Question Regarding White Main Character

[evolution_rex]

I've been tossing around some ideas I like, but I've come into a snag and I'm hoping that you guys can tell me if there is an issue with this situation. Nothing is set in stone because, like I said, I've just been tossing some ideas around.

I have a main character who is white and comes from a northern tribal society, and he's been placed in a Desert/Jungle environment where there is a great civilization with predominately black population. He's the central character probably won't work with a 'team' but there will of course be other major characters, all whom will be black except if there are scenes from his part of the world. I have both a main character and a setting that I really like but in order to combine the two I want to avoid certain things like the White Savior narrative (which I'm certain I could avoid as he comes from a less advanced society and none of the plot points I've come up with involve him saving them as a people) but I also am just curious on how people feel about that. Is it okay to have a white character when the story takes place in a part of the world where everyone is black?

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

Is it okay?

Yes.

But, do you want to avoid falling into the typical pattern? If so, and I think you do or you wouldn't have posted this, turn expectations on their heads.

For example:
One of the biggest issues with this story type is the idea of the noble savage. Or, the concept that a less advanced people (usually represented as a people those in Hollywood would consider ethnic) has something primitive, yet profound to teach a white man.

So, do you want to change that expectation? If you do, maybe consider making the civilization your character visits vastly more advanced than the place he calls home.

It's hard to give specifics when we don't know your story, but I hope my example works as a simple illustration. If you open yourself up to reaching beyond the standard (think Dances with Wolves as a standard of the noble savage concept) you can distance yourself from issues of poor representation.

 

[Russ]

There is nothing at all wrong with having a white character make a significant appearance in a predominantly black culture.

Personally I also find nothing wrong with the "noble savage" narrative where a person from culture A really learns something important from culture B. It has been done very well, and continues to be done in what is often called the "Stranger in a strange land" tale.

My favourite stories are were each culture learns something important from the other, and the characters are changed for the better from it. Think "The Mission."

 

[cupiscent]

I would advise thinking long and hard about whether this is something you really want to do, and what steps you can explicitly take to stay as far away from White Saviour territory as possible. My first novel had a white protagonist in a black (but advanced) society that she had been born into - I wanted to explore the issues of identity that second-generation children-of-immigrants face. At least one of my rejections from agents was explicitly because of discomfit with White-Saviour overtones. Which I respect. It's a very problematic trope, plugging as it does into the idea that the "brown masses" or third world need white people to save or elevate them. If I go back to that novel, I'll be reworking to make my protag non-white.

So yes, I advise taking great care when playing in this sort of area, because it does matter. Especially take care that your main character isn't solving problems for the locals, especially since the locals would be much more aware of their own problems, context and solutions. Humility is key, which can be tricky, since it's not commonly an attribute for heroes.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

I've been tossing around some ideas I like, but I've come into a snag and I'm hoping that you guys can tell me if there is an issue with this situation. Nothing is set in stone because, like I said, I've just been tossing some ideas around.

I have a main character who is white and comes from a northern tribal society, and he's been placed in a Desert/Jungle environment where there is a great civilization with predominately black population. He's the central character probably won't work with a 'team' but there will of course be other major characters, all whom will be black except if there are scenes from his part of the world. I have both a main character and a setting that I really like but in order to combine the two I want to avoid certain things like the White Savior narrative (which I'm certain I could avoid as he comes from a less advanced society and none of the plot points I've come up with involve him saving them as a people) but I also am just curious on how people feel about that. Is it okay to have a white character when the story takes place in a part of the world where everyone is black?

I lived in Hong Kong and taught in the New Territories region, meaning that I could go the whole day being the only white guy in sight.

So basically, I'm saying you could take into consideration what it's like to be the only white guy. Some experiences I had:
* people were (pleasantly) surprised I preferred Chinese tea over beer
* a teenage girl asked an older woman to take my order because she was afraid to use English
* my principal wanted parents to see my "handsome face" (or really, that her school had a white guy)
* 我不明白 the Chinese language
* being crowded on a train with five faces pressed against my torso (though as common as that height difference is, my 14-year-old Chinese niece is taller than me—she's 6'1")

Just food for thought when considering things your character may experience. Oh, and in case he falls in love, here's one more:
* people hoped I would have a daughter because half-Chinese/half-Western girls are very beautiful (maybe it's a stereotype, but my daughters really are beautiful… and my cousin's daughter is half-Haitian, and is very cute—and tall and thin)

 

[Trick]

people hoped I would have a daughter because half-Chinese/half-Western girls are very beautiful (maybe it's a stereotype, but my daughters really are beautiful… and my cousin's daughter is half-Haitian, and is very cute—and tall and thin)

Mixed race people are often quite beautiful/handsome. I like to think God does that as a contrast to the ugliness of racism.

