Main plot headache

[Montinger]

Hello writers!

I am currently working on a new fantasy project - slightly Harry Potter inspired with a magic society living parallell to our own, and kids going to a magic school.

I have done a lot of world building recently for my project, and I feel like I know my main characters well - There are five of them and all of them have their different challenges and story arcs that I feel ready to start actually writing about. I've been thinking about the plot in a sort of character driven way. Since I am a psychologist I just happened to give them each a set of psychological issues to deal with, which is what drives most of the story/stories (?).

I have previously been working with a different fantasy project that was never finished, because I didn't know where to go with the whole thing. I ended up with subplots but no main plot to bind it all together, and gave up. I feel more confident about the new project, but I feel I really have to plot an outline this time, especially the overall plot.

At this point, I feel like I could sum up the plot of each of the 5 characters if I focus on one at the time. And I also know a bit about how their stories intertwine. But I can't sum up the whole, overall story - because somehow there isn't one, and there isn't really a clear protagonist or "conflict" yet. I feel a bit confused about how I ended up here and how to move on. I think I'm being a bit stunted by my unwillingness to "just create a villain to be defeated", like I somehow expect to create a super unique overall plot if I just think about it long enough. I've become disturbingly aware of that most stories are very similar if you just break them down to one or a few sentences, and perhaps I am a bit hung up on that.

Do you have any words of wisdom to share?

 

[Karlin]

I never deliberately world build, or character build for that matter. I have borrowed worlds and characters.

A suggestion: read Of Mice and Men. It's not fantasy, but it is a fantastic piece of writing, and it isn't long. I'm not sure why I came up with this thought, lets say it's hunch that reading it will help.

 

[Finchbearer]

As an avid reader and amateur writer, insofar as I cannot give any great ‘words of wisdom’, I would second the above suggestion and do some reading. I prefer Grapes of Wrath personally…

You must be inspired by Harry Potter in one way or another, so ask yourself why? I can see why you’ve stumped yourself with some interesting characters, but not knowing or wanting your story to feel contrived or unoriginal, but most stories are fairly unoriginal. Okay there are exceptions, some very talented authors out there, but that’s just it, what makes a good story isn’t necessarily a good plot, the skill lies in the storyteller, and the ability to transfer those abstract thoughts into something beautifully written on the page. That’s why I love reading, that’s why I tell myself stories I want to create and that’s why I write. It’s a madness really.

You’re a psychologist right? You must be interested in why people act the way they do, and how people interact with each other. You may need to ask yourself how your characters interact with each other, what invested interest do they have in each others lives? What evil will they ultimately be up against? And are there subplots where the characters overcome personal battles? Who is your audience? Young adult or just adult? That’s basically HP in a nutshell, just with some fun magic added extras.

 

[pmmg]

There are many types of conflicts in fiction. You don't need a dark lord, you just need one of them.

Man vs Man
Man vs Nature
Man vs himself
Man vs God
Man vs Society

Maybe even more than one. Since you don't have an antagonist, I would start with the MC, and start asked the questions, What do they want, why do they want it, what is stopping them? And from there, I would look for what is the real conflict of the story.

 

[skip.knox]

You might try this: choose one character. Settle in beside them. Don't worry about the other characters; they're still in town, they're just not here right now.

What does this character want? Doesn't have to be anything huge. Maybe start a list. They want to learn to cook. They want world peace. They want to break up with their SO. They want a dog. They want a better apartment, or to move out of or into the city. Doesn't matter, just have a good conversation that focuses on what they want.

Now, you're the psych, so you should be able to suss out their needs. Maybe you already know this, but if not, you need to. (see, you have needs too!)

OK, now you're the author. What obstacles can you put in this person's way? Some burden from the past that's keeping them from this or that. Something they don't know about that's going to drop on their head tomorrow. The obstacle has to be real and practical, not just something general like "lacks confidence in self". How does this person react to the obstacle(s)? What do they do, in practical terms? Better yet, maybe Reaction A, Reaction B, Reaction C, to give yourself some storytelling choices.

If you do this with your other characters as well, I'm betting you will start to identify big issues and little issues, and shared issues. Maybe your five will become three. Or six. But what I'm also betting is that the stuck-ness comes from not actually knowing your characters as well as you think you do.

