When and When not to capitalize phrases?

[Naruzeldamaster]

So this is something I struggle with these days.
Understanding when to capitalize a name/race/location/title etc.

For example in fantasy race names are often capitalized, but when spoken in dialogue, sometimes they aren't?
I know titles (King / Queen etc) are usually capitalized but I don't have too many of those in my story.

 

[pmmg]

I capitalize everything...too much really,

But the answer to this can be found in many style guides. I usually refer to the internet, or Strunk and White when I need to.

Some of those capitalization rules are 'optional'. I strive most for uniformity. Try figuring out when to capitalize a title like Captain, and get it right every time...


Capitalize "Captain" when it is used directly before a person’s name (e.g., Captain Smith) or when it is used directly in place of a name (e.g., "What do you think, Captain?").

Lower-case "captain" when it is used as a common noun or follows a name (e.g., Smith was a captain in the navy; the captain steered the ship).


Me, I probably would have just capitalized it in every instance. I would certainly have written, 'the Captain steered the ship'. (<--I see google AI/Grammar checker is complaining at how I wrote that...)


BTW, the question asks about capitalizing phrases. I am not sure you ever do, you might put it in quotes.

 

[Karlin]

I woRRy aboUt such thNgs aftEr finisjunG a drafT

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I woRRy aboUt such thNgs aftEr finisjunG a drafT

true but if I could knock a few out while writing said draft it'd help with editing later.
Also I'm not that worried about it, was just curious.

 

[casval]

Same as pmmg, I will reference a style guide. Probably CMOS, but that's just because it was the standard when I worked more in journalism and non-fiction. There are times when I might want to 'break a rule' for narrative or stylistic purposes, but most of the time, I value the consistency of following a style guide.

In English, in the real world, we tend not to capitalize 'human' or 'person' unless it is part of the name of an organization but we always capitalize nationalities (e.g. Colombian, Polish, Senegalese). So I would not capitalize 'elf' but I would capitalize 'Elflander.' Assuming, at least, that by fantasy races we are discussing beings that are of functionally different species. It gets more complicated if your fantasy races are more of a social construct ala race in our world, but that would require knowing the specifics of the worldbuilding to explore the possibilities of what is or is not appropriate to capitalize and when.

 

[pmmg]

FTR, since it got weird capitalizing Elf and not human, I came up with another name for humans just to capitalize them. Problem solved.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Same as pmmg, I will reference a style guide. Probably CMOS, but that's just because it was the standard when I worked more in journalism and non-fiction. There are times when I might want to 'break a rule' for narrative or stylistic purposes, but most of the time, I value the consistency of following a style guide.

In English, in the real world, we tend not to capitalize 'human' or 'person' unless it is part of the name of an organization but we always capitalize nationalities (e.g. Colombian, Polish, Senegalese). So I would not capitalize 'elf' but I would capitalize 'Elflander.' Assuming, at least, that by fantasy races we are discussing beings that are of functionally different species. It gets more complicated if your fantasy races are more of a social construct ala race in our world, but that would require knowing the specifics of the worldbuilding to explore the possibilities of what is or is not appropriate to capitalize and when.

Stuff I've been capitalizing so far.

Race names but specifically when describing the race 'The Stone Blood Elves can do X for y amount of time' and usually when the character's name has not been revealed yet but will have a proper name. In Dialogue I've been trying to make a habit of capitalizing them.

Titles: King/Queen etc, the only one I haven't been doing is noble man/woman because I'm not 100% sure on that one.

For now everythings in the 'write it ugly' phase and I'll do some cleanup work after.

 

[casval]

For now everythings in the 'write it ugly' phase and I'll do some cleanup work after.

Fixing it in the edit is often for the best, no reason to lose your flow... unless it's going to bother you until you know the answer.

And no need to capitalize nobleman/woman, unless you use 'Noble' as a title in your world.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Fixing it in the edit is often for the best, no reason to lose your flow... unless it's going to bother you until you know the answer.

And no need to capitalize nobleman/woman, unless you use 'Noble' as a title in your world.

Nah when I've been using it I've been using it in the 'standard' way, referring to members of a royal/noble house.
I do have some titles though
There are the Dragon Kin (Species of humanoids) Dragons as in the Scaly lizards, and Dragons (Title) it's even confusing ME a bit and I'm writing it lol

Also I recently re discovered where I had heard 'black sand steel' from.

It's an Item in Fire Emblem (Although doesn't have the same lore as mine)

 

[Mad Swede]

OK. First, what you are asking is when to capitalise nouns and names, not phrases.

And the answer - in the English language - is simple. You capitalise proper nouns and proper names, but not common nouns and common names. You need to read up on what proper nouns and proper names are, there are several good sources on the internet, including the online Mirriam_webster dictionary.

Second, don't worry about style guides, concentrate on getting your basic grammar right when you write your stories.

Style editing is something which comes much later and is best done by someone working for the organistion who will publish your story (or whatever text piece you've written). Many organisations and publishers (usually academic publishers) have style guides which describe how text etc should be formatted and (sometimes) phrased or spelled, but as a writer you don't usually have to worry about these unless you work for the organisation concerned.

 

[pmmg]

And the answer - in the English language - is simple.

I am not sure anything in the English Language is simple.

 

[Mad Swede]

I am not sure anything in the English Language is simple.

Trust me, it is in this case. To take Swedish and the other Nordic languages as an example, proper nouns and proper names are sometimes (but only sometimes) capitalised...

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Trust me, it is in this case. To take Swedish and the other Nordic languages as an example, proper nouns and proper names are sometimes (but only sometimes) capitalised...