As to the OP, I think it can be done and I second TAS's post. Think of ways to turn the problematic tropes on their heads but keep in my mind that you can fall into other tropes pretty easily that way. Then write something and put it up in the showcase.

 

[evolution_rex]

Is it okay?

Yes.

But, do you want to avoid falling into the typical pattern? If so, and I think you do or you wouldn't have posted this, turn expectations on their heads.

For example:
One of the biggest issues with this story type is the idea of the noble savage. Or, the concept that a less advanced people (usually represented as a people those in Hollywood would consider ethnic) has something primitive, yet profound to teach a white man.

So, do you want to change that expectation? If you do, maybe consider making the civilization your character visits vastly more advanced than the place he calls home.

It's hard to give specifics when we don't know your story, but I hope my example works as a simple illustration. If you open yourself up to reaching beyond the standard (think Dances with Wolves as a standard of the noble savage concept) you can distance yourself from issues of poor representation.

This is what I had in mind. The civilization would be like the combination of Egypt, Ancient Rome, Medieval Europe, and with the art styles of Africa. I didn't know there was a word for that trope, but the noble savage describes what I'm doing quite well.

I would advise thinking long and hard about whether this is something you really want to do, and what steps you can explicitly take to stay as far away from White Saviour territory as possible. My first novel had a white protagonist in a black (but advanced) society that she had been born into - I wanted to explore the issues of identity that second-generation children-of-immigrants face. At least one of my rejections from agents was explicitly because of discomfit with White-Saviour overtones. Which I respect. It's a very problematic trope, plugging as it does into the idea that the "brown masses" or third world need white people to save or elevate them. If I go back to that novel, I'll be reworking to make my protag non-white.

So yes, I advise taking great care when playing in this sort of area, because it does matter. Especially take care that your main character isn't solving problems for the locals, especially since the locals would be much more aware of their own problems, context and solutions. Humility is key, which can be tricky, since it's not commonly an attribute for heroes.

I have few parts of the story line developed, but none of the concepts that I've made so far revolve around him coming to town and saving the day. I was very conscious of that when I first came up with the setting and character. The story is more about trying to get home than anything else.

I lived in Hong Kong and taught in the New Territories region, meaning that I could go the whole day being the only white guy in sight.

So basically, I'm saying you could take into consideration what it's like to be the only white guy. Some experiences I had:
* people were (pleasantly) surprised I preferred Chinese tea over beer
* a teenage girl asked an older woman to take my order because she was afraid to use English
* my principal wanted parents to see my "handsome face" (or really, that her school had a white guy)
* 我不明白 the Chinese language
* being crowded on a train with five faces pressed against my torso (though as common as that height difference is, my 14-year-old Chinese niece is taller than me—she's 6'1")

Just food for thought when considering things your character may experience. Oh, and in case he falls in love, here's one more:
* people hoped I would have a daughter because half-Chinese/half-Western girls are very beautiful (maybe it's a stereotype, but my daughters really are beautiful… and my cousin's daughter is half-Haitian, and is very cute—and tall and thin)

This is also something I thought about. Him being the only white guy will definitely come into play. They've certainly seen white people before in the cities because there would be trade and they know of other areas of the world, but he knows nothing outside his small northern island.

I also, before I came up with the setting, wanted the main character to be a scruffy middle aged man with a well worn face and the hands of someone who worked way too hard. So I don't think the 'attractive white male protagonist' thing will come up.

Thanks a lot for the responses!

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

Personally I also find nothing wrong with the "noble savage" narrative where a person from culture A really learns something important from culture B.

It has been done very well, and continues to be done in what is often called the "Stranger in a strange land" tale.

My favourite stories are were each culture learns something important from the other, and the characters are changed for the better from it.

I agree with you, Russ. I think those types of stories can still be done well. I'm not one who strives to avoid tropes, but I do like to think of ways to subvert reader expectations.

I feel it's an important part of planning to consider alternate ways of approaching any story. Changing perspective is one consideration that can make the tale more interesting.