I say all this earnestly because I've been there; maybe am still there a bit. I started with a group, though I did far less background work. I knew they were a performing troupe, so there had to be a leader or director of some sort. I knew it was going to be a series, so there would be room for individual arcs. Not much more, I'm afraid. As I wrote, and as I plotted out future novels, I began to get a feel for each of the characters. What was important to each. Choices they've made, where they've been proud, where they've been ashamed. I'm beginning to get a feel for how I will challenge each of them (and maybe some of them will wind up more in the background than I'd originally anticipated). In short, it too me quite a long time to get to know my characters, and that translates directly to taking a long time to be able to tell stories with them in it. Be patient, but be persistent.

 

[JBCrowson]

If I recall the movie Royal Tenenbaums was one where not a lot happened in terms of plot, but had great characters with growth arcs. So it can be done. Not sure if that helps.

 

[ThinkerX]

Hello writers!

I am currently working on a new fantasy project - slightly Harry Potter inspired with a magic society living parallell to our own, and kids going to a magic school.

I have done a lot of world building recently for my project, and I feel like I know my main characters well - There are five of them and all of them have their different challenges and story arcs that I feel ready to start actually writing about. I've been thinking about the plot in a sort of character driven way. Since I am a psychologist I just happened to give them each a set of psychological issues to deal with, which is what drives most of the story/stories (?).

I have previously been working with a different fantasy project that was never finished, because I didn't know where to go with the whole thing. I ended up with subplots but no main plot to bind it all together, and gave up. I feel more confident about the new project, but I feel I really have to plot an outline this time, especially the overall plot.

At this point, I feel like I could sum up the plot of each of the 5 characters if I focus on one at the time. And I also know a bit about how their stories intertwine. But I can't sum up the whole, overall story - because somehow there isn't one, and there isn't really a clear protagonist or "conflict" yet. I feel a bit confused about how I ended up here and how to move on. I think I'm being a bit stunted by my unwillingness to "just create a villain to be defeated", like I somehow expect to create a super unique overall plot if I just think about it long enough. I've become disturbingly aware of that most stories are very similar if you just break them down to one or a few sentences, and perhaps I am a bit hung up on that.

Do you have any words of wisdom to share?

Give one of the characters a goal that resonates with your readers, be it redeeming a 'black sheep' member of the family, paying a medical bill, or finding a lost treasure.

To accomplish that goal, that character needs something held or accessible by at least one of the other characters - who also have goals.

Then, one of the other characters has a goal that is opposed to what the first character is after - he/she *needs* the black sheep to remain a tarnished figure, or he/she absolutely despises the first characters dying relative or whatever.

To all this, you add a time limit - there is a grand ritual the first character *must* learn and cast by a certain date, or the black sheep's trial is set to happen, and to accomplish this timed task, the first character has to interact with one or more of the others - and that assistance won't come cheap.

 

[The Dark One]

Have a demon who is spreading madness in your world. That would help with your various characters and give you some excellent subtext to play with - eg the power of misinformation / AI generated reality etc in our own world.

Don't make your chosen one a Freudian.

 

[Mad Swede]

I've never had this problem. Having thought about it overnight I'd suggest that you plot out five little novellas, one for each character, and see where that takes you. Doing so might give you a hint about some background story arc which ties it all together. Or you might just find that what you have is five novellas which together form a sort of anthology.

 

[Foxkeyes]

Seems like you have great characters and a great world built around them, but you need help developing the story element.

I'd recommend a great book by Robert McKee called Story

It's written for screenwriters, but applies to all forms of storytelling.

It's also a bit long winded at times, but worth the work.

 

[Montinger]

I never deliberately world build, or character build for that matter. I have borrowed worlds and characters.

A suggestion: read Of Mice and Men. It's not fantasy, but it is a fantastic piece of writing, and it isn't long. I'm not sure why I came up with this thought, lets say it's hunch that reading it will help.

Interesting! I bought it on Audible. Will read soon

 

[Montinger]

Seems like you have great characters and a great world built around them, but you need help developing the story element.

I'd recommend a great book by Robert McKee called Story

It's written for screenwriters, but applies to all forms of storytelling.

It's also a bit long winded at times, but worth the work.

I'll look into that!

 

[Montinger]

Thank you all for your input!

After thinking a bit about it, I think I should indeed dive even deeper into each of the main characters, and also the conflicts of the world. I've been stressing a bit about the "overall" thing that I haven't done that in a while. I've just been thinking in circles about what a good plot looks like. But the answers might actually be right there, or the inspiration at least. Digging down instead of trying to just look up? And maybe that will even uncover some antagonist... We will see how it goes!

