The Contribution Standard

[AlexArcter]

Hello! So I'm playing around with a "currency-less" society for my Connexa world. I'm thinking of making it a Technocratic Geniocracy. So the people in power will be in power because they are highly knowledgeable and accomplished in their respective fields. They would only be allowed to make decisions or maybe cast votes about a particular piece of legislation or a course of action if it pertains to their field(s).

Every citizen would have equal access to food, water, housing, and power. All the basics and some "cushy" stuff on top. But then people who have furthered society in some way like by inventing a new technology or application of existing technology or magic systems, or improving existing technology and magic systems would receive some kind of "extra" though I'm not sure what that "extra" would be yet.

There would also have to be some kind of checks/balance systems to make sure people aren't abusing the system and getting overly or lower than deserved benefits for their level of contribution.

When a citizen starts a "business" it would really just mean they are starting a venture because they are driven either by curiosity or the urge to improve their own lives and the lives of the people in the rest of society. Nobody would directly buy or sell "products" to one another, no exchange of labor or currency between the inventor and the end user, all of that stuff would be handled between the government and the inventor.

I'm also playing around with the idea that an inventor's first "payout" for their first innovation would be considerably larger than any subsequent rewards they get for future innovations. The idea being that they get enough resources from the first one to fund their next few studies and maybe enjoy a little more of the "cushy" life as a reward for entering the innovation space, while the subsequent smaller "payouts" could be put towards everyday needs or less lavish extras.

I see this maybe opening up some conflict through people gaming the system or becoming too influential because they've contributed so much so they wield an unusual amount of influence.

This is an early early alpha version idea, but I thought this could help me organize my thoughts a little and thought it would be cool to get some feedback.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Queshire]

Ha! I can just imagine what kind of replies this thread will get.

*ahem*

So since you mentioned magic and tech systems one thing that occurs to me would be to have some sort of AI or powerful spirit be responsible for the distribution of resources, like.... something that would be immune to the risk of political corruption.

 

[AlexArcter]

Ha! I can just imagine what kind of replies this thread will get.

*ahem*

So since you mentioned magic and tech systems one thing that occurs to me would be to have some sort of AI or powerful spirit be responsible for the distribution of resources, like.... something that would be immune to the risk of political corruption.

Hey hey that's not a bad idea! I'm sure I could weave the magic into that process somehow.

 

[pmmg]

I am highly dubious that such a system could ever get off the ground, but anything goes in fiction.

I would point out that currency already is a reward according to contribution system.

Assuming this system was already in place, I would think the 'conflict' would be about that darker side of this system, and some effort to take it down. Perhaps to beat the corrupt AI. Anything so all invasive as a system like this must be in everyone's lives, it ought to be ripe for its imperfections.

 

[Queshire]

Called it

 

[AlexArcter]

I am highly dubious that such a system could ever get off the ground, but anything goes in fiction.

I would point out that currency already is a reward according to contribution system.

Assuming this system was already in place, I would think the 'conflict' would be about that darker side of this system, and some effort to take it down. Perhaps to beat the corrupt AI. Anything so all invasive as a system like this must be in everyone's lives, it ought to be ripe for its imperfections.

I would really like this to be a system that works pretty well overall. I'm definitely open to imperfections for some realism and conflict, but I don't want it to resemble much of the modern governing systems or economies.

And I'm all for characters seeking to take down people abusing their authority but I don't want to build up to another uprising/rebellion story with an evil tyrannical government.

 

[pmmg]

I would really like this to be a system that works pretty well overall. I'm definitely open to imperfections for some realism and conflict, but I don't want it to resemble much of the modern governing systems or economies.

I Initially was going to write, 'What's the question?' Cause I am not sure what you are after. Can I infer from this that you are looking for way this system can actually work?

And I'm all for characters seeking to take down people abusing their authority but I don't want to build up to another uprising/rebellion story with an evil tyrannical government.

