Most hated fantasy cliches: What do you think?

[goldhawk]

To me, a cliché is an idea that's been done so often that nobody puts any thought into it any more. They make it very superficial and that makes it boring. For example: Frodo is the Chosen One. But he is full of fear and doubt. That makes him interest to read about.

 

[Mindfire]

To me, a cliché is an idea that's been done so often that nobody puts any thought into it any more. They make it very superficial and that makes it boring. For example: Frodo is the Chosen One. But he is full of fear and doubt. That makes him interest to read about.

Except that Frodo isn't the Chosen One. There was no Great Prophecy. His triumph is portrayed as unlikely rather than inevitable, and he almost fails. He wasn't "chosen" to bear the ring at all, but the opposite. He volunteered to take it. He wasn't secretly anyone special. He was an ordinary person made special by of his choices and moral conviction. Now whether the Illuvatar or the Valar willed the ring to come to Frodo because they foresaw the choices he would make- as implied by Gandalf's remark that Frodo may have been "meant" to have it- is another matter. But regardless, Frodo is remarkable because of his choices, not because he was chosen.

 

[Jabrosky]

To me, a cliché is an idea that's been done so often that nobody puts any thought into it any more. They make it very superficial and that makes it boring. For example: Frodo is the Chosen One. But he is full of fear and doubt. That makes him interest to read about.

Good way of looking at it. Cliches are much easier to accept if there's thought behind them.

 

[Maximillian_dErembourg]

I thought this list might revive the original theme of this thread. I recently submitted a story to Clarkseworld sci-fi magazine. This was a list of things they DID NOT want, c/p from their Submission Guidelines.
I think this is more than just another list of someone's opinions about what they do and do not like as individuals...because this is an established magazine. SO, they see it all, they KNOW what is an overused trope, and tell submitting writers what to avoid.

stories in which a milquetoast civilian government is depicted as the sole obstacle to either catching some depraved criminal or to an uncomplicated military victory
stories in which the words "thou" or "thine" appear
talking cats
talking swords
stories where the climax is dependent on the spilling of intestines
stories where FTL travel is as easy as is it on television shows or movies
time travel too
stories that depend on some vestigial belief in Judeo-Christian mythology in order to be frightening (i.e., Cain and Abel are vampires, the End Times are a' comin', Communion wine turns to Christ's literal blood and it's HIV positive, Satan's gonna getcha, etc.)
stories about rapist-murderer-cannibals
stories about young kids playing in some field and discovering ANYTHING. (a body, an alien craft, Excalibur, ANYTHING).
stories about the stuff we all read in Scientific American three months ago
stories where the Republicans, or Democrats, or Libertarians, or the Spartacist League, etc. take over the world and either save or ruin it
your AD&D game
"funny" stories that depend on, or even include, puns
sexy vampires, wanton werewolves, or lusty pirates
zombies or zombie-wannabes
stories originally intended for someone's upcoming theme anthology or issue
stories where the protagonist is either widely despised or widely admired simply because he or she is just so smart and/or strange
stories that take place within an artsy-fartsy bohemia as written by an author who has clearly never experienced one
your trunk stories

 

[Guy]

I think this is more than just another list of someone's opinions about what they do and do not like as individuals...because this is an established magazine. SO, they see it all, they KNOW what is an overused trope, and tell submitting writers what to avoid.

The fact that it's an established magazine isn't nearly as important as you might think it is. All they can say is what they don't like as individuals, not what is or is not a good story.

 

[Svrtnsse]

SO, they see it all, they KNOW what is an overused trope, and tell submitting writers what to avoid.

I'm getting the impression this list isn't intended to warn of overused tropes, but to weed out enthusiastic amateurs with little to no writing experience.
If someone wrote an astoundingly brilliant story involving one or more of the items on the list, I think there's a fair chance it would be published.

This has probably been mentioned earlier in the thread, but even so: the execution of the idea is more important than the idea itself. It's really hard to come up with completely new and innovative ideas. Pretty much everything has been done before, in one way or another. So, it's not so much about coming up with new ideas and avoiding old tropes as it is about putting an interesting twist on those ideas and tropes.

