It's alive!

[Montinger]

So I hit 28K! Yay!

But I've never really experienced this before. My characters have their own will?! They just... Decide things slightly different from what I had planned for them, go ahead and have chemistry with people I did not think of and things like that. Is this normal? I thought I was the mastermind of this thing. Apparently not. Can't wait to see what they come up with next...

 

[Rexenm]

I’ve made it that far before. Myself, I just watch TV, but books used to occupy me. Do you see yourself with this much success in the future? I have to battle on, word for word. There is no other option!

 

[Prince of Spires]

Congrats on the progress

It's reasonably common for writers to experience their characters developing a personality. A bit more so for pantsers than for plotters I would say.

One thing I always notice when writing is the butterfly effect. I plot my novels. However, while writing the characters turn out to be ever so slightly different from when I plotted. In the beginning it's only minor differences, but those differences built on each other, making the deviation from the outline bigger and bigger. Usually I need to revise the plotted ending a bit to fit this new reality. How much depends on how hard the butterflies flapped their wings before I got there...

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Yes this is absolutely normal. It's why pantsters, especially pure pantsters like me can't plot. I mean I can plot. I've tried, and in one case where I went all out to plot a novel in advance I created an entire plot. Ten pages of precise perfect story (to me anyway!) Regardless I was very impressed with what I'd done. Then I started writing the book, and by the second page I'd already wandered away from the plot. So much so I had to complete a whole new plot. Then I wrote another page of the book, and was again completely off the plot within by the end. So I guess the actual problem for me is that I can't write to a plot!

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Montinger]

Thank you! I hope I can keep it up, this has been produced over approximately 4 weeks. I have some extra time at the moment but I start a new full time job soon so we will see about that.

Oooh! Does not look good for my overall arch I see I thought I was a plotter. I wrote a rough plot. So far it is going somewhat according to plan. But I am starting to re-identify as a pantster as I speak after your inputs. Part pantster at least. It is strange because I am a bit of a planning freak in everyday life.

 

[The Dark One]

Congrats on the progress

It's reasonably common for writers to experience their characters developing a personality. A bit more so for pantsers than for plotters I would say.

One thing I always notice when writing is the butterfly effect. I plot my novels. However, while writing the characters turn out to be ever so slightly different from when I plotted. In the beginning it's only minor differences, but those differences built on each other, making the deviation from the outline bigger and bigger. Usually I need to revise the plotted ending a bit to fit this new reality. How much depends on how hard the butterflies flapped their wings before I got there...

Absolutely not.

I am the most consummate plotter but this happens to me every time - I'd be disappointed if it didn't.

In fact not only do the characters wrench the story out of my control, the ending I'm usually working towards always changes when I get there.

Always.

 

[Mad Swede]

Absolutely not.

I am the most consummate plotter but this happens to me every time - I'd be disappointed if it didn't.

In fact not only do the characters wrench the story out of my control, the ending I'm usually working towards always changes when I get there.

Always.

I'll second that.

Being dyslexic I do all my ploting in my head before reaching for the keyboard. You might think that this would mean that my characters don't rush off and do their own thing, but you'd be wrong.

And I too would be disappointed if this didn't happen, because for me having this happen to my stories is a sign that I have created believable characters who act in a way which fits with their (fictional) lives, motives and personalities in the setting I have created for them.

 

[The Dark One]

How can you ever truly know another person? They will always surprise you.

And if your fictional character is real, they will surprise you also.

 

[Ned Marcus]

I'm usually more of a plotter, and this happens to me quite often. If there's a battle of plots vs characters, the characters win. The plot doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Rexenm]

With my plot, I just do a bit of corrigible, and everything’s alright.

 

[Montinger]

It really makes writing more interesting!

 

[skip.knox]

I've stopped categorizing myself, except to say I'm a writer. Gardens, pants, architecture and plots, I've shucked them all onto a pile. Maybe they'll compost and finally serve a useful purpose. It's been a relief, really.

