How much are you willing to forgive to the hero?

[valiant12]

We're purely hypothetical here. But if there was a woman who was about to conceive a demon, and the guy's choices were: Rape her so that his seed is already implanted and the demon can't be conceived, or kill her for the same effect, or let the rampaging demon be conceived and born, would one be better than the other?

I would let the demon be born. Even if that choice result in most destruction and suffering for the woman, i will feel less guilty.

 

[fantastic]

It's not about blame. The villain in this set up the situation, and carried it out. That's two choices they had to make. Two chances to turn back. You have no proof, absolutely none, that they will keep their word. Why compromise yourself in such a way, for an outcome that is unlikely at best, and outright not going to happen at worst?

This is why the one who came up with this example said, let say that you have a guarantee nothing will happen to the woman. The point is not to find some way to evade the choice by using factors not mentioned in hypothetical situation.

 

[Tom]

This is why the one who came up with this example said, let say that you have a guarantee nothing will happen to the woman.

Oh my GOD, do you still not get it?! RAPE IS WRONG, NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES, AND A TRUE HERO WOULD AVOID COMMITTING IT AT ALL COSTS, UP TO AND INCLUDING LETTING HIMSELF BE KILLED INSTEAD.

Sorry to detonate on you, but why in hell can't you get it? Rape can't be morally justified! It just can't! End of story!

 

[Laurence]

Weeelll it can though can't it? It's fantasy. The whole world could explode if the protagonist didn't rape this woman. The details of how this came to be are not important. But I believe the question has been answered, either way. No, you could not relate to a protagonist after he committed rape even if, by some ridiculous circumstance, it was the lesser of two evils.

EDIT: Not to mention, to achieve such circumstances, the story would probably be shit...

 

[X Equestris]

This is why the one who came up with this example said, let say that you have a guarantee nothing will happen to the woman.

There is no guarantee. Even if such a method existed, verifying that it had been carried out would be nigh impossible in this situation, as you are entirely within said villain's power. So from the POV of the character, there is no guarantee.

Also, let me note that this "I did it because someone else told me that something worse would happen if I didn't do it." defense is dangerously close to the "I was just following orders" of the Nuremburg defense. As I said earlier, we are responsible for our own actions. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Penpilot]

Well, if torturing can have a justification, I assume most other things could have some sort of reason. But I wonder, do you need a justification for any of those things? What if these things are not unusual in their world or the hero does it for no special reason?

I don't think there are any actions that are done without reason.

As for characters that people follow that have done despicable things. I haven't read the books, but the character Thomas Covenant raped someone and he spawned 10 books published from 1977 to 2013 spanning a period of 36 years.

To echo a bit of what T.A.S. said, characters don't have to be liked. It's not what your character's do, it's how you write and the skill with which you write them that matters. A perfect hero that does nothing but good can be boring as heck to read about. A character that does despicable things can be interesting to read about. I mean think about all those biographies of serial killers that people read.

IMHO part of the reason people read about such people is to gain understanding about someone and some things that are completely foreign to them. It's like reading about things you've never experienced. Yes, it can be icky and give you the creepy-crawlies, but knowledge and understanding isn't gained by shying away from everything that makes you uncomfortable.

BTW. there's one thing that, to me, is worse that any of those thing mentioned, killing a child. Anything with that in it, would take a Herculean effort to get through.

 

[Reaver]

I'm locking this thread before it gets further out of hand. The subject of rape is too inflammatory and hits too close to home to a lot of people.