 

[acapes]

stories in which a milquetoast civilian government is depicted as the sole obstacle to either catching some depraved criminal or to an uncomplicated military victory
stories in which the words "thou" or "thine" appear
talking cats
talking swords
stories where the climax is dependent on the spilling of intestines
stories where FTL travel is as easy as is it on television shows or movies
time travel too
stories that depend on some vestigial belief in Judeo-Christian mythology in order to be frightening (i.e., Cain and Abel are vampires, the End Times are a' comin', Communion wine turns to Christ's literal blood and it's HIV positive, Satan's gonna getcha, etc.)
stories about rapist-murderer-cannibals
stories about young kids playing in some field and discovering ANYTHING. (a body, an alien craft, Excalibur, ANYTHING).
stories about the stuff we all read in Scientific American three months ago
stories where the Republicans, or Democrats, or Libertarians, or the Spartacist League, etc. take over the world and either save or ruin it
your AD&D game
"funny" stories that depend on, or even include, puns
sexy vampires, wanton werewolves, or lusty pirates
zombies or zombie-wannabes
stories originally intended for someone's upcoming theme anthology or issue
stories where the protagonist is either widely despised or widely admired simply because he or she is just so smart and/or strange
stories that take place within an artsy-fartsy bohemia as written by an author who has clearly never experienced one
your trunk stories

My next project must now include any or all of these

 

[spectre]

I don't hate either cliché, they are always enriching I do wonder about other readers' points of view on the matter though and I'm glad you posted this! One thing I will say though is that I read Terry Brooks' first book like two years ago, I forget the title, that is how under developed he laid out his story, with commonly used clichés and I think that that is the cliché pitfall: lay them out and knock them down like dominoes, but don't make any nice fall patterns.

 

[Antaus]

I honestly don't know if this qualifies as a cliche but there is something that annoys me to no end. The hero and villain are having the big climactic battle that's been coming for the past thirty chapters. They're fighting it out on he edge of a cliff, in the rain, swords swinging, spells slinging. The villain gets the upper hand, stabs the hero in the stomach who then falls off the cliff into the darkness below and the chapters ends. The next chapter then begins with Martha Stewart baking cookies in her kitchen. WTF?! I don't care about cookies, what happened to the hero damn it?!

 

[Miles Lacey]

Virtually all genres of fiction have their cliches. Indeed, these cliches largely define particular genres. Take away some of the cliches listed in various lists of fantasy cliches and the genre simply would not exist. The cliches listed also come and go based on whatever is popular at the time.

Yet, what I find most amusing about these cliche lists is that, while people may moan about them, they will happily spend their money on the most cliche-riddled fantasy books, films and games.

The Harry Potter series and The Elder Scroll games are both riddled with fantasy and other cliches but both have done phenomenally well financially. I have enjoyed both franchises immensely but it doesn't mean I don't notice the cliches, especially now that I have read quite a few fantasy novels and played a few other fantasy games (such as Dragon Age: Origins).

 

[pmmg]

Did this one come back to life? I try not to focus on the stuff people hate, and this original article (if its still relevant) would seem to come from a cynical and jaded source. I found myself asking, if you hate all that so much, why pay attention to it? But...all of those things are good in their own way, and bad in others. Fantasy may have a lot of chosen ones and dark lords, but it also gets to explore the big themes that go along with chosen ones and dark lords, and present them in way that can ask big questions. I suppose, this list is something to file away, but hate on, I don't think so.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

I honestly don't know if this qualifies as a cliche but there is something that annoys me to no end. The hero and villain are having the big climactic battle that's been coming for the past thirty chapters. They're fighting it out on he edge of a cliff, in the rain, swords swinging, spells slinging. The villain gets the upper hand, stabs the hero in the stomach who then falls off the cliff into the darkness below and the chapters ends. The next chapter then begins with Martha Stewart baking cookies in her kitchen. WTF?! I don't care about cookies, what happened to the hero damn it?!