I don't think Tyrannical Government is accurate, it would be to bring down a system that seemed good on paper, but is not really in practice. I am not sure what government there actually is. For example, in Logan's Run, the conflict is against a system that in enforcing perfection, is killing people off before they reach old age. The MC comes to see this is unnecessary, and possibly wrong. He forces others to see the truth of this, and consider a different way.

I'd also ask, what is the story, cause conflict = story. So, if we have this Uptonian system as the backdrop, and its not the conflict, what is? What is the purpose of this backdrop to the story?

 

[AlexArcter]

I Initially was going to write, 'What's the question?' Cause I am not sure what you are after. Can I infer from this that you are looking for way this system can actually work?




I don't think Tyrannical Government is accurate, it would be to bring down a system that seemed good on paper, but is not really in practice. I am not sure what government there actually is. For example, in Logan's Run, the conflict is against a system that in enforcing perfection, is killing people off before they reach old age. The MC comes to see this is unnecessary, and possibly wrong. He forces others to see the truth of this, and consider a different way.

I'd also ask, what is the story, cause conflict = story. So, if we have this Uptonian system as the backdrop, and its not the conflict, what is? What is the purpose of this backdrop to the story?

I didn't really have a question per se, I was just looking for people's thoughts and opinions.

So far the story is a character that lives in a city setting is having a hard time finding a school of magic that works for them. They have a friend of the family or an uncle-like character that lives somewhere more nature based and they practice more nature based magics so the main character goes back to this uncle-character's village and begins learning a branch of nature magic.

So I need a decently fleshed out city and a separate nature centric village. These are some general broad stroke things I want to get down before I start writing the story itself. I wanna have a feel for what it's like to live in this city and what it would feel like to suddenly move to a seemingly far less modernized way of life.

 

[pmmg]

Perhaps the conflict would be some power in the city is doing something to wreck the way of life for those in the rural areas... And that it is a nature vs the corrupting force of industrialization type of tale.

 

[Finchbearer]

Hmm are you building what would usually be described as a utopia or *cough* just another communist state…

Obvious flaws aside, what would stop greed from ensuing chaos, as in the real world?

 

[Finchbearer]

I wanna have a feel for what it's like to live in this city and what it would feel like to suddenly move to a seemingly far less modernized way of life.

I feel like this is your conflict. Nature versus technology. I’ve lived in a city and since moved to a semi-rural town. It’s in the very fabric of human DNA to seek out nature. We’ve spent much more time as hunter gatherers than farmers and now industrialised drones, and so it would make a lot of sense for nature to be a powerful opposing ‘force’ within this setup.

I have often thought that ‘forest living’ would actually be my utopian ideal. Everyone lives in self-sustaining off-grid eco houses in a woodland setting. Farming would be agro-forestry. Trees are the answer to everything. BUT, you know, most people want to have a south facing garden devoid of all plants, and like using unsustainable materials such as astroturf and concrete… so, that’s another conflict. Humans.

 

[Prince of Spires]

I feel like the moment you start baking in rewards for doing extra stuff you are basically running a money based economy without the benefit of having actual money. You simply described a Universal Basic Income system.

Not saying it can't work, but I'm doubtful.

I also think the setting becomes more interesting if you drop the reward system and assume everyone does everything for the good of society.

 

[Queshire]

Star Trek is probably your friend here. It's a long enough franchise that they haven't always stuck to the idea that we won't use money in the space future, but it brings up the idea on occasion. In particular, the father of one of the characters from Deep Space Nine runs a restaurant. Now, replicator technology makes it so that no one has to worry about food, but I imagine that there would be an appeal to food that doesn't always taste literally the same every time you order a particular dish along with the general ambiance of a restaurant.

 

[Mad Swede]

The sort of setting you've described has a lot in common with the late Iain M Banks Culture stories. In those books the conflicts arise for reasons which have to do with personal wants and needs rather than physical needs such as food and shelter. That means a much greater focus on characterisation, relationships and motivation. It can work very well.

 

[Jackarandajam]

I don't know If you've read Thomas Mores Utopia or Plato's  Republic, but you may be able to glean some ideas from them.

