Any Chance you can do a Self Insert Main character without....

[Naruzeldamaster]

It being incredibly obvious and / or also a Mary/ Gary stue.

I was thinking of having this character not be 'me' me, but like, have similar trains of thought.

He's by no means an idealized version of myself, other than having the stamina of a normal person (My disability causes stamina issues for a lot of things )

Usually when I create a character like this ? They come to different conclusions than I would about things (Despite me giving them similar personality quirks) and a lot of the times they surprise me. They're still very much 'me' for the traits of me that I give them, but otherwise they're usually their own person and I love that.

 

[Gurkhal]

I think you can but you need to be aware of your flaws and strengths and maybe do some self-reflection first.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I think you can but you need to be aware of your flaws and strengths and maybe do some self-reflection first.

Yep, that's the trap of a self insert character I think.
I think I'm only going to give him about 20% of my actual personality ?
But same 'logic' when he thinks about stuff. There will be MANY points where he's 'tempted' by things. But in so far he's made the judgement calls that I would. Even coming up with the proto versions of a scene or two.

I've only written one chapter of the story he's in and he's already making smarter calls than I would (other than the plot happening because the Wish needs to happen and for some reason he decided to be the king of "yes and" comedy in that moment)

Just in my short bit of writing him, he's far more social (and socially 'aware' of himself) than I am. Which I like, he does have a lot of my failings though.

 

[pmmg]

No one is going to know it was a self insert who doesn't know you. What they will notice is if the character is getting special treatment, and hitting their BS meter a lot. Avoid that, and no one will care.

Technically, all characters are self inserts of a sort.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

No one is going to know it was a self insert who doesn't know you. What they will notice is if the character is getting special treatment, and hitting their BS meter a lot. Avoid that, and no one will care.

The BS meter is so hard to work around, cause everyone is different even in the audience this story appeals to, but yeah I gotcha.
TBH I don't think my relatives would be able to read my characters and go 'oh that's SO him' cause the bits I include are either 'anime' ified or so minute that the character is entirely new.

Now if I told them directly 'this character is inspired by me and x' they might figure it out.

Technically, all characters are self inserts of a sort.

That too, most people put a tiny bit of themselves into a character if they realize it or not.
At least I feel like I do, it's usually not enough that it would count as a mary sue etc, just enough to help me get in their heads easier.

A lot of my characters (Even ones with the same DNA as me) make decisions I normally wouldn't.

 

[casval]

As you say, I think most authors put a bit of themselves into every character - even the villains and antagonists, if only in contrast. The things we see as 'likeable' traits, the things we see as 'villainous' deeds, perhaps the things we see as 'cool' talents or weapons. Our writing will always have ourselves weaved into it like that. I don't really mesh with the terms 'Mary Sue'/'Gary Stu' but I don't think a self-insert is inherently more likely to be a bad character as long as you are okay giving 'yourself' flaws and letting 'yourself' make mistakes in the narrative.

Most of the time, the reader won't notice... unless you make your protagonist an author. It's the one thing every reader knows intrinsically about you, so it always stands out. Doesn't make it a bad thing! Bilbo and Frodo Baggins are both authors, and those are the foundational texts of our entire genre.

 

[Rudolphthered]

Even when my characters are doing fantastical things, I like to give them some of my traits, knowledge or experiences to *know* and understand them. It's easy because they feel familiar yet also a character of their own.

The bolder your self insert, the more introspective you have to be. Naturally coming to terms with your strengths and flaws. Some ignore the flaws and duplicate the strengths, that's when a self insert begins to hurt the story, creating a Gary/Mary. Self inserts are almost impossible to spot unless you know the author or they are blatantly obvious.

Even so, by being exposed to the story, the character would end up changing according to the events. In the end, if you wish to develop them, they will turn a different person altogether.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

As you say, I think most authors put a bit of themselves into every character - even the villains and antagonists, if only in contrast. The things we see as 'likeable' traits, the things we see as 'villainous' deeds, perhaps the things we see as 'cool' talents or weapons. Our writing will always have ourselves weaved into it like that. I don't really mesh with the terms 'Mary Sue'/'Gary Stu' but I don't think a self-insert is inherently more likely to be a bad character as long as you are okay giving 'yourself' flaws and letting 'yourself' make mistakes in the narrative.

Most of the time, the reader won't notice... unless you make your protagonist an author. It's the one thing every reader knows intrinsically about you, so it always stands out. Doesn't make it a bad thing! Bilbo and Frodo Baggins are both authors, and those are the foundational texts of our entire genre.

The 'mary / gary stu' term is more frowned upon in the fanfiction scene (Especially a certain 'kind' of fanfiction, which I'm staying as far away from as possible) I have not seen much talk of it on this forum (Thankfully ) nor have I seen much convo about Self Inserts.

