Mr. Grumpy Pants Offers Sage Advice

[A. E. Lowan]

I like this guy a whole bunch. He's a bit of a curmudgeon, but so am I and you guys all think I'm awesome, so here we go.

Basic stuff, but there's a whole lot of writers who still need to hear this. Maybe we can help.

 

[pmmg]

I find he has useful things to say, and a good presentation, but I also found him on video telling me he did not wish for me to be in his audience, so...

/nuff of him.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I find he has useful things to say, and a good presentation, but I also found him on video telling me he did not wish for me to be in his audience, so...

/nuff of him.

Okay, I'll bite. Why not? I'll admit, there are readers who I wouldn't want reading our work because they either wouldn't appreciate it or would have strong negative opinions about it. We write Urban Fantasy that's actually urban. In our first in series, Faerie Rising, we managed to go to print without a single straight white male character. Nobody's noticed except for our alpha reader, who is a straight, white male. Whoops.

We had a few low ratings from readers who really shouldn't have picked up the book, no 1's, not yet, a few 4's from readers who didn't actually read fantasy, and a single 2 got in. That kid needed a hug so much.

 

[pmmg]

Well...It would not be surprising that this dude and myself don't share the same values. I can tell that just by looking at him...

You and I don't likely share the same values either. I would not be the target audience for your books, but I do wish you lots of luck with it.

This dude is providing a service, a universal one at that... Here are things to write better. We don't need to share the same values to have things to say that may be of use to each other. The industry is what it is, the craft is what it is, and we are just looking for ways to navigate them.

But...he decided to make a separate video about his politics and decided to tell those watching that if we did not share to get lost.

I'd have to go look again to find it, and I am not interested. He seems successful, so he does not need my luck, but best to him. There are plenty of author tubers who do the same. I can find others.

Truth is, I would love to a respected guru of industry stuff and craft and make videos and such, but really, I need to just work on my book 5. I am not really at this point yet, so...its is of interest, but its not exactly stuff I am going to go apply as yet.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I think that's fair. Everybody's got their something, and I think that's beautiful. Doesn't stop me from having a lot of friends and doesn't stop me from commenting on things and trying to change the world. I would not describe myself as even keel or conflict avoidant, but I'm also never boring. lol

 

[Selempi]

Hi everyone! Let's get to know each other.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Hi everyone! Let's get to know each other.

Which is great. We love to socialize. But this isn't the thread for it. We try to - mostly... kinda... sorta - stay on subject so the threads remain an organized resource later. Chit Chat, down near the bottom of the forum listing is the perfect place to make a thread for getting to know each other.

 

[pmmg]

Yeah, i went looking but i dont recall which it is and he has a lot of them.

He has a lot to say and us author types need people to make these things. I saw another vid where he says he is not a shut up and sing type. Thats fine but politics makes you ugly. In the context id use him for i dont need his.

 

[Mad Swede]

I like this guy a whole bunch. He's a bit of a curmudgeon, but so am I and you guys all think I'm awesome, so here we go.

Basic stuff, but there's a whole lot of writers who still need to hear this. Maybe we can help.

Yes, there's a lot of people who need to hear this. The only thing I would say is that the cost of publishing a book (that is, what it costs the publisher) is mostly driven by the size of any print run. Things like editing, setting, cover design etc don't vary as much.

 

[Prince of Spires]

It's a good reminder, though fairly basic and not very deep. A lot of words to say money always flows to the author. The author never pays the publisher for anything. And there are 2 ways of publishing, trad publishing, where the publisher is someone else, who then pays for everything. And self-publishing, where you are the publisher, and thus paying for everything.

He could've said it in less than the 20 minutes it took him. Though perhaps taking some more time got the point across to people who needed to hear it.

 

[Mad Swede]

It's a good reminder, though fairly basic and not very deep. A lot of words to say money always flows to the author. The author never pays the publisher for anything. And there are 2 ways of publishing, trad publishing, where the publisher is someone else, who then pays for everything. And self-publishing, where you are the publisher, and thus paying for everything.

He could've said it in less than the 20 minutes it took him. Though perhaps taking some more time got the point across to people who needed to hear it.

He said something else too, and that is that the (traditional) publisher must believe they can sell your book otherwise they won't take it on.

That's very important, because there are far too many would-be-published-authors who think that publishers have some sort of pact whereby only certain sorts of books get published. What some people call gatekeeping. And the publishers don't.

As I've written before, publishing is in very many ways a form of venture capitalism. The traditional publishers bet quite a lot of cash that the books they take on will sell enough copies to make a profit or at the very least break even. If nothing else, a major bestseller can generate enough money to let those publishers take on new writers and/or more literary books.

So what we submit needs to have at least some commercial potential, which in reality means that commissioning staff need to believe in us and our writing. That doesn't mean we as authors can't be controversial, but we do need to write well enough to show that potential.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

It's a good reminder, though fairly basic and not very deep. A lot of words to say money always flows to the author. The author never pays the publisher for anything. And there are 2 ways of publishing, trad publishing, where the publisher is someone else, who then pays for everything. And self-publishing, where you are the publisher, and thus paying for everythi

He could've said it in less than the 20 minutes it took him. Though perhaps taking some more time got the point across to people who needed to hear it.

I think the thing is the scammers come for us where we're the weakest: Right in the validation. For those of us who have found our way to writing communities and our tribes, it's easy enough to hear that. We repeat it to each other and we teach it to our neophytes. And even still, the idea that someone professional sees us is terribly tempting.

