Random thoughts

[Ban]

No problem.

I assume you speak Afrikaans then, because you were taught to call Dutch Nederlands. I'm curious to know how much you can understand of Dutch and what sort of impression you get when people speak it.

 

[La Volpe]

I think we'd be able to hold a conversation if we both speak slowly. Afrikaans is mostly based on Dutch (so much that it was called kitchen Dutch by the English in the early days).

Written should be even easier.

So, byvoorbeeld, kan jy enigiets hiervan verstaan?

 

[Ban]

Interesting. I find it personally relatively difficult to understand Afrikaans. I can usually make out around half of the words.


Maar de door jou geschreven zin is goed te begrijpen.

 

[La Volpe]

Hm. That was not as easy as I thought it would be. I got most of the words in that sentence, but the "door" is throwing me, and I only have a wide-angled idea of what you're saying.

Kom ons kyk of dit beter werk as ek 'n langer stuk skryf dat daar bietjie konteks is. As ek moet raai, sê daai sin van jou iets in die lyn van: Maar met jou geskrewe sin kan ek goed begryp. So kon jy hierdie verstaan?

 

[Ban]

This is getting quite a bit more difficult


Voor zover als ik het kan verstaan, klopt jouw vertaling. Daarnaast kan ik het meeste van dit stukje tekst begrijpen, maar ik heb er moeite mee. Je gebruikt andere letters voor bepaalde klanken in jouw taal, wat het moeilijker maakt om alles goed te lezen.

 

[La Volpe]

Interestingly, I find it easier to understand if I read it out loud. As in, Dutch seems to sound more like Afrikaans than it looks like Afrikaans. Though, I've been in contact with at least two Dutch people who spoke Afrikaans to me in an accent, which helps me pronounce Dutch better. So maybe that helps me with understanding the Dutch?

But it would be interesting if you also find it easier if you read it aloud.

(Also, this last paragraph of yours, I understood everything.)

'n Paar goed wat ek sien as primêre verskille: Afrikaans gebruik 'n "s" waar Nederlands 'n "z" gebruik. En Nederlands sit "t"s agter woorde wat ons net uitlos. En al die "j"s los Afrikaans ook meestal uit. En een wat my nogals laat sukkel het was die "het" wat in Afrikaans "have" beteken, maar in Nederlands lyk dit vir my iets soos "it".

 

[Ban]

Ik ben het compleet met je eens dat het makkelijker is om de andere taal te begrijpen als je het voor jezelf uitspreekt. Ik vind het wel interessant dat het voor ons beide makkelijker is om elkaars taal te begrijpen door het uit te spreken. Ik zou verwachten dat het voor mij het makkelijkste zou zijn omdat Afrikaans over het algemeen simpelere spelling- en grammatica- regels lijkt te hebben dan Nederlands.

"Het" is trouwens inderdaad het Nederlandse woord voor "it".


Funny how similar, yet different these languages are. Afrikaans is clearly far more than a dialect of Dutch, but it is still mutually understandable to us... Weird but nice.

 

[Tom]

Meanwhile I speak German as a second language, and I could only just barely understand parts of that exchange...

 

[Ban]

Dutch and German are surprisingly different. Even after living near the border for years I can't understand most of German. I suppose people often think that German and Dutch are largely interchangable, but English is actually closer related to Dutch than German to Dutch.

 

[Tom]

I think a lot of the difference is in grammar/sentence structure. I picked up a ton of cognates--both German and English ones--but I just can't grasp the grammar. I know a few Dutch speakers, and they've all told me that they have a really difficult time understanding German.

 

[Ban]

I agree with your Dutch acquaintances, German grammar is rather difficult for me. But I think the major thing is that almost every word sounds similar enough for me to try and guess the meaning of it, but not similar enough for me to guess correctly.

...Haha, that hopefully makes some sense.