I resist saying characters do anything on their own. I try to take responsibility for every word, but I recognize we're all speaking in metaphors so it's all good. What I do notice is how I build a character out by bits and pieces. It's like sketching, with some quick lines here and there, but also with some deliberation in other areas.

As an example, I have a character who is an ogre. That was the first line drawn. Because I'd had ogres in other works, I already had certain attributes and characteristics to hand, but this fellow plays a major role, so I had to go beyond that. Where did he come from? I placed him first in France, later in Italy. Then I made him an orphan, raised by dwarves. I can't for the life of me remember why I chose that, but I liked it right away, so it stuck. It certainly is not the case that the character himself did this; it was all me.

Much of the rest has come from having the character in the story, interacting with other characters. That has let me sketch more back story, more aspects of his personality. I don't see any way I could invent all that up front; it comes organically as I work the character. Maybe that's what others mean when they say the character surprises them in one way or another. I definitely have surprised myself from time to time. I've seen it happen even within a sentence, most often with some emotional nuance I had not been expecting.

I sometimes wonder if a painter or sculptor experiences this sort of thing. I think musicians do--in the composition I mean, which is different from the performance.

 

[The Dark One]

I sometimes wonder if a painter or sculptor experiences this sort of thing. I think musicians do--in the composition I mean, which is different from the performance.

Interesting analogy - at least as far as music is concerned (as I also write music). One thing I've noticed is that composition never stays the same once other players are involved. A recording is only a snapshot, after all. Songs always continue to evolve.

But Skip, you seemed to be talking about the evolution of a character as opposed to characters seeming to want things themselves and driving the story off in directions the author didn't originally intend. I think that's what most of us were talking about, and it happens every time in my experience.

 

[skip.knox]

I am talking about that mainly because not only have I never had a character drive the story, in any direction at all, I cannot envision how that even happens. It's just me, sitting at a computer or else with pen and paper. That's it. Nothing happens until it's my hand that moves, and automatic writing has never done anything for me either.

I recognize that for others this is a real deal. For some, it's exactly as described: somehow, these invented characters take on some sort of independent agency and cause the author to write things other than intended. For others, it's more metaphorical: the "other direction" might be subconsciously imagined, or might be embedded but only now discernible, and talking about characters taking the story here or there is simply the easiest way to talk about it. It might even be an aid to their imagination.

I don't disparage any of that. It's just nothing I've ever experienced and I can't find any way to think about it. Indeed, for me, the notion is more than alien. What I write is what I have written. I've worked hard on it. It feels wrong and downright nonsensical to say that some parts of the completed work is due to the independent agency of characters within it, as if they had written part of it. I can't picture Tolkien (to grab a quick example) being surprised that Frodo stepped forward at the Council; I can't picture him saying oh! I meant for Boromir to carry the ring; what a surprise!

It would be interested to know if character agency (if I can invent a phrase for this) happens during revisions. Probably never during a proofread. I'm guessing it would be mostly during first draft.

I have also wondered if the creative process is essentially the same for all, and it's just us humans grasping at vocabulary that makes it look different.

 

[The Dark One]

I'm sure there's a lot of truth in your last sentence.

Of course we are speaking metaphorically (ish) with concepts such as character agency (good term) but it certainly happens.

Maybe an easy way of understanding it is that character growth/evolution suddenly dictates a different conclusion from what the author was working towards.

 

[Ned Marcus]

I have also wondered if the creative process is essentially the same for all, and it's just us humans grasping at vocabulary that makes it look different.

This is an interesting point. I think the creative process is similar for all humans, but with differences too. We look similar, but not the same: we have different body shapes, features, colours etc. In character we're more similar than not, but we have personality differences too. I imagine it's something similar for creativity.

I've also had the opposite experience: when using the same vocabulary can hide differences.

One of the most startling moments in my psychology classes was when I discovered that most people can actually see internal imagery. Even colours. I'd always assumed that when people speak about seeing something in their mind that they were speaking metaphorically, not literally. I'd just discovered I had aphantasia.

