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Are orcs over used?

The book series 'Orcs' by Stan Nicholls is a spectacular series of books, which follows an Orc warband named the Wolverines. I definitely felt that Orcs were overused to the point of death, until I read a synopsis of these books. It twists the typical stereotype or Orcs into something gripping and interesting. Yes, they are still vicious, yes they are still brutally efficient killing machines, but the characters are engaging, in-depth and everyone of them has reasons behind why they are the vicious killing machines that they are. Beautifully created, morally grey characters, that's my opinion on what Orcs should be.
 

Sir Kieran

Scribe
I too recommend reading Orcs by Stan Nicholls. In my personal opinion, orcs are overused (although sometimes, authors just rename the orc race, a la the "Urgals" in the Inheritance Cycle). If you did include orcs, I think it would wise to portray them in an intelligent, morally ambiguous light. After a while, the image of a hulking, drooling, bloodthirsty orc gets old. Put a new spin on the race, and the readers will want to read more about them.
 

Jabrosky

Banned
Let me third Nicholls' take on orcs. They're not too different from classic orcs (it's implied early on that they eat human infants, for instance), but they have enough redeeming qualities to distinguish them from the stereotype.
 
Yes.

(Can't say it more simply than that - but then so are elves and a host of other fantasy races).

That's not to say that they shouldn't be used, or that they can't be used well, but yes they are certainly overused.
 

Nagash

Sage
I've been a huge fan of orcs ever since i played Warcraft I, and subsequently every single game of the franchise - Blizzard's version of the green fellas appeared as far more inspiring than Tolkien's (not criticizing here, but bipolar morality in middle-earth really didn't gave any room for sophistication and singularity amongst the orcs) and most of all, fascinating. Blizzard gave the orcs a culture, a social hierarchy, symbols, notorious leaders, legends, myths... Shamanism never felt so appealing.

I couldn't resist introducing orcs in my world; I went as far as possible from Tolkien's archetypal orc, shaping an intelligent race free from moral determinism. It felt like i was severing any possible ties with classical fantasy.
 

Queshire

Auror
I've probably already mentioned this before the thread necromancy, but! One of my favorite things to do is to take a fantasy race such as Orc, isolate the key aspects that make them Orcs and while keeping those true warp and twist the rest into something interesting. That said though, I don't know what to do with Orcs in my latest setting. In it non-human races are referred to as Spirit Folk, alien beings who live on floating islands in the Mists (a sea of clouds that the human cities fly over, essentially their hell) with strange form and even stranger magics. If I included Orcs in there I would have to ramp up their strangeness. Let's see.... I think they'll have been engineered as disposable soldiers by some ancient civilization and now that their masters are gone they keep doing what they've always done; fight. They'd be closer to particularly bloodthirsty gorillas mentally engineered instincts causing them to use military tactics.
 

johnsonjoshuak

Troubadour
I took Orcs, made some of them civilized (building cities, conducting business, etc) but maintained their militant nature through the institution of mercenary legions.
 
No, I like the mindless hordes in something like Warhammer, and I like the intelligent race like Elder Scrolls. My WIP makes them an intelligent race, with a short lifespan that causes them to be more impulsive, and wild than the longer lived races. More Modern Tribals, less mindless horde.
 
Orcs?
I usually don't see them in the fantasy stories I read. Maybe I need to expand my collection of books again. I'll start by looking for this "Orcs" I just heard about.

If there's one thing that I know, it's that people seem to like using elves (I'm guilty!) and dwarves more as the heroes. Orcs rarely ever get to be the heroes. They don't even get much time as minions either, as most heroes can just knock them out and move on.

Maybe I'll consider throwing in some orcs in the story I'm building right now. I'll make the ELVES the evil ones! Haha!
Or maybe I'll just set up a conflict between elves and orcs. The orcs can win for a change, and I've been trying to figure out why the elvish princess' husband was kidnapped anyway....


Yeah, let's just move with the discussion. Nothing to see over here but an inspired writer.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
I use svartalfar as equivalent to orcs in my WIP Tenth Realm, and I think I've done decently in making them stand apart from the Always Chaotic Evil trope. Helps that a few of them are viewpoint characters, so the reader sees their side of things, their desires and fears, etc. Many of them don't want to serve the main villain at all, and simply want to find a place they can live in peace and prosperity, without having to worry about the realm crashing down on them in an earthquake.
 

Scribble

Archmage
The book series 'Orcs' by Stan Nicholls is a spectacular series of books, which follows an Orc warband named the Wolverines. I definitely felt that Orcs were overused to the point of death, until I read a synopsis of these books. It twists the typical stereotype or Orcs into something gripping and interesting. Yes, they are still vicious, yes they are still brutally efficient killing machines, but the characters are engaging, in-depth and everyone of them has reasons behind why they are the vicious killing machines that they are. Beautifully created, morally grey characters, that's my opinion on what Orcs should be.

