Character Arc Quandary

[pmmg]

Woe, this is my first attempt at a fantasy novel so will probably end up in the bin. I really don’t want it to!

Just a stepping stone to the great stuff that comes after.

 

[The Dark One]

Maybe the two women look similar and the noble impersonates the peasant in some magical situation but is ill-equipped so becomes magical at a high cost...

 

[Mad Swede]

I’m sure this is a rhetorical question, but it’s as simple and living close by. Character #1 is a peasant farmer who works character #2’s father’s land. They are intrigued by each other’s lives and form a sort of forbidden friendship. My perspective is that friendships can form across social boundaries. However there are things that can occur in any friendship such as jealousies, resentment and a lot of unsaid ‘stuff’.

My question wasn't rhetorical. What I'm trying to ask about is your setting. How are relationships across that sort of social boundary seen? Is it OK being friends but not being lovers? You know, like some of the relationships portrayed in The Go-Between? Those sorts of social mores might be a reason to try to escape an arranged marriage by studying magic. Wanting to know how others live their lives might be a reason to strike up a friendship with one of her fathers tenants. And differences in expectations and social rules can complicate a friendship like that, which can be used to give real depth to some aspects of your story.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Woe, this is my first attempt at a fantasy novel so will probably end up in the bin. I really don’t want it to!

It doesn't have to. Harry Potter was a first novel (though rewritten and polished many times).

Having the two characters go through the same process of discovering their magic sounds a little simple, a bit on the nose.

It doesn't have to be in my opinion. Already just the fact that they're from different backgrounds gives a very different perspective on the magic. A good example of this is Petition, by Delilah Waan. It's a story about how magic is dominated by the nobility, simply because they get all the advantages in training and have rigged the system to favor them. The protagonist comes from a poor family who has sacrificed everything to get her magical training, and she struggles against the rigged system. It's great because it shows how these different people approach the same thing in very different ways.

However, it works because it fits the setting. If in this setting everyone magical gets the same treatment, then the story becomes a lot different. Same if the class divide is a lot smaller. So a lot depends on the setting.

There are themes, but no lessons. There aren’t any lessons to be learned from ASOIAF for example, or none that I can think of. Because it’s an intended series with multiple POV characters, it’s harder to define one path, as there are multiple paths so to speak.

I always thing "lesson" is the wrong term for it, because it's not always a lesson the writer wants the reader to learn about his life, but rather a lesson about how the world in the story works. The first ASOIAF book, A Game of Thrones has a very clear lesson, in that it shows the reader that in a back-stabbing world filled with political intrigue, being noble and honest and straightforward is a sure way to die.

It's not a lesson you want your readers to follow perhaps, but it's sure something that Ned Stark should have learned...

That said, I don't know what the right term for it would be.

 

[Finchbearer]

It doesn't have to. Harry Potter was a first novel (though rewritten and polished many times).


It doesn't have to be in my opinion. Already just the fact that they're from different backgrounds gives a very different perspective on the magic. A good example of this is Petition, by Delilah Waan. It's a story about how magic is dominated by the nobility, simply because they get all the advantages in training and have rigged the system to favor them. The protagonist comes from a poor family who has sacrificed everything to get her magical training, and she struggles against the rigged system. It's great because it shows how these different people approach the same thing in very different ways.

However, it works because it fits the setting. If in this setting everyone magical gets the same treatment, then the story becomes a lot different. Same if the class divide is a lot smaller. So a lot depends on the setting.


I always thing "lesson" is the wrong term for it, because it's not always a lesson the writer wants the reader to learn about his life, but rather a lesson about how the world in the story works. The first ASOIAF book, A Game of Thrones has a very clear lesson, in that it shows the reader that in a back-stabbing world filled with political intrigue, being noble and honest and straightforward is a sure way to die.

It's not a lesson you want your readers to follow perhaps, but it's sure something that Ned Stark should have learned...

That said, I don't know what the right term for it would be.

It would be nice if this work could make it as a first / debut novel as it’s the first one I started working on, and it’s gone through quite a few evolutions, so who know, but I do have several side projects on the go, because it keeps me fresh, (and I like to complicate things).

