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Bing Chat. The Great Worldbuilder

Demesnedenoir

Myth Weaver
I think AI could be useful in world building and very effective if used well, but I still think we're a generation or two away from what I'd find useful. Namely because I've been working o the same world for so long, heh heh. I am very curious, if I had the time, to try and use it to help build a conlang. BUT, I really try hard to avoid that time sink. If I got too deep, I might not make it out, heh heh.

And on the other hand, the AI is incapable of true creativity. Now! that said, once a person can train their own personal AI... so say, I could feed it my own cultures and ideas, have the AI remember it, use it, and spin things under very consistent parameters and within guides I set up, then it becomes a serious tool of creation. AI wouldn't come up with the pantheon of the Four Queens in my world because without knowing the world and its rules and history, it wouldn't be possible. Get some elements sure, but... No. Once it's a trainable AI assistant, then watch out on the world building front.

I did manage to spin a little folk tale based on the Hyena and Hare of African folk stories using Bing AI as a tiny bit of inspiration, more of triggering an idea than using anything it came up with.
 
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When I'm working I get insights from what I write or read -- connections, relationships. It's discoveries, soul enriching moments... I get that a lot. And that's part of my growing up as a fellow of humankind. I wonder what would I get reading AI. If the guy, AI, is writing (e.g. what I now I'm doing) I guess I wouldn't be able to catch those fleeting moments. I mean, I write, my mind (emotion) flashes, I stop and write it down -- sometimes are words in my head other times is an image. It's like enlightenment. Nearest to it is my "Buddha moments" (meditation) and siestas. I'd appreciate AI to get me to Nirvana without much ado. (To be honest I'm delaying it. No, I don't want it yet! I gotta do "something" first: my own journey.)
 
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pmmg

Myth Weaver
AI, like all things, will have good and bad aspects to it.

I am sure it will be helpful in a lot of ways. But...if you come to me having used AI and saying look at the cool world I invented, I can assure, I will not think very much of your effort. You need to matter more than it. The more you rely on it, the less likely that will be.
 

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
AI, like all things, will have good and bad aspects to it.

I am sure it will be helpful in a lot of ways. But...if you come to me having used AI and saying look at the cool world I invented, I can assure, I will not think very much of your effort. You need to matter more than it. The more you rely on it, the less likely that will be.
What's the difference between a team of humans creating a world and a single human using an AI creating a world? Neither relies on their individual thoughts to construct it. If anything the latter still relies more on their own input than the former.
 

pmmg

Myth Weaver
Well. if you go to a team of people, and come out saying look what I created, I will think equally as less of you.
 

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
Sure that's an issue of transparency. I think it is good practice to be honest about any assistance you receive. No reason not to include an AI in an acknowledgements section or foreword.
 

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
No it can't, you're overestimating the AI by a lot. It gives suggestions and can't veer too deep into a fictional world. It is a tool, not magic.
 

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
And on that note, why does anyone need anyone? Someone else can always do it. Seems needlessly fatalistic.
 

pmmg

Myth Weaver
Well, my first asked the question, why do I need you? and how long with that last?

AI may not be all there today, but it will be soon.

Its not a question of who needs me. Its a question of what can 'you' do?

If you use AI to do all the work, you were not needed. If you use AI to do the work and want me to think highly of you, I wont.

Its not much different than playing someone in Chess, but having a computer to suggest the best moves to you. Maybe you did not use all of them, but when you win, am I supposed to think you were good chess player? Well, I won't.

We are here, because our hope is to express our own creativity. I don't care what you can get AI to do. There is nothing special in that. I want what you can do, and I hope to push you towards it.


But you know, these AI threads...there all going to be the same. AI, I am sure will be quite prominent on this forum and others. And to me, its just going around in the same circle. You decide what kind of artist you wish to be, and the value of yourself in your creations. I will decide what I think about it. If my opinion maters, the more AI you use, the less I will think.