it would be hilarious if this literally happened tho. Martha Stewart and all ya kno

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

I thought this list might revive the original theme of this thread. I recently submitted a story to Clarkseworld sci-fi magazine. This was a list of things they DID NOT want, c/p from their Submission Guidelines.
I think this is more than just another list of someone's opinions about what they do and do not like as individuals...because this is an established magazine. SO, they see it all, they KNOW what is an overused trope, and tell submitting writers what to avoid.

stories in which a milquetoast civilian government is depicted as the sole obstacle to either catching some depraved criminal or to an uncomplicated military victory
stories in which the words "thou" or "thine" appear
talking cats
talking swords
stories where the climax is dependent on the spilling of intestines
stories where FTL travel is as easy as is it on television shows or movies
time travel too
stories that depend on some vestigial belief in Judeo-Christian mythology in order to be frightening (i.e., Cain and Abel are vampires, the End Times are a' comin', Communion wine turns to Christ's literal blood and it's HIV positive, Satan's gonna getcha, etc.)
stories about rapist-murderer-cannibals
stories about young kids playing in some field and discovering ANYTHING. (a body, an alien craft, Excalibur, ANYTHING).
stories about the stuff we all read in Scientific American three months ago
stories where the Republicans, or Democrats, or Libertarians, or the Spartacist League, etc. take over the world and either save or ruin it
your AD&D game
"funny" stories that depend on, or even include, puns
sexy vampires, wanton werewolves, or lusty pirates
zombies or zombie-wannabes
stories originally intended for someone's upcoming theme anthology or issue
stories where the protagonist is either widely despised or widely admired simply because he or she is just so smart and/or strange
stories that take place within an artsy-fartsy bohemia as written by an author who has clearly never experienced one
your trunk stories

I will die clutching my talking cats.

Actually I'm not currently writing or planning anything that includes them. But I love the trope to death.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Going back to the original article (although this is an old thread) it seems like there are two types of list items:

There's things that can be seen as inherently problematic. Horses used like cars without any magical explanation, etc. These are the thing that come from poor research, lack of research, bad storytelling, or icky ideas (ex: using the rape of a female character as a plot device to motivate a male character). I don't think an inaccurate perception of the middle ages is a cliche, it's just a problem of not being informed. (Of course you don't have to copy Earth completely, you can have extra-hardy horses if you want, but it has to be on purpose and not just because you're ignorant about horses. Same with cultures and governments and stuff.)

Then there are the things that these people just find annoying or overused. Dragons, glowing swords, prophecies, et cetera...as much as they are overused there's nothing inherently bad about them other than they annoy a lot of people. These are the "cliches."

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

I will die clutching my talking cats.

Actually I'm not currently writing or planning anything that includes them. But I love the trope to death.

Me, too.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Me, too.

have you read the Books of Elsewhere? They're middle grade, but I often like those.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

I haven't. I'll make sure to check them out. Have you ever read the Enchanted Forest Chronicles?

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

I haven't. I'll make sure to check them out. Have you ever read the Enchanted Forest Chronicles?

Tried. Couldn't get into them :/

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

I like them a lot. Ah, well.

To go back on topic, one cliche that I'm sick of is damsels in distress.

 

[ImaginationGoneWild]

The only thing I don't like is the 'Falling in love at first sight'. I get that you can find someone very attractive to the point where the knight might want to pursue the princess to find out more. But for the love of good don't make it seem like they're ready to die for one another without saying more then a few sentences.

I mean who knows, your princess might look this pretty because she made a pact with the devil? Or your knight could turn out to be a fraud. x-x
Get to know each other first before you start to jump on each other.

And another thing, love scenes that are just bad timing. Like, I'm not going to be in the mood after being chased by evil overlords through half the freaking forest; exhausted, sore, hungry, scared, my clothes are torn and wet... But wait, my handsome knight is by my side and the fire is crackling romantically with rat meat roasting over it...

Yes...let's bone.

I mean, I'll cuddle if I'm scared but seriously, realism!