Can self-insert be done well?

[NerdyCavegirl]

This is somewhat inspired by the recent Mary Sue thread, a term that I think is only very relevant in fanfiction. My most clear concise definition would be "an OC inserted into a fanfic primarily to draw attention to themself, often violating many rules and conventions of the canon universe and demonizing any characters in opposition; many but not all are anachronistic author avatars with nonsensical names". But can a self-insert be a good character, or is it impossible to write oneself objectively? While I'm sure this thread can apply to any fiction, I strongly try to avoid self-insert in original writing yet semi-proudly admit to being guilty in fanfics. That said, I also strive to follow the rules set by canon, challenging myself to see what new things can be done with said rules, and to write myself as a good character (as good as I truly am, at least) with challenging flaws and as little spotlight as possible while still having a useful role. But can that really turn out okay?

 

[Ireth]

I'd like to think it can. I have a Silmarillion fanfic in the works which stars a self-insert, and I'm doing my best to balance my good points and bad points.

For instance, I am very nearsighted, which puts me at a distinct disadvantage when I'm situated among elves (even more so than a human with 20/20 vision would be). I also have autism, and my behavior is remarked on as unusual by the elves (and not in an "aww, she's so cute and quirky" way, but an "I think there's something wrong with her" way), such as difficulty in expressing myself verbally, as well as a tendency to cry at the drop of a hat. I also struggle with things like stealth (even my human friends IRL say I have a heavy step for someone of my size), and while I love archery, I'm nowhere close to perfect. This gets me and my elven friends into trouble.

On the other hand, I have some knowledge of writing and speaking Sindarin, and I pick more of it up at a decent pace throughout the story, as well as teaching a few of the elves to speak English (with less success than you might expect, given the above issue of verbal communication). I do make a few close friends, but I'm not universally adored; a few of the elves are scornful, which is par for the course as far as LOTR/Silmarillion canon is concerned, but most are just kind of indifferent. The only one who outright HATES me is the antagonist, who's an ass to basically everyone regardless. My self-insert is also not the sole POV character (though those sections are in first person), and my friends do have their own concerns and lives that don't revolve around me.

Sooo, yeah. The story is nowhere near complete yet, and I haven't posted it anywhere for that reason. But I'm hoping not to get too much flak for it when I do finally finish and post the dang thing.

 

[X Equestris]

Almost anything can be done well. I've read a few self-insert fanfics that were pretty good. However, they're really easy to mess up, and when they go wrong they really, really how wrong. By far the worst Gary Stu I ever saw was in one such self-insert.

It comes down to balance. Too many people are unwilling to take a good hard look at their flaws, and instead they project an extra-idealized version of themselves into the story.

 

[NerdyCavegirl]

Huh I'm autistic and I'm extremely nearsighted as well; sometimes include the latter, sometimes don't. Regardless, I always write myself as being arrogant about assets and extremely insecure about flaws, though not openly insecure. The outward arrogance is mostly an attempt to distract others from the extra flaw of insecurity, since I have what seems to be a perfectionist complex. I'm also overly methodical and obsessive about current tasks/topics to the point of being blind to other problems like thirst or hunger, annoyingly analytical about even the pettiest things, and clueless about the subtleties of emotional expression and social cues, analyzing people as mercilessly as anything else, and thus never truly understanding them because I refuse to give into the unpredicable illogical nature of emotions and just feel things.

 

[Ireth]

I'm also overly methodical and obsessive about current tasks/topics to the point of being blind to other problems like thirst or hunger, annoyingly analytical about even the pettiest things, and clueless about the subtleties of emotional expression and social cues [...]

Yes. Yes. That is me also. Missing meals comes up in my story as well. I'm struggling with the lack of social/emotional clues thing, since the self-insert's portions of the story are written in first person and I want things to be objectively clear to the reader even if they aren't clear to character!me. It's a hard balance to strike.

 

[NerdyCavegirl]

That refusal to deal with emotions has led to an inability to control my own, resulting in childlike enthusiasm over nature, food, and colorful things, an extremely violent temper, and often this unidentifiable nervous feeling I just want gone. The enthusiasm isn't so bad, but the temper causes me to act out impulsively (including what I call "impulsive analyzing", methodically picking people apart in the heat of anger) and violate my own love of planning and organization. Needless to say I don't get along well with others, so when I do bond with people, my intense fear of losing them causes other emotional and social hazards. I'm also impatient, stubborn, and hyperactive. On the bright side, I am incredibly loyal to those I do care for, considered by many to seem both childishly adorable and wise beyond my years, and highly intelligent, particularly in creative problem-solving and the art of language. Not so much at math. Sound like a Mary Sue?