 

[Tom]

Yeah, I have the same problem! I can read (not speak) other Germanic languages, but when I do I'm going "Okay, so that means this...maybe...and this word sounds like that one but might not mean the same thing..." the entire time. It's especially frustrating when you realize that word you thought was a cognate actually has a completely different root, and that sentence you thought you had a handle on suddenly doesn't make any sense.

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

So, I start my career in earnest tomorrow. I'm a full fledged adult now. Terminal degree, career in that field, family. It's strange to be at this point in my life.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Yeah, I have the same problem! I can read (not speak) other Germanic languages, but when I do I'm going "Okay, so that means this...maybe...and this word sounds like that one but might not mean the same thing..." the entire time. It's especially frustrating when you realize that word you thought was a cognate actually has a completely different root, and that sentence you thought you had a handle on suddenly doesn't make any sense.

Y'all are better than me, who understands nothing...

 

[Gribba]

When I am around people speaking Dutch I get confused, as it sounds a little like German and yet like Danish/Norwegian and Icelandic and something I can not put my finger on... So I understand some of it and then get lost...

 

[Gribba]

So, I start my career in earnest tomorrow. I'm a full fledged adult now. Terminal degree, career in that field, family. It's strange to be at this point in my life.

ohh... welcome to the world of adulthood... it is all down hill from that point on... It was a trap and you stept right into it, just like the rest of us...

 

[La Volpe]

Yeah, I have the same problem! I can read (not speak) other Germanic languages, but when I do I'm going "Okay, so that means this...maybe...and this word sounds like that one but might not mean the same thing..." the entire time. It's especially frustrating when you realize that word you thought was a cognate actually has a completely different root, and that sentence you thought you had a handle on suddenly doesn't make any sense.

My family on my mother's side is German, and on my father's side Dutch. So I have a little exposure to both of them. And I was half in the process of learning German, but I got a little sidetracked (though I can probably do a basic conversation in German, as long as the German speaker is extremely patient with me).

Anyway, interestingly, I've found that German grammar is quite similar to Afrikaans grammar, while I have the same issue as you with vocabulary, where words sound the same but mean something completely different. E.g. one that threw me specifically: The German "will" which, as I understand it, means the same as the English "will". But the Afrikaans "wil", which (mostly) shares a pronunciation with the German "will" means the same as the English "want to" or (if I'm right) the German "möchte".

And now I wonder if you, Tom, would also find it easier to understand Dutch and/or Afrikaans if you heard it rather than read it?

 

[Ban]

When I am around people speaking Dutch I get confused, as it sounds a little like German and yet like Danish/Norwegian and Icelandic and something I can not put my finger on... So I understand some of it and then get lost...

Haha I understand. Someone once told me something along the lines of: "Dutch sounds like a Dane pretending to be an Englishman impersonating a German.". I'm sure you can tell me if that's true

I've also found that non-Dutch people get a totally different impression of Dutch depending on the accent it is spoken in. Dutch spoken above the Rhine river is more rough and clear than the softer, mumblier Dutch I and my Belgian brethren speak. If you have the time you could search some videos of a Flemish and a Dutch person speaking. The difference is pretty big despite the only change being the accent.

 

[Ireth]

I'll just leave this here:

Happy Halloween!

 

[Gribba]

Haha I understand. Someone once told me something along the lines of: "Dutch sounds like a Dane pretending to be an Englishman impersonating a German.". I'm sure you can tell me if that's true

HAHAHAHA!!! that is so true... a Dane pretending to be an Englishman impersonating a German and when missing some words, just makes sounds to make it look like a word was being said...

Danish is a soft language and the Icelandic/Norwegian language is harsh, so when I listen to Dutch, I notice the difference.
Few years back I traveled in a car from Denmark to Germany, France, Luxembourg, Belgium (Brussels) to the Netherlands (Rotterdam, Harlem and all the way to Den Helder) and back to Denmark. It was crazy to hear the difference, I felt as the language changed from one town to the other.