Thanks for the heads-up on Orcs. I'd like to read it for some inspiration on orc-culture.

I have a story idea I've been toying with, gangs of orcs and other races trying to survive in the Dark City after the fall of the Dark Lord. They go from being the favored race among the non-humans to being hated for being the once-favorites, while having to contend with cruel and well-organized humans. They've become too urbanized to know how to survive in the wild as their ancestors did, so they cling to all they know, the city they were born into. This small band, under the leadership of a she-orc tries to hold on to their lives in this new age, as she tries to establish her identity and reconcile with her ancient tribal spirits.
 
In the idea of Orcs being overused, I'd say that as long as you put a twist on it, rather than using the same-old-same-old, then it should be interesting. Such as in my WIP I have Orcs, who have overthrown the humans, but are based off a mix of Roman and Greek cultures with the way they fight and the way their society is structured. The way I see it, is if your Orcs aren't the drooling, bloodthirsty monsters that Tolkien kinna made famous, then you should get on alright.
 

WooHooMan

Auror
I'm fine with orcs as bloodthirsty monsters. Because they're good at being bloodthirsty monsters.
Things don't need to be original to be good.

However, I also tend to be ok with most original takes on orcs.
I just like orcs, I guess.
 

WilliamD

Acolyte
I would like to see the Orcs as friend and not just foe, I think it would be fairly interesting to see another side of them.
 

acapes

Sage
I'll doubtless be repeating what others have said, but I think Orcs, Elves and Dwarves (and Dragons for that matter) are generally over-used in fantasy.

But I also think that doesn't matter. At all.

So long as you write it well, it'll work just fine, Geldor - I reckon go for it, make them sympathetic or give them more dimension. Make them think they are heroes of their own sagas. Give them a role in the story where the reader isn't sure how much/how truly they will help/hinder your heroes perhaps.
 

D. Gray Warrior

Troubadour
My world has Minotaurs as an alternative to orcs since it is a Greek- like setting. I want them to serve the same purpose as orcs, except they aren't really evil, just another shade of gray. They are a warrior culture, but they are not barbaric, either.
 

Gurkhal

Auror
My world has Minotaurs as an alternative to orcs since it is a Greek- like setting. I want them to serve the same purpose as orcs, except they aren't really evil, just another shade of gray. They are a warrior culture, but they are not barbaric, either.

Wouldn't that essentially make them non-Orcs? I mean, as far as I know the Orcs are pure evil without any redeming qualities at all in Tolkien's works which I take to be the one basis from which all other interpretations should start.

So by making them into grey characters and cultures, you are essentially making them to something which are not Orcs.

EDITED: At least that's what I think.
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
Wouldn't that essentially make them non-Orcs? I mean, as far as I know the Orcs are pure evil without any redeming qualities at all in Tolkien's works which I take to be the one basis from which all other interpretations should start.

That's not accurate. At the very least, orcs as characters are underexplored in Tolkein, and I think that is the reason that they've been used over and over again. Tolkein knew who they were when he wrote about them. They were slave warriors. But to the casual reader, there's an unexplored mystery behind who they are and why they behave the way they do. That mystery is their biggest appeal.
 

WooHooMan

Auror
That mystery is their biggest appeal.

I always thought their appeal was that they were a polar-opposite alternative to the Elves.

Elves are uniformly pretty and kind of prissy. They are favored by God himself (and the writer) and are the oldest and wisest people.
Orcs are kind of diverse in appearance and are totally brutal. If you have the right mindset, that's fun. Every once in a while, people like rooting for the villains. Even when they're not the villains, they have an relatively unconventional look and a barbaric element to them.
 

Mythopoet

Auror
I always thought their appeal was that they were a polar-opposite alternative to the Elves.

Elves are uniformly pretty and kind of prissy. They are favored by God himself (and the writer) and are the oldest and wisest people.
Orcs are kind of diverse in appearance and are totally brutal. If you have the right mindset, that's fun. Every once in a while, people like rooting for the villains. Even when they're not the villains, they have an relatively unconventional look and a barbaric element to them.

I just.... always have to wonder if the Tolkien books I've read are the same as the ones everyone else has. I suppose the problem is that most people who have read LOTR haven't read The Silmarillion. But honestly, "uniformly pretty" and "prissy"? I just don't know where people get that impression from, unless it's the movies. (Curse Peter Jackson!) Elves are not "favored" by God over Men, though probably over Dwarves. Both Elves and Men are the "Children of Illuvatar". They are different, but neither is meant to be "better" than the other. People tend to view the "immortality" of the Elves as making them "better" but that isn't the case. In fact, mortality is called the "Gift of Men". And it was the envy of that immortality among certain Men that led to much death and suffering and the destruction of Numenor.

And orcs are not the "polar opposite" of Elves. They are a corruption of Elves and Men on an essential level. That is part of the terror of Sauron. Those armies of orcs and half-orcs are the future for any people that falls under his dominion.
 
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