I’ll check out Petition. Its description does mirror the system I have in place, where historically more nobles have been associated with magic, and the institutions of learning are prestigious places for nobles to become scholarly, but I have it where more peasants and low-born are gifted with magic, creating a kind of imbalance. The halls of learning are obliged to open their doors to low-born now, and the social dynamics are shifting. This mirrors the education system here in modern day UK, which is perhaps more subtext than any kind of lesson, but I like that I’ve worked that into the story.

Perhaps when I think of ‘lesson’ I think of moral lessons, of which there are none in my work. Or readers can take what they want from it.

 

[Jackarandajam]

The magic that character #2 is able to wield is uncommon, strange and unpredictable right from the get go, and her decisions and behaviour influences how her magic is used and played out, so having it that she possibly acquired it from external means (most likely a homebrewed ritual based on something she heard) means that this *could* be quite easily inserted into the storyline without having to change major plot beats.

The homebrewed thing got me thinking...

What if the peasant, by hook, crook, & substantial sacrifice, homebrewed their magic? That could increase the realism of their desire to get out of their situation, and could be played into their niggling feeling of being a "faker." Another reason to make them feel like they "don't belong" as they progress.

Character 2, born into nobility, could have been born with their magic, but something they consider to be trite and boring. They push the limits of magic.
Therefore character 1 looks at character 2 and thinks "you should be happy, you have everything, you actually deserve all this, you actually belong."
Character 2 looks at character 1 and thinks "You're unique, your magic is wild and new, you went your own way and aren't held down by the expectations of your birth, you have everything I wish I had."

Note: like if character 1 and peasant friends slowly and carefully over the course of years steal and sometimes even buy all the ingredients to cook up a spell that will indwell the recipient with magic, according to some weird old tome that noone suspects of being legit. Maybe the last ingredient is "something that belongs to someone magical" and ch1 either steals it from ch2 or is given it in friendship, before or after they meet, ch2 not knowing why ch1 wants it.
That would be another thing that would hang torturously around in the back of ch1s head.

Edit: ESPECIALLY if ch2s magic takes a weird turn after ch1s ritual, and she imagines its her fault.

 

[Finchbearer]

Maybe the two women look similar and the noble impersonates the peasant in some magical situation but is ill-equipped so becomes magical at a high cost...

They have very different physical attributes.

 

[Finchbearer]

The homebrewed thing got me thinking...

What if the peasant, by hook, crook, & substantial sacrifice, homebrewed their magic? That could increase the realism of their desire to get out of their situation, and could be played into their niggling feeling of being a "faker." Another reason to make them feel like they "don't belong" as they progress.

Character 2, born into nobility, could have been born with their magic, but something they consider to be trite and boring. They push the limits of magic.
Therefore character 1 looks at character 2 and thinks "you should be happy, you have everything, you actually deserve all this, you actually belong."
Character 2 looks at character 1 and thinks "You're unique, your magic is wild and new, you went your own way and aren't held down by the expectations of your birth, you have everything I wish I had."

Note: like if character 1 and peasant friends slowly and carefully over the course of years steal and sometimes even buy all the ingredients to cook up a spell that will indwell the recipient with magic, according to some weird old tome that noone suspects of being legit. Maybe the last ingredient is "something that belongs to someone magical" and ch1 either steals it from ch2 or is given it in friendship, before or after they meet, ch2 not knowing why ch1 wants it.
That would be another thing that would hang torturously around in the back of ch1s head.

Edit: ESPECIALLY if ch2s magic takes a weird turn after ch1s ritual, and she imagines its her fault.

Some interesting things to think about. I suppose I wanted to subvert some tropes, or something along those lines. Usually fantasy follows a noble born female character, because I’m guessing it’s more or less boring to follow a peasant. However, I have made it so the noble character has a wild type of magic with unpredictable results, which kind of re-subverts things. Maybe.

And the peasant character has a very ordinary type of magic, but it still thrusts her into a different world where the course of her life takes her far from peasantry and doldrums.

 

[pmmg]

It doesn't have to. Harry Potter was a first novel (though rewritten and polished many times).


It doesn't have to be in my opinion. Already just the fact that they're from different backgrounds gives a very different perspective on the magic. A good example of this is Petition, by Delilah Waan. It's a story about how magic is dominated by the nobility, simply because they get all the advantages in training and have rigged the system to favor them. The protagonist comes from a poor family who has sacrificed everything to get her magical training, and she struggles against the rigged system. It's great because it shows how these different people approach the same thing in very different ways.