It would have to be culturally, probably religiously anti-materialistic to come off believably. The reward system would have to be based off of something other than possession or any form of wealth. Accolade, public acknowledgement, a star on the walk of fame... maybe earning your way by merit up a sort of caste system from laborious jobs to more comfortable responsibilities.

Standardize as many things as possible: there aren't expensive things available and the kingdom imports nothing, maybe an island.
There is a low diversity of abundant food sources available.
Technological advancement is task specific and evenly distributed to relevant occupations.
Low diversity/abundant building materials and the architecture is rigourously standardized.
After a painting or sculpture is copied the original is destroyed or put on public display, it's inherant value tallied in some kind of generic collective.

Leaving my personal belief that it would also have to be populated by something other than humans pointedly aside, I think that might get it moving in the right direction.

Edit: on the subject of leadership, maybe a daily rotation of a sort of random jury that deals with a set number of issues. Universal ongoing education would include rigorous training on how to deal with government matters if selected.

 

[Saigonnus]

Government by sortition. Senators are chosen randomly from among the people and closely matches the demographics of society at large. Presidential candidate are also selected at random, and each given the same "platform" from which to run their campaign, so the people still have a say in who they get as president, but within those selected as candidate.

People will always have need of "goods", whether provided by the system, or by each other. Those businesses you mentioned would create the products, whether bottled pasta sauce, or wooden shelves, or whatever.

 

[AlexArcter]

Perhaps the conflict would be some power in the city is doing something to wreck the way of life for those in the rural areas... And that it is a nature vs the corrupting force of industrialization type of tale.

I do have a plot line kind of like that planned where someone is going from place to place and corrupting nature and stirring up trouble.

I feel like the moment you start baking in rewards for doing extra stuff you are basically running a money based economy without the benefit of having actual money. You simply described a Universal Basic Income system.

Not saying it can't work, but I'm doubtful.

I also think the setting becomes more interesting if you drop the reward system and assume everyone does everything for the good of society.

I do like the idea of dropping the reward system. Maybe citizens aren't allowed to access the resources others have gathered and put towards the city/town/village if they don't contribute in some meaningful way instead of rewarding those who can do more with extra.

I don't know If you've read Thomas Mores Utopia or Plato's  Republic, but you may be able to glean some ideas from them.

It would have to be culturally, probably religiously anti-materialistic to come off believably. The reward system would have to be based off of something other than possession or any form of wealth. Accolade, public acknowledgement, a star on the walk of fame... maybe earning your way by merit up a sort of caste system from laborious jobs to more comfortable responsibilities.

Standardize as many things as possible: there aren't expensive things available and the kingdom imports nothing, maybe an island.
There is a low diversity of abundant food sources available.
Technological advancement is task specific and evenly distributed to relevant occupations.
Low diversity/abundant building materials and the architecture is rigourously standardized.
After a painting or sculpture is copied the original is destroyed or put on public display, it's inherant value tallied in some kind of generic collective.

Leaving my personal belief that it would also have to be populated by something other than humans pointedly aside, I think that might get it moving in the right direction.

Edit: on the subject of leadership, maybe a daily rotation of a sort of random jury that deals with a set number of issues. Universal ongoing education would include rigorous training on how to deal with government matters if selected.

I like the idea of making them religiously anti-materialistic. Maybe I'll play around with some ideas for religions and philosophies that the majority of people follow that encourages that kind of anti-materialism.

And while the characters will definitely be humanoid in design they won't be a 1:1 to humans, they'll be a distinct fantasy race that resemble humans.

Government by sortition. Senators are chosen randomly from among the people and closely matches the demographics of society at large. Presidential candidate are also selected at random, and each given the same "platform" from which to run their campaign, so the people still have a say in who they get as president, but within those selected as candidate.

People will always have need of "goods", whether provided by the system, or by each other. Those businesses you mentioned would create the products, whether bottled pasta sauce, or wooden shelves, or whatever.

Letting them choose who their "senators" and leaders are defeats a lot of the purpose of the system I'm playing with.