Problem with editing and first drafts

[Chyntiania]

I don't know if I've posted this thread in the right place, and I guess this problem is very common

I'm currently writing a fantasy story (won't call it a novel yet) and I've written the first four chapters. The problem is that I never go beyond four chapters in my stories because I start going back to the previous chapters to edit what I've already written. I know that it's a first draft, but I just feel that I can't continue my story if the chapters in the beginning aren't as good as they should be.

These first chapters come off as bad to me because I think the plot moves too fast and because I feel that the flow of the story is bad.
I've written the first page at least six times and edited the two first chapters several times, and by doing this I just won't be able to continue writing!

Any tips?

 

[skip.knox]

You *must* finish, especially if this is your first novel. Honestly. Sincerely. Write all the way to the end.

It will not be very good, but here's the thing: no matter how hard you work on it, it still won't be very good. It's your first race. It's your first concert. First performance. It's not going to be very good.

But, in a dozen ways that are different for each writer, getting all the way to done is crucial. You simply will not grow as a writer until you do this. It doesn't even need to be a novel, though it should be more than a short story.

So, do whatever you have to. One trick I've seen used is to email each chapter to a friend, then delete your local copy so you simply *cannot* look at it again. Empty the trash, too. Let your friend collect the chapters until you are all the way to finished. Then have everything returned, take a deep breath, and gaze upon what you have wrought.

One other suggestion: consider keeping a side-journal, some place to record your thoughts on the writing process itself, what you are learning. You may never read this journal, but the simple act of writing (I recommend by hand) will help you internalize those lessons.

 

[Chyntiania]

Thank you for your reply.

As a person with traits of a perfectionist it pains me that the result won't be any good in the end, but I'm aware of this. If it wasn't for my friends and the experience the writing process gives me I would consider it a waste of time.
I have written another fantasy story which ended after the 4th chapter, a few short stories and fanfiction (the worst kind of fiction, I know), but my strength lies in writing articles, essays and especially fiction analysis. Writing fiction is something entirely different and something that I've had to learn on my own.

I guess I'll have to keep writing and learning until I'm 60 to have enough experience to write decent fiction xPP

 

[BWFoster78]

I guess I'll have to keep writing and learning until I'm 60 to have enough experience to write decent fiction xPP

Unless you're already in your fifties, I'm not sure it should take quite that long

What have you done so far to learn how to write?

My suggestions are:

1. Read some books on writing craft to increase your knowledge base.
2. Get feedback on a scene. Find crit partners on sites like this one. Scribophile is a good site. See if any IRL writer's groups meet in your area. Meetup.com is a good source in the US; not sure about Norway.
3. Really consider the advice you're getting from the crits. Incorporate the advice that resonates. Throw out the stuff that doesn't (but keep it in mind for the future).
4. Rewrite.
5. Go back to step 2.

Eventually, your scenes won't be torn up quite so bad. That's kind of where I am now, about four years into the process. As far as how an entire novel turns out, we'll see...

Hope this helps!

Brian

 

[TWErvin2]

It's just going to take self-discipline to move forward, reminding yourself that it is a first draft, and that revision efforts will be more effective if you have an entire novel to consider when that time comes.

Possibly limit yourself in revision as you move forward. Edit/revise the section you completed in your previous writing session and then add new words to the first draft. The next writing session, read and make any edits/revisions to that previously new words, and then add new words. Repeat until finished.

The only other options would appear to be never actually finishing a novel and/or writing short stories instead.

I know it sounds easier said than done, but you just have to sit down and push through, knowing that you can go back and revise and improve later. Getting that first draft finished is a huge step, and you'll recognize and appreciate the accomplishment once you achieve it. It'll offer a motivational boost--or at least it does for many writers.

Good luck as you move forward!

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

As Hemingway said:
The first draft of anything is always shit.

Even though your writing will improve as you practice, you'll probably always feel this way to some extent regarding drafts. Learn to use that as a fuel to keep working rather than a disappointment in your abilities.

I'll echo what Brian said about the process of learning craft too. I can only speak for my experience, even though most writers I know seem to share in a similar one.... You don't really learn how to write until you've given and received a good amount of peer review.