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Huh I'm autistic and I'm extremely nearsighted as well; sometimes include the latter, sometimes don't. Regardless, I always write myself as being arrogant about assets and extremely insecure about flaws, though not openly insecure. The outward arrogance is mostly an attempt to distract others from the extra flaw of insecurity, since I have what seems to be a perfectionist complex. I'm also overly methodical and obsessive about current tasks/topics to the point of being blind to other problems like thirst or hunger, annoyingly analytical about even the pettiest things, and clueless about the subtleties of emotional expression and social cues, analyzing people as mercilessly as anything else, and thus never truly understanding them because I refuse to give into the unpredicable illogical nature of emotions and just feel things.

I am, too! Pleasure to meet you.

I think it's entirely possible to write a self-insert well. I believe that there are more self-insert characters than we suspect for the reason that they have been well done.

Also I think that in a way many characters are self-insert. We as writers give aspects of our personalities, both positive and negative, to our characters.

 

[NerdyCavegirl]

I see the possibility of me diverting the topic away from self-insert by inserting myself too much into the thread if I don't watch myself. xD Whether or not I write myself as a Mary Sue, I sure as hell have a bad brooding narcissist streak, which I at least refuse to sugarcoat.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

No reason whatsoever to sugar coat that trait. In fact, I think it would be a very interesting trait in any character.

 

[NerdyCavegirl]

I am, too! Pleasure to meet you.

I think it's entirely possible to write a self-insert well. I believe that there are more self-insert characters than we suspect for the reason that they have been well done.

Also I think that in a way many characters are self-insert. We as writers give aspects of our personalities, both positive and negative, to our characters.

Huh I've been on this site 2 months now and I can't say I recall encountering you before. I swear it's like no one in town understands why I don't understand them, but I run into others with similar "issues" (I prefer "gifts differing") online all the time. I agree that all is self-insert to an extent, because it's definitely a challenge to write someone entirely unlike oneself. But I assume there's some thin line between self-insert and an author avatar, and I guess author avatars are what I'm specifically referring to.

 

[NerdyCavegirl]

Yes. Yes. That is me also. Missing meals comes up in my story as well. I'm struggling with the lack of social/emotional clues thing, since the self-insert's portions of the story are written in first person and I want things to be objectively clear to the reader even if they aren't clear to character!me. It's a hard balance to strike.

Yeah that really is a hard thing to write, really anything involving body language or facial expression as well. While I can oddly enough deduce quite well how others would think and go about life in my typical analytical manner, to the point of accurately taking personality tests for loved ones and characters, I still can't wrap my head around the motives for behavior besides my own or implement my knowledge by reading people in social situations. I honestly can't tell if people are sad unless they're crying and I still take my uncle's sarcasm seriously after 21 years. xD

 

[NerdyCavegirl]

Actually I think being proud of "accurately taking personality tests" like that makes me nigh-telepathic really kinda proves my point about analyzing people getting in the way of truly knowing them. xD I know damn well people go beyond 4 letters, but it's so much easier to boil them down into facts and statistics instead of trying to feel for them.

 

[Jerseydevil]

I actually need to have a self insert. In my earlier attempts, my main characters would act and respond too much like me. To remedy this, I created a character that has my traits and gave him a supporting role. The main character would naturally have to have a different personality, solving the problem.

To make it not a blatantly obvious version of me and to not make him a Mary Sue (Marty Sue? Gary Sue?), I exaggerated my traits. I'm average looking, the character is scarred and ugly. I weight train 1 1/2 hours a day, the character trains three. I'm eccentric, the character is slightly unhinged and psychotic.

I also find it fun in a way to put "myself" in weird situations that I will never actually experience (like fighting hordes of demons from Hell, rogue fairies, vampires, and other evil creatures with an unbreakable sword, a Remington 870, and a Colt .45 1911 while humming Bruce Springsteen). Its like a video game of my own making. I don't know if this helps, but here you go anyway.

 

[Miskatonic]

I don't know if it's really inserting my personality into the story, but I do have an ideal hero type that I like to write. It's not some type of wish fulfillment though. Given I've never been in life or death situations I would most likely be flattering myself if I gave the impression that I would take "x' action in those circumstances.