 

[Montinger]

I've never had this problem. Having thought about it overnight I'd suggest that you plot out five little novellas, one for each character, and see where that takes you. Doing so might give you a hint about some background story arc which ties it all together. Or you might just find that what you have is five novellas which together form a sort of anthology.

That is actually an interesting idea! In this case, I don't think I will end up with novellas (I just never do? I make everything way too complicated XD). The characters are also part of each others stories. But just starting to write about them might not be a bad idea I think I'm a bit afraid to start before I know where I am going since I didn't manage to finish last time.

 

[Montinger]

Have a demon who is spreading madness in your world. That would help with your various characters and give you some excellent subtext to play with - eg the power of misinformation / AI generated reality etc in our own world.

Don't make your chosen one a Freudian.

I'm not sure that I follow you, maybe you could elaborate a bit? Is the demon connected to the AI reality? And what is a Freudian in this context? (I really should know more about Freud but I never took much interest, some references just fly above my head in spite of what I studied )

 

[Penpilot]

Every story character needs something to overcome. Sometimes that's a "villain". Sometimes that something is themselves. A lot of times, it's both. Depending on what type of story it is, one will be focused on more. For most stories, there's an external struggle and an internal struggle. Often overcoming that internal issue is the key to overcoming that external issue. Eg, let go, use the force, and destroy the Deathstar.

Finding a villain is often about understanding where you want your characters to go internally. Your characters start off as A but they will end up as Z, and experiences that transform them from one to the other is the story. This is why there are so many villains that are twisted reflections of the hero. They're like cautionary examples of what the hero can turn into if hey don't learn the right things from their experiences.

With that said, other things that may help you are to do some reading on story structure. Knowing the general shape of how a story looks will help you along.

For me, I use three act structure and seven point plot structure to design my stories. And to toot my own horn a little. Here's an article I wrote many years ago on the two structures. It uses Star Wars as an example. Hopefully it helps.

Big Picture Story Structure – Part 1: Three-Act Structure

An overview of the three-act structure. The first part of a series on story structure for writers.

mythicscribes.com

 

[BJ Swabb]

I don't know your character or your archs but one way you could make things interesting is making one of the characters the so called "villain" one who isn't sure who she/he/it is and is experiencing psycholigical trauma as finding out who they are. And in the end while though the "Villain" doesn't stand out to be a villain really, the "villain" turns into an evil individual who prehaps losses everything. Kind of like a Jekyll and Hyde thing, but with a Harry Potter like background to it. Maybe the "Villain" kills throughout the book series but he doesn't know he is doing it. And it's a mystery to the other characters as well as their lives are also in danger, and prehaps one or more of the other characters are attacked by the Villian (who doesn't look like himself) so that they can't point out that its their friend doing it. I don''t know just throwing things out there.

 

[The Dark One]

I'm not sure that I follow you, maybe you could elaborate a bit? Is the demon connected to the AI reality? And what is a Freudian in this context? (I really should know more about Freud but I never took much interest, some references just fly above my head in spite of what I studied )

A psychologist who doesn't know Freud? Not even just for debunking purposes? I'm shocked... You should read his essay Civilisation and It's Discontents for a potted Freud lesson. He had some crazy stuff but some profoundly interesting ideas also such as his theory of the unconscious and the id/ego/superego. (And I was joking above in my reference to a Freudian.)

No I wasn't connecting the demon to AI reality - I was suggesting that the spread of madness in your world could have a useful subtext (ie a message for our own world) about the dangers of AI reality or misinformation that gets people to believe in stuff that is simply wrong in order to exploit them better.

 

[Montinger]

A psychologist who doesn't know Freud? Not even just for debunking purposes? I'm shocked... You should read his essay Civilisation and It's Discontents for a potted Freud lesson. He had some crazy stuff but some profoundly interesting ideas also such as his theory of the unconscious and the id/ego/superego. (And I was joking above in my reference to a Freudian.)

No I wasn't connecting the demon to AI reality - I was suggesting that the spread of madness in your world could have a useful subtext (ie a message for our own world) about the dangers of AI reality or misinformation that gets people to believe in stuff that is simply wrong in order to exploit them better.

Allright now I am with you!
Of course I know of Freud, not sure what precisely a Freudian is though. I always found him more creepy than fascinating so I guess I’m not one

Thank you!

 

[JBCrowson]

Allright now I am with you!
Of course I know of Freud, not sure what precisely a Freudian is though. I always found him more creepy than fascinating so I guess I’m not one

Thank you!

Or as the post Freudian might put it
Not every phallic shaped object is a metaphor.