I tend to flout grammar and syntax and spelling, so capital letters get no respect. I - and there's always some pushback from my better thirds, but I win three books running - will tend to capitalize seemingly at random, but it's not. Titles, like Wolf King or Eldest or even Lord, get capitalized when they are a political position, but wolf king or lion queen are levels of power. Either way, titles are earned, and that emphasis that few can hear means worlds for the right person trying to change their stars.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I tend to flout grammar and syntax and spelling, so capital letters get no respect. I - and there's always some pushback from my better thirds, but I win three books running - will tend to capitalize seemingly at random, but it's not. Titles, like Wolf King or Eldest or even Lord, get capitalized when they are a political position, but wolf king or lion queen are levels of power. Either way, titles are earned, and that emphasis that few can hear means worlds for the right person trying to change their stars.

How would you deal with a particular thing (well not really thing, but kind of a world building thing) I'm having?
I have Dragons, like mushu (But bigger, obviously) and other sorts of dragons. They are called "Dragon"
There's also the Scaled humans with wings (They're a lot more human than dragon, but they do have scales etc) called Dragon Kin, they are called this because at SOME point, someone thought it'd be a good idea to do that with one of the Dragons watching over the continents.
Then there's "Dragon" as a title, it's not like a formality, it's like you have plot armor if you have this title.

I've been mixing and matching capitalizing them, depending on how they're being referred to.
I imagine the reader will get tired of the word Dragon if I mention all three of them too much lol

 

[A. E. Lowan]

How would you deal with a particular thing (well not really thing, but kind of a world building thing) I'm having?
I have Dragons, like mushu (But bigger, obviously) and other sorts of dragons. They are called "Dragon"
There's also the Scaled humans with wings (They're a lot more human than dragon, but they do have scales etc) called Dragon Kin, they are called this because at SOME point, someone thought it'd be a good idea to do that with one of the Dragons watching over the continents.
Then there's "Dragon" as a title, it's not like a formality, it's like you have plot armor if you have this title.

I've been mixing and matching capitalizing them, depending on how they're being referred to.
I imagine the reader will get tired of the word Dragon if I mention all three of them too much lol

You're not wrong. lol

We have six types of dragons, spanning the world and the oceans, but the most common - in a race that is slowly watching its own extinction roll along - are Eastern and Western dragons. "Dragon," is a species name, like human or road runner. Names like this that exist in common usage tend to stick, and dragons are immortals, so they stick for a long time.

We also have dragonkin, much like we also have demonkin. Dragons are as a whole really focused on species survival, and considering they can be killed by even a human with enough motivation, so they take genetics very seriously. Any dragon born with 1/4 or more dragon heritage gets to be called a dragon. Usually with a designation, like 'she's a half-dragon,' Below and we get the fyerie, who often spend their lives serving in the Dragon Courts. Note the capitalization. Within the Courts, most rulers will go by Dragon King or Dragon Queen. The oldest known dragon is Queen Mei-Lien. She is roughly 6000 years old and is widely regarded as a major political player both among preternaturals and human governments alike.

Taking a look at what you're working with, have you considered if your dragons have their own language? Ours do, they speak Draconic because yes, I am original like that. "Fyerie" is a Draconic word. You can have a lot of fun thinking up titles, and that would provide the distinction between rolls that you're looking for.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

You're not wrong. lol

I may have to come up with a different word for the title then. That one is the one that comes up most often due to the plot. Dragon Kin comes up less so because as far as the party is aware only the one they meet is one of them. There's a plot relevant Dragon Kin

We have six types of dragons, spanning the world and the oceans, but the most common - in a race that is slowly watching its own extinction roll along - are Eastern and Western dragons. "Dragon," is a species name, like human or road runner. Names like this that exist in common usage tend to stick, and dragons are immortals, so they stick for a long time.

My Dragons are pretty few in number, but the ones that are still alive (I'd say there's about 20 ish of them total) are thousands of years old (you know as you do) there's at least one who's kind of human shaped, but giant, bit of a shut in that one, but she's a big player in the relationship between dragons and humans. The other dragons are actually a bit annoyed she tends to take the human's side lol Also to be clear I mean all humans, elves, giants, my rabbit folk etc, not just vanilla humans.

We also have dragonkin, much like we also have demonkin. Dragons are as a whole really focused on species survival, and considering they can be killed by even a human with enough motivation, so they take genetics very seriously. Any dragon born with 1/4 or more dragon heritage gets to be called a dragon. Usually with a designation, like 'she's a half-dragon,' Below and we get the fyerie, who often spend their lives serving in the Dragon Courts. Note the capitalization. Within the Courts, most rulers will go by Dragon King or Dragon Queen. The oldest known dragon is Queen Mei-Lien. She is roughly 6000 years old and is widely regarded as a major political player both among preternaturals and human governments alike.

I might steal that demon kin idea, I have a few races that don't quite fit the 'human like' shape. I have a Tanuki species (Very adorable) and some Snow Ghost Maidens (who aren't literally ghosts but they're based on that particular Yokai) and I'm planning a couple others too like Nekomota (Two Tailed Cat Folk)

Taking a look at what you're working with, have you considered if your dragons have their own language? Ours do, they speak Draconic because yes, I am original like that. "Fyerie" is a Draconic word. You can have a lot of fun thinking up titles, and that would provide the distinction between rolls that you're looking for.

I hadn't thought about dragons having their own language.
I was thinking my dragons could have 'divine' knowledge too. Being that it's a comedy of errors type adventure, they could mention the 'author' a few times and the party is all '?? author ?? ' lol