As the author of a piece, you simply can't see some issues like problems with clarity. Your critique partners, however, do not have the benefit of having the vision of your story in their minds. They have only the words on the page.

Once these types of issues come to light (and there are many beyond just clarity of expression) you'll improve a ton, and at a faster rate.

So yes, study techniques & methods of writing. Develop a process that allows you to finish. Grow a thick skin & learn from others reading your work.

In my view, these are essential components to finishing a larger story, especially with a perfectionist outlook like yours (one we share, by the way). Only when you can get your drafting to a point where it feels "good enough" for drafting will you be able to move on to the next chapters.

The standard advice is power through to the end. And, I agree with that in many cases. However, I needed to get my writing up to a certain level before I could employ that advice and type "THE END".

 

[Chyntiania]

Thank you for all your replies

I guess I'll have to get through this somehow and just keep writing.

I want to be able to write (and stop editing). I have most things sorted out since I always start with some kind of idea, build the world and create the key characters before I start writing. I have figured out some of the major plot points which will have to occur later in the story and looking forward to getting to those

 

[Incanus]

It will not be very good, but here's the thing: no matter how hard you work on it, it still won't be very good. It's your first race. It's your first concert. First performance. It's not going to be very good.

I've been wondering about this. Not that I disagree, but does this mean that most debut novels are not actually the author's first work?

 

[Trick]

I've been wondering about this. Not that I disagree, but does this mean that most debut novels are not actually the author's first work?

That does appear to be the case, almost always. For instance, Brandon Sanderson wrote eleven books before he published one.

 

[Penpilot]

I used to do things a lot like you. I would spend six hours crafting a paragraph. I rarely finished anything. Then I realized the practical implications of working this way.

First, you never truly know the story until you get to the end. And until you get to the end, you won't be sure of what changes need to be made. What may seem like a good change early on, may be a terrible one once seen in the context of the story as a whole. So if you spend hours editing early chapters, that may be wasted time if you realize later on that those first chapters need to be removed or completely reworked.

Second, because you spend so much time editing before you finish, it makes it harder to change/edit out things you already have down. You'll have spent so much time on and be so attached to the words, that you'll try to save them to the detriment of the story. In other words you'll refused to kill your darlings.

Editing after you finish makes things simpler because you make changes with a clearer picture of where the story is headed. You can manipulate every word and action to foreshadow later events and to support the story as a whole.

The last book I wrote, some of the chapters had over 30 passes made over them, but that was only after I got to the end. I got to the end and realized the last half didn't work. It didn't fit the story, so I threw it away and wrote one that fit. It was made easier because I didn't waste time tuning the prose to chapters/scenes I wasn't going to keep.

You can look at writing a story as building a house. You have to lay down the foundation first, build the frame, put in the plumbing and electric, etc., before you start putting up the curtains and drag in the new couch. The way you're working is you're picking out the drapes and putting in the carpet before there's even a roof on the place. In fact you don't even know the dimensions of the room.

So yeah, finish. I'd say brush up on story structure to help you plan out your stories. You can't know for sure if plot moves too quick or if it flows right if you don't even know long the story is or where it's going.

Here are some numbers to think about. In a 100 000 word novel, with chapters/scenes averaging between 2000 and 2500 words, you will have 40-50 chapters/scenes in which to tell your story. Following the classic three act structure, that means 10 scenes for Act-1, 20 for act-2, and 10 for act-3.

That can be a lot of scenes to fill out or in some cases very few. But one thing is for sure, if it's always three steps forward and two back, it'll take forever to get to the end the first time. And it'll probably take three times as long to do the second. Because editing most of the time takes longer than writing.

Any way I hope some of this rambling helps.

 

[cupiscent]

This was 100% me. I had a dozen novel ideas with four chapters written and no more because it just wasn't "right" and I couldn't go forward.

The key thing that helped me push forward was having external expectations on production - not quality, just production. I set up friends who would expect a NEW chapter from me at least once every fortnight. I took a writing class that required material for workshopping (non-graded) weekly. But those were just props to help my self-discipline come to the fore. I was the one who decided to stick to those expectations. I was the one who decided I was going to take new material to workshopping, not reworked old material.