 

[Mad Swede]

I think the thing is the scammers come for us where we're the weakest: Right in the validation. For those of us who have found our way to writing communities and our tribes, it's easy enough to hear that. We repeat it to each other and we teach it to our neophytes. And even still, the idea that someone professional sees us is terribly tempting.

It is, which sometimes makes it very hard to give newcomers the feedback they need about their writing. I sometimes wonder if the growth in social media has made people more vulnerable to scammers. There are so many "influencers" making claims about how people can be successful that people lose sight of how much effort is needed to produce something worthwhile. Writing is no different to any other field in that sense.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

It is, which sometimes makes it very hard to give newcomers the feedback they need about their writing. I sometimes wonder if the growth in social media has made people more vulnerable to scammers. There are so many "influencers" making claims about how people can be successful that people lose sight of how much effort is needed to produce something worthwhile. Writing is no different to any other field in that sense.

I think that's a pretty accurate assessment. I remember when scammers had to really work to find writers in the wild. All they could really do was put ads in the backs of Writer's Digest, and Writer, and the few other writing magazines were out there, and then wait to see what they caught that month. Vanity press, which was what we called self-publishing then, was deeply looked down on. When we decided to go indie, I got to spend an entire afternoon convincing my mom that this was different. She didn't buy it until she had a proof in hand. lol

 

[pmmg]

All I get is spammers and scammers. So far thats all that signed up on my website.

I sometimes wonder if any of it is real. How much of the internet is just bots, and the internet is in fact the 'dead internet'. And how much bandwidth and productivity is lost due to people who exist to ruin it for everyone? How much bandwidth is spent a day on spam, scams and viruses?

Why not actual appreciation? is that so hard?

 

[A. E. Lowan]

All I get is spammers and scammers. So far thats all that signed up on my website.

I sometimes wonder if any of it is real. How much of the internet is just bots, and the internet is in fact the 'dead internet'. And how much bandwidth and productivity is lost due to people who exist to ruin it for everyone? How much bandwidth is spent a day on spam, scams and viruses?

Why not actual appreciation? is that so hard?

Yeah, it's really that hard. With the advent of social media, it's gotten easier than when I was a kid and being brought up to the business, but then as now word-of-mouth reigned supreme. We don't have anything that could be called an ad budget so most of our exposure has been through participating in groups and taking part in fan conventions. Mostly just our home show, Planet Comicon Kansas City, but we met our first superfan there. Our two others we met in groups. As far as I can tell when I'm watching patterns emerge and develop there are quite a few popular fans who will get to know authors and if they like us and our work, suddenly we're being talked about. Early on it kind of freaked me out, like I don't know these folks, I'm autistic, so I had to do a bit of treading water until I figured out how to respond to the attention.

Thank goodness my dad also raised a world-class bullshit artist.

So, what works for me is to be super nice and helpful, a little razzle dazzle, and heaven help anyone who comes for me and mine - I've got a lot I call mine - because in Lowan's persona I am not shy. So now there are people who know our work and our pets' names, and we have no idea who they are. At least until they come to meet us. That's always squee-worthy.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

And just in time, Mr. Grumpy Pants returns! lol

 

[Prince of Spires]

That's very important, because there are far too many would-be-published-authors who think that publishers have some sort of pact whereby only certain sorts of books get published. What some people call gatekeeping. And the publishers don't.

They can run a business and still gate-keep. I agree that publishers are out there to make money, and publishing is expensive. So they're only going to take on books they love and they think will make them money. And they have a lot to choose from.

However, that doesn't mean they aren't gatekeepers. If you want to traditionally publish, then there is only a handful of people who can make that dream come true. That is the very definition of gatekeeping. And while there is no nefarious pact where the conspire against some authors or people, the fact is that people have certain preferences and we are all ruled by our own (subconcious) biases. Even if you go in with the best intentions, you will like what you like, and overwhelmingly that will be similar to yourself.

That doesn't mean that they conciously discriminate, but it does mean that they tend to gravitate towards the same types of stories, just because that is there preference. That's just human nature at work.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

They can run a business and still gate-keep. I agree that publishers are out there to make money, and publishing is expensive. So they're only going to take on books they love and they think will make them money. And they have a lot to choose from.

However, that doesn't mean they aren't gatekeepers. If you want to traditionally publish, then there is only a handful of people who can make that dream come true. That is the very definition of gatekeeping. And while there is no nefarious pact where the conspire against some authors or people, the fact is that people have certain preferences and we are all ruled by our own (subconcious) biases. Even if you go in with the best intentions, you will like what you like, and overwhelmingly that will be similar to yourself.

That doesn't mean that they conciously discriminate, but it does mean that they tend to gravitate towards the same types of stories, just because that is there preference. That's just human nature at work.

Accurate. But it's also something that most people in the industry know, and it's the reason for sections in the Writer's Market and individual agents and publishers' sites that are tagged Needs or Tips. Also, always always always contact the office of the agent or publisher you want to submit to to verify that you will be sending your submission to the right individual, and that they are still working there. Publishing is a bit incestuous and there can be a real game of Duck Duck Goose with agents and editors bouncing around from house to house.

 

[pmmg]

That's very important, because there are far too many would-be-published-authors who think that publishers have some sort of pact whereby only certain sorts of books get published. What some people call gatekeeping. And the publishers don't.

Um...BS, they do.

Heck, this guy in the video is an example of it.