However, it works because it fits the setting. If in this setting everyone magical gets the same treatment, then the story becomes a lot different. Same if the class divide is a lot smaller. So a lot depends on the setting.


I always thing "lesson" is the wrong term for it, because it's not always a lesson the writer wants the reader to learn about his life, but rather a lesson about how the world in the story works. The first ASOIAF book, A Game of Thrones has a very clear lesson, in that it shows the reader that in a back-stabbing world filled with political intrigue, being noble and honest and straightforward is a sure way to die.

It's not a lesson you want your readers to follow perhaps, but it's sure something that Ned Stark should have learned...

That said, I don't know what the right term for it would be.

Mr. Martin is not really finished with his story. It may be by the end, he shows that Mr. Stark had the right values after all.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Usually fantasy follows a noble born female character, because I’m guessing it’s more or less boring to follow a peasant.

The reason for following nobles more than commoners is that you want your character to be able to influence the course of the story. And a peasant generally doesn't have such agency. Things just happen to them, whereas a noble gets to make decisions and actually do stuff.

There are plenty of peasant protagonists of course. The Chosen One trope often starts with the farmboy (or girl) who ends up the hero. The Wheel of Time and Star Wars both start with a peasant who is the main protagonist. But as the chosen one, they can influence matters.

Mr. Martin is not really finished with his story. It may be by the end, he shows that Mr. Stark had the right values after all.

Who knows. We'll see if he ever finishes the story. Though I tend to judge books as a single, complete thing, even if it's part of a series. Also, I think Martin has commented that part of the idea behind ASOIAF was that he thought plenty of the traditional fantasy kings were naive, and he wanted to show how that could be abused by others. Or something like that.

 

[Finchbearer]

The reason for following nobles more than commoners is that you want your character to be able to influence the course of the story. And a peasant generally doesn't have such agency. Things just happen to them, whereas a noble gets to make decisions and actually do stuff.

There are plenty of peasant protagonists of course. The Chosen One trope often starts with the farmboy (or girl) who ends up the hero. The Wheel of Time and Star Wars both start with a peasant who is the main protagonist. But as the chosen one, they can influence matters.

Yes I can see that, although to my mind it’s also about the setting itself, because the writer can describe magnificent castles or palaces, and opulent clothing. That maybe makes for more compelling writing / reading compared to describing a hovel and unwashed linen…

The trope that does still often get used, and I’m not sure of any official name, but it’s probably something along the lines of Cinderella, where a noble born young woman poses as a peasant or is forced in some way into poorer circumstances, but because she’s actually noble, she has all the humbleness of a peasant, but all the ‘grace’ of someone high born, and I wanted to avoid that in my own storytelling.

 

[jjxtra]

I like the idea of having two ways to gain magic, so lean toward external access. However, the biggest thing I'd be interested in, is what extreme lengths the character would go to acquire the magic? Would they steal? Kill? Sacrifice treasured things?

 

[Finchbearer]

I like the idea of having two ways to gain magic, so lean toward external access. However, the biggest thing I'd be interested in, is what extreme lengths the character would go to acquire the magic? Would they steal? Kill? Sacrifice treasured things?

Ooh, my initial thoughts are that she sacrifices part of herself in order to gain her magic.

 

[jjxtra]

I love this idea! More powerful the magic, greater the sacrifice.

 

[pmmg]

Giving up something of herself to have it speaks of something dark. I think there would be a lot of things to discover in that.

 

[katelynschoumaker]

I really like the idea of having character 2 acquire her powers through a different means! I think it's a really interesting dynamic to have one character 'gain' or be 'gifted' their power while the other has to 'earn' it. This would open a door to the possibility of conflict between the two, especially since their personalities are already so different. 1 wants to rise from the ashes, and 2 wants to avoid falling from grace - so when you throw magic into the mix, where 1 didn't have to do much to gain her power while 2 has to fight tooth-and-nail for it, you end up with a really cool concept! Readers will wonder if the difference between the characters will drive them apart or bring them closer, if character #1 will help character #2 or focus on her own interests, and if character #2 will be so disgruntled about it that she turns to less-than-honorable activities. This could branch off in so many different directions!!