Maybe I will post these questions to an AI, and just feed the answers into the forum. That way it will seem like I had useful answers without the hard part of putting myself into them.
 

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
So reading wikipedia and britannica pages by myself is "what I can do" in terms of research but having a programme that can condense that information and make suggestions based on it is worthy of dismissing an author outright? If I were to google synonyms in my second language (English) I am not cheating, but when I ask a bot I am? If we are in the age of literary cheating, Diderot ushered it in with the first encyclopedia. Bing chat as a tool is great but you're hyping it up to an unnecessary degree.

There are robots that can do surgery, is the surgeon operating that robot all of a sudden not worthy of any praise? What about a construction worker using a drill? Sure couldn't do that as fast with his own bare hands. Bing Chat is the next evolution of the encyclopedia and the thesaurus, and both of those are perfectly fine to me.
 
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Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
I think AI could be useful in world building and very effective if used well, but I still think we're a generation or two away from what I'd find useful. Namely because I've been working o the same world for so long, heh heh. I am very curious, if I had the time, to try and use it to help build a conlang. BUT, I really try hard to avoid that time sink. If I got too deep, I might not make it out, heh heh.

And on the other hand, the AI is incapable of true creativity. Now! that said, once a person can train their own personal AI... so say, I could feed it my own cultures and ideas, have the AI remember it, use it, and spin things under very consistent parameters and within guides I set up, then it becomes a serious tool of creation. AI wouldn't come up with the pantheon of the Four Queens in my world because without knowing the world and its rules and history, it wouldn't be possible. Get some elements sure, but... No. Once it's a trainable AI assistant, then watch out on the world building front.

I did manage to spin a little folk tale based on the Hyena and Hare of African folk stories using Bing AI as a tiny bit of inspiration, more of triggering an idea than using anything it came up with.
I've played around with conlanging on Bing Chat but it seemed to have difficulty grasping how to do that or what I was requesting. This could be a case of me not knowing the right inputs. As a trainable AI assistant such technology could be great for populating background worldbuilding. I reckon that will become reality once the rpg gaming industry gets its hands on the AI. Maybe thereafter versions for individuals could come out.
 

Demesnedenoir

Myth Weaver
As much of a pain in the ass as it is to get a basic concept across to the art AI, I can't imagine a full, epic fantasy novel with twisting subplots, LMAO
 

pmmg

Myth Weaver
So reading wikipedia and britannica pages by myself is "what I can do" in terms of research but having a programme that can condense that information and make suggestions based on it is worthy of dismissing an author outright? If I were to google synonyms in my second language (English) I am not cheating, but when I ask a bot I am? If we are in the age of literary cheating, Diderot ushered it in with the first encyclopedia. Bing chat as a tool is great but you're hyping it up to an unnecessary degree.

There are robots that can do surgery, is the surgeon operating that robot all of a sudden not worthy of any praise? What about a construction worker using a drill? Sure couldn't do that as fast with his own bare hands. Bing Chat is the next evolution of the encyclopedia and the thesaurus, and both of those are perfectly fine to me.

Good use of 'so', but that is only to misrepresent what I have said. You may find it a good research tool. I wont know. That is up to you to make out for yourself. As writers, I would only caution that AI offers many things, and among them is a path that makes you less important. If you think you will ask AI to create, and then use that, and it is the best way forward, then use the AI. I will just think less of your effort.
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
The work of writing is a complicated thing. I use pictures to help in my writing. Some are for inspiration, some are to check historical accuracy, and many wind up somewhere between. Some used to come from books. Most now come from the internet.

However one characterizes that, it is surely not me alone.

You may object that is not writing, that is the act of writing the very words that's at issue here. But few writer's of novels will take the Ai-generated text without amendment or review. Heck there are those who think less of human generated text that hasn't passed under the review of an editor.

I would summarize thus: my role, my importance if you wish, is central but not exclusive.
 
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