 

[evolution_rex]

I'd like to make a correction to my last post, in which I said I was trying to do the noble savage trope, but I realized I misunderstood what the noble savage trope was and didn't read the post correctly. 'Stranger in a strangle land' is the kind of story I'm attempting to do.

 

[Miskatonic]

You have the white savior on one hand but you also have the "the white man is ignorant and learns the real meaning of life by being educated by the indigenous people" scenario. I find both to be cringe worthy.

The interaction between people from different backgrounds is a chance for both to see different points of view and come to a better understanding of the other, hopefully both taking away something positive from the encounter.

I find stories like these more enjoyable if the life lessons are not overt and just thrown in the readers faces because the author assumes they are too stupid to see them.

 

[evolution_rex]

My goal isn't to make the main character ignorant or some how spiritually closer to nature, but just bewildered. From what I've developed so far, the story has less to two with the fact that he is of a different culture and more to do with him trying get back to his family. The clash of different cultures plays a big part obviously but it's not the main goal of the story.

 

[ChasingSuns]

Another aspect of this is the concept of an ensemble cast. Are there other characters that are significant to the story? Do they do things that help to "save the day" or accomplish whatever goal there is to meet? I think that if there is enough representation of the other characters than this could definitely work. Also, as other people said, even though the noble savage thing works at times, it is something to be super careful with. If you are going for the stranger in a strange land kind of thing, but are avoiding the noble savage thing as far as negative connotations goes, then I see no problem with this at all

 

[evolution_rex]

I haven't gotten that far yet, but there probably will be no sidekicks or group of adventurers, but people who he encounters and helps or hinders his journey, possibly Odyssey style. But again I haven't gotten far.

 

[MineOwnKing]

I watched the story your describing when I was a kid.

Steve Martin starred in The Jerk in 1979.

 

[evolution_rex]

Funny movie but not really comparable.

 

[WooHooMan]

I have a related question: how would the noble savage archetype work in reverse? The primitive but profound "native" being placed in a more recognizable, modern civilization?

I'm doing something almost like that but I can't seem to think of too many examples. I do, however, feel like people tend to be more okay with this reversal that the straight trope.

 

[Russ]

I have a related question: how would the noble savage archetype work in reverse? The primitive but profound "native" being placed in a more recognizable, modern civilization?

I'm doing something almost like that but I can't seem to think of too many examples. I do, however, feel like people tend to be more okay with this reversal that the straight trope.

This used to be done in a lot of SF time travel work, with people from the past exploring the future. It is just a variant on the "Stranger in a strange land" theme. It can certainly be done very well. It may not be common in fantasy but has a long tradition in SF.

 

[WooHooMan]

This used to be done in a lot of SF time travel work, with people from the past exploring the future. It is just a variant on the "Stranger in a strange land" theme. It can certainly be done very well. It may not be common in fantasy but has a long tradition in SF.

Oh yeah, I didn't even think about that angle. I just have to google "stranger in a strange land" and I'd find all kinds of examples and analyses.
Thanks.

 

[FifthView]

I'm kind of reminded of the movie Enemy Mine. It doesn't have a great Rotten Tomatoes rating, and you can easily see how, both, the Noble Savage trope and the "each learns from each to love The Other" cliché shaped the movie; but I've always loved the movie. Maybe in part, the fact that I saw it when I was young (and more susceptible to enjoying cliché) explains my like of the movie.

But what I particularly liked about it (I can now say in hindsight), is the fact that it showed the human changing so that he himself no longer fits in his previous social, cultural milieu. You can see the same sort of thing in the more recent Avatar movie; but also, at the end of Blade Runner (even if, in the case of Blade Runner, there's no great effort to show Deckard becoming "alien" to his former society after the events in the movie.)

It strikes me that you may be able to avoid certain tropes while still incorporating the fact that people who are forced, through being "trapped" in a context, to change. Change happens naturally when people are exposed for long periods to a "strange new world." I don't know how your two cultures clash, i.e. have hostilities, or if they do. But it might be interesting to show how your MC successfully returns home and finds out it's no longer quite "home." (Again, a similar thing: The scene in LOTR where Frodo and friends return to their home and are sitting having drinks, and they are shown feeling somewhat out-of-place because of how they've each changed.)

 

[Feo Takahari]

Slightly OT, but I feel like this gives a good perspective on why people complain about white main characters and minority extras: 6 Reasons There's No Escape From Hollywood Racism | Cracked.com If you can avoid the sorts of pitfalls there, I think you're already on the right track.

(If you value your blood pressure, stay out of the comments section.)