-
Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!
cliches and stereotypes
- Thread starter spectre
- Start date
You don't have to avoid anything. But I do think it's important to recognise when you're using these things, so you can either go with them or try to subvert them in some way. It's about understanding the tools because that's what cliches and stereotypes are. They're tools that can be used poorly or to great effect.
- Thread starter
- #3
glutton
Inkling
'Female lead set up as a token badass only to wind up useless and not be a badass at all in the end.' I mean, I'm sure there are ways it can be done well too but...
Tom
Istar
Old male mentor. Can't the mentor be young? Or female?
Guy
Inkling
Yeah, that's a big pet peeve of mine, too. Another is annoying characters who are ostensibly on the protagonist's side but are either completely useless or detrimental to the protagonist. They are almost always sidekicks or love interests. They are typically there for comic relief, but this usually fails. Their only possible use is for the audience to cheer when they finally get squashed, but that rarely happens. One of these days I just might write a scene in a story where the protagonist finally loses it and decapitates his annoying sidekick.
Feo Takahari
Auror
To try to talk utility:
How to Train Your Dragon, specifically the movie, contrasts an FMC who's a living embodiment of the old ways with an MMC who represents the new ways. The FMC is clearly a "strong" character, because brute strength is what their society values. The MMC is the one who ultimately saves them all, because he can think outside the box and recognize when their traditions are holding them back.
Calumon from Digimon Tamers is one of the cutesiest characters I've ever seen. Everything about him is adorable. He's also a good friend, smarter than he lets on, and, in the final arc, the last barrier separating one of the MCs from completely giving in to despair.
Ultimately, I think it's about knowing what you're doing, and making sure you're using things for a reason.
cupiscent
Sage
The problem with using any sort of often-used element in a story - be it the Farmboy Of Destiny or just the term "prophecy" - is that you run the risk of the reader going, "Oh, I've read this story before and am bored now." So use whatever you like, but make sure you include heaps of evidence of how this story is new, different, interesting and must absolutely be read. 
And it should probably be stand-out obvious, because I did my monthly browse of the fantasy shelves at my local bookshop last night, and there were two books I picked up (because they were new) and read the blurb and went, "Blah blah evil demonic forces of darkness, blah blah prophesied heroes, blah blah save them all, yawn." And put them back down again. I can't even tell you who or what they were. I have forgotten them.
And it should probably be stand-out obvious, because I did my monthly browse of the fantasy shelves at my local bookshop last night, and there were two books I picked up (because they were new) and read the blurb and went, "Blah blah evil demonic forces of darkness, blah blah prophesied heroes, blah blah save them all, yawn." And put them back down again. I can't even tell you who or what they were. I have forgotten them.
glutton
Inkling
I'm reminded of the fact that the two lead 20-something males in my WIP have a 40-something male mentor type figure... who dies. I guess maybe it's mitigated by my female lead who's really the star of the show not having a mentor and being purely self-made? As in survived in the wilderness from age 7 and teaching herself to kill King Kong-sized monsters self-made XD
Tom
Istar
Sweet. I have an old mentor in my WIP, but he doesn't come into the story much, having given his apprentice a "nudge out the door", so to speak. In a parody fantasy I wrote a while ago, there was a 200-year-old wizard who mentored up-and-coming young mages for a living. He had magically de-aged himself to a twentysomething just so he'd have the mental and physical energy to keep up with the kids.
cupiscent
Sage
Going to be played by Liam Neeson in the movie?
glutton
Inkling
Going to be played by Liam Neeson in the movie?
He's a balding dude with a ponytail who has no fighting scenes and dies a chapter after actually appearing, so probably not lol.
IrelandBeaver
Scribe
I actually did that with my latest story. When I was first thinking about it, I did have an older, male mentor for my MC, but I decided to change the mentor character to be the MC's cousin, who is a female and is about 5 years older than the MC. I based her character on this group of girls who were in the same youth group that I was in. They were 4-5 years older than me, and they treated me as a little brother, and helped to guide me through some difficult times in my life. As I was writing this mentor character, I really wanted her to be a reflection of those girls.
glutton
Inkling
On that note, in one of my older works the male MC's love interest, despite being younger than him, serves in somewhat of a mentor-like role helping him become more confident and independent and 'spread his wings', while also training him to be a better fighter. He's 21 and she's 17...
Tom
Istar
Another cliche I don't like is "peasants have no innate worth as themselves; they have to be secretly descended from royalty to count for anything."
I know authors usually don't mean it that way--they just want it to be a surprising revelation for their little peasant hero--but I find it kind of insulting. Sure, I'm a working-class member who happens to have been nobility a few centuries back in the "old country", but that doesn't mean I'm worth anything as a person only because my however-many-greats-granddaddy was prince or baron or baronet of some tiny German state.
A fantasy hero's worth should be measured in his own achievements, not whose DNA he shares.
I know authors usually don't mean it that way--they just want it to be a surprising revelation for their little peasant hero--but I find it kind of insulting. Sure, I'm a working-class member who happens to have been nobility a few centuries back in the "old country", but that doesn't mean I'm worth anything as a person only because my however-many-greats-granddaddy was prince or baron or baronet of some tiny German state.
A fantasy hero's worth should be measured in his own achievements, not whose DNA he shares.
Last edited:
Aww… I hate it when the sidekick gets decapitated.
Actually, I like the sidekicks who are actually more than just useful, but are the reason the hero gets through some challenges. Green Hornet's Kato. Inspector Clouseau's Kato. I'm sure there are sidekicks not named Kato who are great examples of what I'm trying to get at.
The Internet knows everything, so here's a top ten list which includes one Kato and nine non-Katos. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by who made #1.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Thread starter
- #17
i have an old "wisdomatic" in the intro chapter to my story. he isn't to play a huge role, although he may reappear into the story a short while after the initial blurb. he's not even really supposed to be wisdomatic, but may come off that way because one of the MC's (I think that means main characters, you guys use a lot of ackronymns I am unfamiliar with) is young and still awed by simple common sense. the old sage is actually just established insofar as his reality goes, forced back into the mix of things.
You can't avoid the mentor character. Being mentored is a significant part of life. Where that mentorship comes from can vary but it's there even if we're not aware of it. The obvious mentors are paternal figures mom/dad/grand dad/grand mother. But friends mentor, teachers mentor. Even books, tv, and movies can mentor.
Tom
Istar
I'm just sayin', why does the mentor have to be an old white guy?
Mythopoet
Auror
Personally, I would find a young mentor suspicious. Unless there was some REALLY good reason for the young person to be wiser than their years (for instance, if they possessed the memories of all their ancestors, like the Dune twins) then a young mentor just wouldn't be believable to me. It's a simple fact of life that most people accumulate knowledge and wisdom only through time and experience. Thus most young people aren't fit to be mentors. If you wanted to do something different and unexpected with a mentor character, like having them be young, then you'd have to put some work into establishing and developing them as a character but many mentor characters in stories simply aren't important enough or aren't around long enough to make it worthwhile. Thus having an old mentor is an easy way to make it instantly believable.