I've had characters taking on a life of their own in vivid ways. I'd originally planned to have a character die at the end of a novel, but I liked the character and wanted her to live. As I thought of her, I decided to ask her what she thought. She was an honest character, and answered me immediately. I imagined her talking to me very clearly—though I couldn't see her—she was there. She told me very clearly that she should die.

It's clear that not everyone has this experience, and I'm not sure it really makes any big difference in the end.

I didn't literally think she was there. It was my imagination entering the character and story, and then telling me that in order to be true to the character I'd created (and to the story) I'd have to let her die. Although I couldn't see her, I felt as if the conversation was very real. It's just how I experienced it.

There are probably many aspects of human experience where language either hides or exaggerates minimal differences between us.

 

[skip.knox]

>in order to be true to the character I'd created
Yeah, that feels right. I get that feeling regularly. I sometimes tell people that I feel an obligation to do right by the characters. Sometimes to do right by plot or setting, but most times it's about the characters. I really do feel this at an emotional level, that if I did not do what seemed right, it would be a kind of betrayal.

I don't ever feel like there's a mystery. Most times, I have only a vague notion as to how matters might play out for a character. I actually try *not* to have anything planned except in a general way. For example, in my WIP, the lead character is Valentin. He's the leader of the performing troupe. It was an easy choice to think he's not perfect in that, which in turn means he will learn how to be a better leader. But how, specifically? How will he get there? Is that even the most important thing to know about him?

*shrug*

It'll come to me. I've written enough stories to know that at some point I'll settle on the right approach and the character is locked at that point. I can't think of an instance where there was a significant change after that point. For the character to go in a radically new direction really would mean writing a different story. The crucial point comes when key aspects of this character now fits with both other characters and the story plot. Like gears meshing.

Which is very much being true to the character ... once I have the character figured. It's a good feeling, like settling on a groove, getting the chord structure right. Once that's in place, everything after is filling in the details.

 

[Renè Williams]

So I hit 28K! Yay!

But I've never really experienced this before. My characters have their own will?! They just... Decide things slightly different from what I had planned for them, go ahead and have chemistry with people I did not think of and things like that. Is this normal? I thought I was the mastermind of this thing. Apparently not. Can't wait to see what they come up with next...

Awesome, congrats! I do think it's pretty normal to feel like your characters have sort of, decided things on their own, and it's a great part of the process, enjoy it but make sure you keep the leash attached even if you give them plenty of slack to run with. I've let my characters work themselves into corners just to have to go far back and do major rewrites to fix it all.

 

[Finchbearer]

I'll second that.

Being dyslexic I do all my ploting in my head before reaching for the keyboard. You might think that this would mean that my characters don't rush off and do their own thing, but you'd be wrong.

And I too would be disappointed if this didn't happen, because for me having this happen to my stories is a sign that I have created believable characters who act in a way which fits with their (fictional) lives, motives and personalities in the setting I have created for them.

Im super curious to know how your process actually works. You’ve said that you hold everything in your mind and then you translate that into words on a page and your story is done in one pass no editing? How do you have spontaneity in your writing process?

 

[Mad Swede]

Im super curious to know how your process actually works. You’ve said that you hold everything in your mind and then you translate that into words on a page and your story is done in one pass no editing? How do you have spontaneity in your writing process?

Well, I think the story through in my head then start writing. I write the opening scene and the last scene first, then add the major scenes in between. Then I add the rest. I don't do all this in one sitting, it takes several writing sessions - and it is in between these sessions that the characters seem to run off and do their own things. So when I sit down to write I seem to find myself running after the characters to document what they've been up to when I wasn't looking. In that sense a lot of my writing is spontaneous - and the result usually (but not always) stays within my intended story arc.

What goes down on the page when I write is it. I don't do revisions or re-writes or edits, because I'm severely dyslexic. I have to think the story through first.