]

The question then becomes, would an elf refer to them as elfoids?

Somewhere, at some time, in Myth Drannor, that was the prevailing term. "Elfoids." lmao

I think, to an elf, calling them human is insulting enough

Elves would due to their immortality probably view themselves as closer to the Gods, would they not?

From that point of view humans would just be some temporary nuisance.

 

[Queshire]

After playing Honkai Star Rail I prefer long lived species that are just dudes. After all, no matter how long you live you wake up in the morning, go to work, have dinner and go to sleep at night like anyone else.

 

[Gurkhal]

I'll add to me elves might view shorter lived people more like how humans views their pets.

We love and care for them but we are aware they will be gone long before we so we don't really see them as people in the same way as we see other humans. Or at least that's how I see it. The fact that generations comes and goes while elves lives on is something which would influence how the elves views other species.

 

[Dantalion]

Hylic (Material beings driven by base instincts.)
It's a term that refers to those who cling to earthly desires and a lower existence.

Archspawn (Implies innate corruption/filth.)

Demi-spawn (Self explanatory)

Rendling (Implies something stuck in-between.)

Chimere (Offshoot of 'Chimera')

 

[ShadeZ]

I dislike the assumption in many fantasy settings that humans are "the" race and all other races are just modifications (elves are humans + pointy ears, centaurs are humans + horse body, mermaids, lamia, harpy, etc. are all mixes of humans). Even without including hybrid-type races, there is a tendency to lump elves, fairies, beastkin, dwarves and the like as merely demihumans. Since demihumans directly translates as either half human or inferior human, it would make sense that the other races would not be fond of the phrase as essentially a slur, but what other alternatives are there? "Other races" and "non-human races" sound clumsy, but because race discrimination will play a role in the story line, I am needing a phrase that is an alternative to races-other-than-human.

For reference, the intended races in my story are Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Beastkin, Draconids (lizardmen), Garuda (avian bipeds), and Demons. Bonus points for suggestions that the races could use to refer to the outside races - non-elves, non-demons, etc.

Edit: I am a bit loath to go with mortal races as there is a component of apotheosis whereby individuals from any race can become immortal.

Unfortunately this may not be super helpful but the way I did it is made them completely incomparable. Case and point my face are magic incarnate which can take basically any form but often for glamours sake they take a form most comfortable to the viewer. They are quite "eldrich" but to call them evil/sinister or good/benevolent wouldn't really fit as they do not possess the same construct of morality that humans do either and instead possess if anything a sense of balance and depending on which magic they originate from they are aggressors/defenders. The true names of fae especially the "fae princes**" are so powerful that it can temporarily cause them/their true existance/their realm to coexist withthe physical world (so if I say Talyis for example it would become instantly as dark as a moonless night and the physical world would seem to overlap with a black forest of glowing dreamscape like trees and flowers and glowing red butterflies (not friendly do not pet!) But, in sort I make my "non human" races so very "OTHER" that you wouldn't think to compare them. My descriptions follow a similar stance my centaurs for example might be described as

"It had the lower half of a beast resembling an equine somewhat but massive, taller and stronger than even the most powerful of draft horses and ten times as wild, this was not a peaceful herbivorous creature that had been cowed by humans, this was an unbroken and proud thing fierce and wild, if that was terrifying enough the top half was odd almost humanoid but at the same time, wild, fierce, untamed and defiant in its nature. A predator was recognizable by any skin and this was truly an apex among all the wild things." (Not human, given humanoid (sort of) qualities but that's all. Hope this helps!

(**a term humans made up to describe the "síthichi" which are the core beings of each realm/the physical form of their realms (darkness/light/fire etc incarnate, it's a fae who shares a mind and semi physical being with the very mind of that element itself(and often argues with it or seems to be talking out loud))