Mr. Grumpy Pants is back with a good discussion on book piracy and a story Maggie Stiefvater told about 10 years ago on Tumblr but is still quite relevant today. Muchly grumping, some cussing. NSFW
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Book Piracy BAD
- Thread starter A. E. Lowan
- Start date
Prince of Spires
Istar
It's an interesting discussion. For starters, let me say that I think book piracy is bad and hard to justify. Ebooks are cheap. There are plenty that are free and many others between 0,99 and 4,99. They're available everywhere in any format you desire. There is no reason to pirate a book. It's just digital shoplifting at the expense of an author who already earns very little as it is.
This doesn't make this guy's story more than an interesting anecdote though. I'm sure that if you search, you can find authors saying the exact opposite, where pirated copies helped them sell more at some point. It also matters that this is about a later book in a serries, where people had already read the first couple and were eager for the next. And that is was 14 years ago, which is an eternity in digital publishing. Kindle unlimited only launched in 2014 (if Google informs me correctly), with author payout going from $2.5 million to $50 million.
Doesn't mean that this specific author for this specific series didn't suffer from piracy. Just that if published today it may have been different. Or that she may in the long run have benefited, or that for a first in series book, it wouldn't have mattered at all.
Piracy is bad. But it's not something you have much control over as an author or should worry about. Except if you're in Kindle Unlimited, in which case Amazon doesn't like seeing your books list elsewhere and you should actively at least make a show of getting them removed.
This doesn't make this guy's story more than an interesting anecdote though. I'm sure that if you search, you can find authors saying the exact opposite, where pirated copies helped them sell more at some point. It also matters that this is about a later book in a serries, where people had already read the first couple and were eager for the next. And that is was 14 years ago, which is an eternity in digital publishing. Kindle unlimited only launched in 2014 (if Google informs me correctly), with author payout going from $2.5 million to $50 million.
Doesn't mean that this specific author for this specific series didn't suffer from piracy. Just that if published today it may have been different. Or that she may in the long run have benefited, or that for a first in series book, it wouldn't have mattered at all.
Piracy is bad. But it's not something you have much control over as an author or should worry about. Except if you're in Kindle Unlimited, in which case Amazon doesn't like seeing your books list elsewhere and you should actively at least make a show of getting them removed.
xena
Sage
Book piracy is one of those topics that never seems to go away and probably never will. I get why readers sometimes turn to pirated copies, especially when books are unavailable or unaffordable in their region, but at the end of the day it can have a real impact on authors. Particularly indie and smaller authors who rely on those sales. It's definitely a more nuanced discussion than people often make it out to be
Insolent Lad
Archmage
I finally chose to ignore piracy of my books altogether and followed Cory Doctorow's example of giving away the ebooks. If nothing else, it simplified my life.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
I dont see any other recourse than to ignore piracy, its juts too prevalent to be on top of it all.
I'd like to say that its sad. We all have choices in our lives, and some choose to be low lives. What can you do? I'd like the world to be better but its not.
I'd like to say that its sad. We all have choices in our lives, and some choose to be low lives. What can you do? I'd like the world to be better but its not.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
I wonder if flooding the piracy sites with your own pirate copies would be just as effective today.
Mad Swede
Auror
I think this depends on how you publish. Self-published authors are probably in a significantly worse position than those of us with publishing contracts, in that they get to make the choice between trying to nail the pirates or ignoring them (either by giving away e-books or by just not dealing with the pirates). Those of us with publishing contracts have a publisher to back us up, and in my case that means a legal department who can be spectacularly unpleasant when dealing with pirates - about the only thing they don't do is send people round with baseball bats.
I also think this depends on what language you're publishing in. If you write in English then the chances of your book being pirated are probably significantly higher than if you write in a (relative) minority langauge like Swedish.
I also think this depends on what language you're publishing in. If you write in English then the chances of your book being pirated are probably significantly higher than if you write in a (relative) minority langauge like Swedish.
Prince of Spires
Istar
While it sounds nice in theory, I think it practice it will actually be the other way round.
A big powerful legal department is a wonderful thing when dealing with people who care about that sort of thing and who are within reach of said legal department. However, if you run a pirate website, then you are neither of those things. You will have set up your website anonymously in some lovely tropical location whose whole business model depends on not caring about other legal systems or jurisdictions.
These are the people who deal with legal departments of both the film and the gaming industry (both significantly larger and with larger legal departments). They will not care about any unpleasantness a publisher's legal department can throw their way. If anythig, they'd probably take is as a sign that the book in question is worth pirating.
If it wasn't the case, then piracy would already have become extinct.
Which means that you're worse off with a trad publishing deal. After all, trad-publishing is a stamp of quality. Not that all trad books are great or all indie books rubish. But on average, the trad book will be better, and get more publicity, and be better known. All of which means that if you can pirate only 1 random book, you'd pick the trad one.
Interestingly, I think about the only thing that would work is the one thing your legal department doesn't do, which is send round people with baseball bats.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
Maybe we could all join a guild where we pay some dues and they handle the baseball bat aspect of it.
- Thread starter
- #10
Ordinarily that would be the Author's Guild and the SFWA. The RWA also.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
Yeah… ill pass on them
The purpose of writing is to be read, and some will always choose the cheapest option available to fulfill that purpose. If an author decides to offer their story in ebook format, which lends itself to piracy, then they should expect that eventuality. And besides, the fact that folks bother to pirate someone's work means they are more successful than many writers. At least they found some form of an audience.