Self Inserts can VERY easily become one though especially in Fanfiction (Which is probably why they're frowned upon regardless of what story you're doing) which has me being extra cautious of doing them these days. I'd argue that the 'trap' of doing a proper self insert character is to make them an idealized version of yourself who never fails. As authors, it's very easy to fall for that trap while we're still green. I'd argue I'm still pretty green lol despite having a lot of 'practice' I have not yet finished one of my original works.

I once wrote one of those 'let's do every fandom in one written story somehow' stories and people were (Somehow) enjoying it, I had to end it when it went from Starfox to Naruto lol I was running out of fandoms I knew at the time.

 

[casval]

The 'mary / gary stu' term is more frowned upon in the fanfiction scene (Especially a certain 'kind' of fanfiction, which I'm staying as far away from as possible) I have not seen much talk of it on this forum (Thankfully ) nor have I seen much convo about Self Inserts.

Haha, true, but I guess... for what that genre's readers desire, it's not inherently a bad thing either. Less of a 'self' insert and more of a 'reader' insert, perhaps, but the appeal of a lot of romance and... 'spicy romance' novels is the illusion of being the protagonist and being desired by the romantic lead. A lot of romance novels are written in the first person to facilitate this. Not all romance novels do this, but it clearly appeals to a certain demographic and I must imagine there's a bit of an art to writing a 'good' self-insert as well even in these sort of fanfiction/'fanfiction with the names scratched off'-type stories.

But I'm with you that it's really not for me, personally. Perhaps because I'm a lesbian, I'm not sure I've ever seen that sort of romance with a female love interest.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Haha, true, but I guess... for what that genre's readers desire, it's not inherently a bad thing either. Less of a 'self' insert and more of a 'reader' insert, perhaps, but the appeal of a lot of romance and... 'spicy romance' novels is the illusion of being the protagonist and being desired by the romantic lead. A lot of romance novels are written in the first person to facilitate this. Not all romance novels do this, but it clearly appeals to a certain demographic and I must imagine there's a bit of an art to writing a 'good' self-insert as well even in these sort of fanfiction/'fanfiction with the names scratched off'-type stories.

Well there's this genre of anime I like called a Harem, my ONE pet peeve with it is that the male Main Protagonist (who the viewer is supposed to daydream as) is...usually a moron, sometimes in 'normal' ways (Tenchi from Tenchi muyo is pretty normal considering his situation if you check that show out you'd understand what I mean haha.) and sometimes in ways that I want to punch them in the face constantly. I drop those ones like a hot rock because I know exactly what the recurring bit is going to be. I don't care how cool/good the waifus are, if the male lead makes me want to murder him every time he opens his yap I ain't watching lol

I'm sure fanfictions of those shows exist where the protagonist is actually sane and somehow the story reaches a good conclusion, but yeah no, not my style of writing unless it's original fiction entirely.

But I'm with you that it's really not for me, personally. Perhaps because I'm a lesbian, I'm not sure I've ever seen that sort of romance with a female love interest.

I assure you there's 'romance' for everyone lol there's people who make 'hear me out' posts about pokemon (I wish I was joking)
Especially on AO3, but the quality is pretty questionable on there.

I don't know about shows but there's a couple of games (notably the Atelier series has a couple ) that ship their female protagonists together. It's not as 'forward' as when they ship a male and female lead but still.

Going Back to the self insert topic, I think that's how a lot of the Isekai anime are born from, the author wanting some kind of power fantasy.

 

[pmmg]

I dont really like my relatives reading mine. They dont care for fantasy like I do.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I dont really like my relatives reading mine. They dont care for fantasy like I do.

Yeah same here, they don't even care for the classic stuff like lord of the rings etc.
Heck they barely like Star Wars.

 

[casval]

Well there's this genre of anime I like called a Harem, my ONE pet peeve with it is that the male Main Protagonist (who the viewer is supposed to daydream as) is...usually a moron, sometimes in 'normal' ways (Tenchi from Tenchi muyo is pretty normal considering his situation if you check that show out you'd understand what I mean haha.) and sometimes in ways that I want to punch them in the face constantly. I drop those ones like a hot rock because I know exactly what the recurring bit is going to be. I don't care how cool/good the waifus are, if the male lead makes me want to murder him every time he opens his yap I ain't watching lol

Harem anime are definitely another example of that - definitely not a genre for me, but my wife was a fan of Tenchi Muyo! when she was a teenager, so I've seen a bit of that when she did a rewatch a few years ago! I have a soft spot for Maison Ikkoku, too, Rumiko Takahashi has a talent for giving me things to like in genres outside my comfort zone. But it's definitely harder to watch, or read, self-insert stories like this when the protagonist is usually a dumb teen boy. Not an experience I can relate to, haha.

I assure you there's 'romance' for everyone lol there's people who make 'hear me out' posts about pokemon (I wish I was joking)

The internet is a place of many mysteries. But I'm writing a fantasy novel where the romantic lead is an Arachne-esque spider woman, so I can't judge!

