Roman or Greek Demographics?

[CupofJoe]

We have probably seen this:

https://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/demographics/medieval-demographics-made-easy.pdf

And the demographics of Paris [or similar] it is very helpful.
I was just wondering if anyone has found a similar breakdown of earlier times?
Ideally I would like late Greek or early Roman settlements.
I have looked on-line but my web-fu seems to be missing and I'm having a hard time working the right prompt for Chat GPT or Bard.
I'm trying to get the feel of what a late Greek small city would have as businesses and occupations.

 

[pmmg]

I dont know of such a resource, but would you be able to draw some of that just from this example?

Many of the same needs would appear in both cultures.

 

[Aldarion]

We have probably seen this:

https://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/demographics/medieval-demographics-made-easy.pdf

And the demographics of Paris [or similar] it is very helpful.
I was just wondering if anyone has found a similar breakdown of earlier times?
Ideally I would like late Greek or early Roman settlements.
I have looked on-line but my web-fu seems to be missing and I'm having a hard time working the right prompt for Chat GPT or Bard.
I'm trying to get the feel of what a late Greek small city would have as businesses and occupations.

Not as such, but these may be interesting:

DEMOGRAPHY OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE: 419. The demography of the first Mediterranean global network: The Roman Empire, Contributions to Science,11,2015, pp. 49-58.

The study of the demographic characteristics of the first Mediterranean global network, the Roman Empire, is not an easy task. There are a lot of aspects to consider and an almost equal number of factors affecting them. In addition, the possible

www.academia.edu

The Demography of the Early Roman Empire

The underlying demographic structure of the early Roman empire is only dimly perceptible. By and large we lack not only reliable statistical evidence for general demographic functions, but also the detailed local records that prove invaluable for

www.academia.edu

 

[pmmg]

I found this, maybe it will be useful.


Greek Occupations

 

[ThinkerX]

apparently, life expectancy was short in Roman times, owing to a high infant mortality rate.

Demography of the Roman Empire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I modeled the Solarian Empire in my books after the late Roman era. I assumed a population of 35-45 million and a life expectancy of 45-55 years, owing mostly to good hygiene. I also figured something like half a dozen cities with populations of around a million, give or take a hundred thousand.

This one is much more readable - and fairly close to the estimates I used...

Roman Empire Population | UNRV Roman History

www.unrv.com

 

[skip.knox]

>life expectancy was short in Roman times, owing to a high infant mortality rate.

Just a quick correction, more statistical than historical. Life expectancy was always around the same, about 70 years. High infant mortality rates affect the mean age at death, which is rather a different sort of stat. The minimum age for a Roman consul was 43 (lower during the Empire). Going back further, in Psalms it says the years of man are three score and ten.

As for that D&D guide, it's fine. Look particularly at the high numbers and low numbers and use those as parameters. Stay inside them and you'll be in the realm of reasonable. The sources he cites are all reliable, though much outdated. I was reading those as an undergrad!

 

[ThinkerX]

>life expectancy was short in Roman times, owing to a high infant mortality rate.

Just a quick correction, more statistical than historical. Life expectancy was always around the same, about 70 years. High infant mortality rates affect the mean age at death, which is rather a different sort of stat. The minimum age for a Roman consul was 43 (lower during the Empire). Going back further, in Psalms it says the years of man are three score and ten.

As for that D&D guide, it's fine. Look particularly at the high numbers and low numbers and use those as parameters. Stay inside them and you'll be in the realm of reasonable. The sources he cites are all reliable, though much outdated. I was reading those as an undergrad!

A great deal of work went into those AD&D handbooks. Probably way past time for updated versions, though today's gamer crowd might wince at the rather severe restrictions on magic and the harshness of the social system.

 

[Gurkhal]

We have probably seen this:

https://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/demographics/medieval-demographics-made-easy.pdf

And the demographics of Paris [or similar] it is very helpful.
I was just wondering if anyone has found a similar breakdown of earlier times?
Ideally I would like late Greek or early Roman settlements.
I have looked on-line but my web-fu seems to be missing and I'm having a hard time working the right prompt for Chat GPT or Bard.
I'm trying to get the feel of what a late Greek small city would have as businesses and occupations.

Before I toss something into the thread I'll have to ask what you define as "late Greek"? Is is Hellenistic, post-Roman conquest or what are we talking about here?

 

[CupofJoe]

Before I toss something into the thread I'll have to ask what you define as "late Greek"? Is is Hellenistic, post-Roman conquest or what are we talking about here?

Its a wide date range [but I am still at the "maybe" planning stage] so any information from 100-200 BCE to 100 CE would be helpful.
What would a small city at that time look like if you walked down a street?
It seems that medieval Paris has a surprisingly large number shoemakers but no potters.

 

[Prince of Spires]

This is certainly a nice starting point: Historical urban community sizes - Wikipedia

At least in terms of what sizes you could expect. I think the things like shops can be lifted directly from the D&D guide. Though technologies and interests change of course, and some places have different shops (you wont find an olive oil merchant in northern europe). I think the concept of how many people you need to support a certain type of store doesn't change all that much. After all, there are only so many candles 1 person needs per year.

 

[Finchbearer]

It seems that medieval Paris has a surprisingly large number shoemakers but no potters.

Perhaps that is to do with Paris not sitting on clay soil? There will be distinct areas in France (for example like Stoke in England) where the majority of pottery is made, and probably because of the topography - so maybe that is another line of enquiry? What were the natural resources in that area like?