Mind you, I don't venture into the high seas, but that just further enforces my preference for classic works. The old stories tend to be cheaper in addition to being extensively vetted. Maybe there is a lesson there. Lower the prices. Or alternatively, raise them and get rid of the ebook format. Turn your work into a veblen good. Be wary of the inverse effect that price-raise will have on your reviews though.
Mind you, I don't venture into the high seas, but that just further enforces my preference for classic works. The old stories tend to be cheaper in addition to being extensively vetted. Maybe there is a lesson there. Lower the prices. Or alternatively, raise them and get rid of the ebook format. Turn your work into a veblen good. Be wary of the inverse effect that price-raise will have on your reviews though.
ThrillhoBaggins
Minstrel
Is there anyone out there that opposes this?
pmmg
Myth Weaver
Generally, I am of the belief that free distribution, such as what happened with Garage Bands back in the day, could become a good thing. But I have no way of measuring it, or even really knowing if that is true. In writing it may be completely different. I would however say, some pirates take my work and post it in different places, maybe that can be helpful to me, maybe not. Some pirates, take my story, call themselves the author and post it under a different title, and I feel differently about that. There are so many things you can be in this world, and so many choose to be low life's. Its sad. But, its just the world we live in. I don't know what to do about pirates. I think I just have to accept that they are too big for me to wrestle with, and hope they don't harm me much.
I like what the dude suggested in the video, or putting our your own pirated copies to poison the pond, but...At this point, I am not sure I am even noticed enough for anyone to care.
I am just a small fish in a big pond.
I like what the dude suggested in the video, or putting our your own pirated copies to poison the pond, but...At this point, I am not sure I am even noticed enough for anyone to care.
I am just a small fish in a big pond.
ThrillhoBaggins
Minstrel
True, I suppose there really isn't much you can do about piracy, but there should be someone working on a solution lol.
- Thread starter
- #16
That's going to be the Author's Guild, the SFWA and Writer Beware, the RWA, the HWA, and a small handful of others.
As I said.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
To the degree that these organizations are going after the pirates, more power to them!!!
I am not really a joiner, so I wonder what role they would play if I were not a member. Some, I would never join (SWFA), others, I'd have to look at.
But...What power do they really have? So they send some letters, and try to get Congress to make a law (good luck with that...). But, these pirates are offshore, and not subject to laws. They fly by night and are gone at any hint of trouble just to set up somewhere else.
Not that I would want anyone to get killed over posting my book somewhere, but short of some covert CIA action, I am not sure what would stop them. And even with the CIA, its like swatting flies over a bog. There are just too many.
Maybe there will be a technology answer to this in time, like block chain, or some type of digital license... But then, do we really want that?
I just don't know the answer. I fear, I am just going to have to live with pirates and hope they do me more help than not.
Heck, I can't make any money on the thing, I am sure they can't either. So...at the moment, all they can do is help me with distribution. I would give away free copies anyway to get an initial group of readers.
I am not really a joiner, so I wonder what role they would play if I were not a member. Some, I would never join (SWFA), others, I'd have to look at.
But...What power do they really have? So they send some letters, and try to get Congress to make a law (good luck with that...). But, these pirates are offshore, and not subject to laws. They fly by night and are gone at any hint of trouble just to set up somewhere else.
Not that I would want anyone to get killed over posting my book somewhere, but short of some covert CIA action, I am not sure what would stop them. And even with the CIA, its like swatting flies over a bog. There are just too many.
Maybe there will be a technology answer to this in time, like block chain, or some type of digital license... But then, do we really want that?
I just don't know the answer. I fear, I am just going to have to live with pirates and hope they do me more help than not.
Heck, I can't make any money on the thing, I am sure they can't either. So...at the moment, all they can do is help me with distribution. I would give away free copies anyway to get an initial group of readers.
ThrillhoBaggins
Minstrel
I feel like a good rule for new authors would be to just get your book out there and in front of many eyes as possible, go for the exposure first. Then, when you've made a name for yourself, you can attempt to bring in money through that avenue.
- Thread starter
- #19
Last time I had a safe link to the numbers, I think pirates have put more of our books in hands than we have. Which is a bit frustrating and
We offer found families and families found, gritty urban fantasy, polyamory, crazy-hot men, fast and ridiculously expensive cars, fast and ridiculously dangerous women, complication, and a city on the edge of disaster being held together by a young and addicted wizard trauma surgeon who was never meant to lead.
Welcome to Seahaven.
And all that takes a hell of a lot of work. So...
Clicky. These are friends.
Joiners get further in Publishing than lurkers. Just sayin'.
It is. It's a whole lot. But, personally, I'm too dumb to quit. Irish. Obstinate is a breed trait.
Yes. They touched my stuff. I'm fine with stuff touching, as I'm sure everyone knows, but there's got to be a little give-me-the-money-I-earned-trying-to-get-you-fired-for-reading-in-the-parkinglot-before-work and in exchange...
We offer found families and families found, gritty urban fantasy, polyamory, crazy-hot men, fast and ridiculously expensive cars, fast and ridiculously dangerous women, complication, and a city on the edge of disaster being held together by a young and addicted wizard trauma surgeon who was never meant to lead.
Welcome to Seahaven.
And all that takes a hell of a lot of work. So...
Clicky. These are friends.