No one can decide this is going to happen but you. But you know you best, so figure out how to trick, cajole and bully yourself into doing what you want to get done.

I second the advice that finishing a story is important. Nothing teaches you how a story fits together like having put together a finished one, and seeing all the ways you did it wrong - and can do it better. You might think your first few chapters are too fast or slow, too flowery or too brusque, but until you have the complete story, you won't really know what it should be instead. Besides, polishing the start over and over will only make you good at starts. How are you going to get good at middles and ends if you don't try them?

 

[Chyntiania]

Thanks for all the wonderful answers! I'm sure I could ask you anything about writing and still get good answers

Also, I should mention that I'm more of a discovery writer who SHOULD be an outliner (if that makes sense). If I outline everything in detail the story gets boring for me since I know exactly what's going to happen at all times, and it's just more fun to see everything through the character's eyes, not knowing where the story is headed and really feel the world I've created.

But I should outline. I'm a planner, I simply plan everything, and I should also be doing to for my stories. I have created a weak outline just to put the events in order, but I don't feel that it's doing much for me at the moment.

How can I outline without ruining/making the story boring for myself as a writer?

 

[TWErvin2]

Thanks for all the wonderful answers! I'm sure I could ask you anything about writing and still get good answers

Also, I should mention that I'm more of a discovery writer who SHOULD be an outliner (if that makes sense). If I outline everything in detail the story gets boring for me since I know exactly what's going to happen at all times, and it's just more fun to see everything through the character's eyes, not knowing where the story is headed and really feel the world I've created.

But I should outline. I'm a planner, I simply plan everything, and I should also be doing to for my stories. I have created a weak outline just to put the events in order, but I don't feel that it's doing much for me at the moment.

How can I outline without ruining/making the story boring for myself as a writer?

Maybe it would help if you look ask this: Are you writing the story to entertain yourself or are you writing the story with the intent to entertain others?

If you're doing the latter, then outlining and telling the story, working to improve it and make it the best story you can makes better sense.

Just because you outline doesn't mean that it's written it stone and cannot be changed at all.

Consider it like mapping out a vacation trip. You're starting at home (beginning of the novel) and the places you plan to stop and visit and why (various plot points) and your ultimate destination. But as with most vacations, you see additional sights along the way, find something unexpected at an anticipated stop, and other times bypass where you intended to go or stop, finding interesting detours. The ultimate end of the trip might even change by the time you get there. But, having a plan will help to keep you on course, and press forward--especially if you're a planner as you indicated.

I'll add that if you're worried about getting bored with the story, writing from an outline, what happens when you have to go back and make multiple passes, reading and revising? Chances are you're going to read and re-read the novel a half dozen times, minimum.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

How can I outline without ruining/making the story boring for myself as a writer?

Discovery writing is more fun. However, I've learned the value of outlining.

I outline the basic points. Where a scene begins. Where it needs to end. Then, anything in between that's necessary or is too cool to not happen. How I get from point A to B to C is left up in the air.

Often new twists develop that take the story in a different direction. If that's a good change, it stays. If it isn't, it's cut and I do it again.

Try keeping your outlines vague & dynamic. Allow yourself the fun of discovery while heading in a planned direction. Maybe that'll work for you.

 

[skip.knox]

Also, I should mention that I'm more of a discovery writer who SHOULD be an outliner (if that makes sense).

How can I outline without ruining/making the story boring for myself as a writer?

I have to repeat the advice about finishing. You don't know yet whether you should be an outliner or a discovery writer. Nobody does, until they've written a complete work. In fact, they probably don't know until their third complete work.

Think of it this way: you are discovering what sort of writer you are. So try anything. If it feels wrong, try something else, but not until you have finished using that first method.

Heck, I didn't even know how to do chapters. I didn't know how long a story would be. I *thought* I knew. I had outlines. I had sketches. Like battle plans, they all went out the window once I engaged with the enemy (= blank page). I am starting to know about these things, but only--*only*--because I have written to completion a total of five stories now, with two more at completed first draft stage.

This is hard work. Keep at it!