There's certainly great lesbian romance novels out there - shout out to Sarah Waters! - but it can be hard to find the good ones. And it's very rare I see the more self-insert-oriented lesbian romances, they tend to both be fully developed characters in the ones I've read. Which I like, and is how I write romances in my own stories if they have a romantic subplot, but still... very different market from straight romance novels.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Harem anime are definitely another example of that - definitely not a genre for me, but my wife was a fan of Tenchi Muyo! when she was a teenager, so I've seen a bit of that when she did a rewatch a few years ago! I have a soft spot for Maison Ikkoku, too, Rumiko Takahashi has a talent for giving me things to like in genres outside my comfort zone. But it's definitely harder to watch, or read, self-insert stories like this when the protagonist is usually a dumb teen boy. Not an experience I can relate to, haha.

I both like and don't like them, the things I don't like them are probably the same reasons you don't. The reasons I like them is that the good/wholesome ones tend to be pretty good character wise. You gotta sift through a LOT of the dirt to find the good/wholesome ones though. Which is my complaint about the genre overall. I think it is possible to do it well. But so many authors fall into the 'trap' that this story type has. Tenchi Muyo is solid and the characters are great. I'd rewatch that any day over some of the more 'modern' examples.

The internet is a place of many mysteries. But I'm writing a fantasy novel where the romantic lead is an Arachne-esque spider woman, so I can't judge!

I've seen some pretty funny Visual Novels / Horror games where yes, the female love interest is a spooky thing. You'd be surprised how many of those there are...though again, you gotta sift through a lot of 'slop' to find the funny/good ones.

Sucker For Love is hilarious with it's self awareness. It knows what it IS (A funny dating sim about Eldritch horrors) and doesn't hesitate to make fun of itself. The voice actress does a stellar job too lol

There's certainly great lesbian romance novels out there - shout out to Sarah Waters! - but it can be hard to find the good ones. And it's very rare I see the more self-insert-oriented lesbian romances, they tend to both be fully developed characters in the ones I've read. Which I like, and is how I write romances in my own stories if they have a romantic subplot, but still... very different market from straight romance novels.

Yeah, there's something for everyone if you're willing to look, that's what's cool (And terrifying) about the internet. :3

 

[casval]

I've seen some pretty funny Visual Novels / Horror games where yes, the female love interest is a spooky thing. You'd be surprised how many of those there are...though again, you gotta sift through a lot of 'slop' to find the funny/good ones.

My sense of humor and the sense of humor of most game devs are so far apart, it can be hard to find ones I click with. But there are some greats out there. I really love The Chrono Jotter, though that one does have a very defined protagonist - much less of a self-insert than some visual novels. Same with of the Devil, the protagonist is... doing some wild stuff you have no control over, to say the least. Maybe I really don't like self-inserts after all, haha.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

My sense of humor and the sense of humor of most game devs are so far apart, it can be hard to find ones I click with. But there are some greats out there. I really love The Chrono Jotter, though that one does have a very defined protagonist - much less of a self-insert than some visual novels. Same with of the Devil, the protagonist is... doing some wild stuff you have no control over, to say the least. Maybe I really don't like self-inserts after all, haha.

My sense of humor is very literal/dry so I'm hard to amuse. Part of the reason my characters are so 'silly' is because they're very 'ME' core but they wind up being fun to write anyway. Granted they're quite a bit more eccentric than I am in real life. But a lot of them have a trait of my own that make me smile.

But if a video game gets a chuckle out of me it gets a point. Because I'm very dad joke / similar humor focused
I've probably wheezed at things the game developers never intended me to wheeze at. Maybe there were some that they did intend me to wheeze at but not for the reasons I do. (90% of Xenoblade Moments where the devs are trying to make you laugh)

 

[A. E. Lowan]

All three of us have one or two. Sometimes an author can make one without knowing. That's how I accidentally made my dad into a gay Viking Vampire King. Big noise makers, the both of them.

The two that belong to me and my wife are going to start having brief cameos in Book 4 and then Book 7 they crash the party.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

That's how I accidentally made my dad into a gay Viking Vampire King.

It happens to the best of us.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

It happens to the best of us.

He's obnoxious, and bellows and swears in exactly the same ways. Jenny used to think he was calling my name when he sneezed. I never told him, but that's okay.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

It happens to the best of us.

I've got a couple of characters that may or may not be based on some of the doctors I have been to. One time I'm fairly certain it was just cause of how the lady doctor carried herself. She was a fine person otherwise though lol

tweenaged/early twenties me was very easily distracted by that stuff when his writing gears got grooving.

These days I rarely base characters on people I've only met once or twice. At least not intentionally. People online I tend to be hit or miss on, I have to really chat with them to get a vibe for what they're like lol