Don't you hate it when you realize....

[Ralavik]

that major story elements you come up with have been done before? I'm wondering if it's a subconscious thing.

For example: I like where I am with the origins of Godhood and creation. Put simply, before they manifested into personified beings, they were spirits of energy. Because they 'create' themselves, so to speak, I feel this naturally leads into why the world would be created next. Kind of like an experiment, of which I already have neat ideas (at least to me) of where races will end up because of these beginnings. I find it much more to my tastes rather than saying these specific gods existed and so did the world with no explanation. I see it that the only thing that can slide like that is the "origin" itself, whether it be the father god, or the universe, etc.

Anyway, the problem with the above is that it kind of reminds me of Star Wars. The jedi Qui-Gon 'learned' to manifest himself in the force, which is similar to my idea. Maybe that can slide...

The second thing is a bit too much like Lord of the Ring's, though, I'm afraid.

One of the main story arcs is that one of the God's falls to evil, and is eventually banished into the Abyssal Realm. Well, the only reasonable thing to do is want to get out, and reclaim his personified image again (to be made whole). I think you can see the resemblance, and it's kind of bumming me out.


Anyways, what do you guys do when you suddenly realize your story is too 'cliche' or too much like another story in major areas (but you really like the direction)? Do you change it or keep it?

Oh, I'm new here by the way - hello.

 

[WyrdMystic]

Try not to analyse it too much to start with if it's what you want to write. I doubt anyone can actually come up with a major plot that hasn't been done before and can't be compared to something else somewhere along the line. The thing that decides whether something is original or not is more 'how the story is told' and 'how the plot is spun' rather than the overarching story itself.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

Yes. I would agree with WyrdMystic. Don't fall into the trap of originality where we believe our ideas or plots must be completely fresh to be worthy. The truth is, it's all been done before. Your writers voice and your telling of the story through characters you devised, are what makes a story seem fresh or new.

Now, if you had a character that was almost the same as a Jedi, manifesting themselves in something too similar to The Force...maybe that would be cutting it too close. However, the idea of a god manifesting in this way has been around a long, long time. You aren't the first writer to think along those lines & you won't be the last.

Do yourself a favor and try not to worry about those details while you write the first draft. Chances are, there will be developments along the way that change the scope of your story and make it all appear very different from these famous tales.

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

I had this chief, big unpleasant character, huge, selfish, over indulged, hideous, cruel, has a tribe of creatures in an underground cave. Then the Hobbit came out and I thought "bloody hell" I've written the great goblin!"

 

[advait98]

If you fear your ideas are not original every time you round the corner, you'll have a hard time getting anywhere.

No idea is original in the whole of fiction, no matter how many years you spend on it, it will always have some nuances (or is that the wrong word) of another older idea.

So like T Allen Smith said, do yourself a favour and plough on. Who knows, perhaps as you progress with your story, you might get an idea for another twist. It happened to me.

 

[Sean Cunningham]

One of the main story arcs is that one of the God's falls to evil, and is eventually banished into the Abyssal Realm.

In what sense does the god fall to evil?

 

[wordwalker]

It's easy to look at one thing and say it's been done; the thing is, readers don't mind. In fact, they cheer: we all love the classic elements of heroes, villains, and so many of the familiar things they can do.

(Tolkien? the man was a scholar of mythology, trying to recombine known images into a "creation myth" that would resonate with people, and he did. The great Trope Codifier.)

What matters isn't whether some ideas are "original," it's how you arrange them. A hack lets them fall into the shape other people give them, and the story comes out cliche. A real writer uses a mix of things and sequences that are true to his own vision of it, and if he sees that vision clearly enough it'll make the total original. Guaranteed.

 

[teacup]

I know how you feel kind of.
I'm nearly finished with my novel and the antagonist (kind of) is named Victarion, which I recently realised is a name of one of George R R Martins characters in A song of ice and fire.
Now this name is absolutely perfect for the character - He chose it himself because it means victory (in my story) which shows how proud and confident he is that he will win, he would settle for nothing less than victory. (Even will be names "Victarion the Vicious" later on)

So I might have to change his name and settle for Victor or something.

On a side note anyone think Victoris/Victorix would work?

 

[Kit]

If you browse TV Tropes, every single thing you can think of will be on there.

You just have to get over it and write what you want to write. Just avoid the most glaring offenses, like naming your MC Frodo.

 

[Feo Takahari]

I don't entirely agree with the typical view on creativity on this forum--I've put down books solely because I've read the same plot done better in another book. Still, the point of differentiation is up to you.

To use a personal example, Kids These Days revolves around a metaphysical proposition I stole directly from Persona 4. I think the story still qualifies as different, because it's about a different character arc, and reaches conclusions that are in some ways opposite to those of Persona 4. Or, to use something you might actually be familiar with, Lukyanenko's Night Watch is very clearly based on the same divide as Star Wars, albeit in a contemporary setting. It makes the distinction that the dark-side users actually believe in the Randian philosophy they preach, and the story goes in a very different direction because of it.

 

[Anders Ämting]

that major story elements you come up with have been done before? I'm wondering if it's a subconscious thing.

It's more like a "built into the way we tell stories" thing.

For example: I like where I am with the origins of Godhood and creation. Put simply, before they manifested into personified beings, they were spirits of energy. Because they 'create' themselves, so to speak, I feel this naturally leads into why the world would be created next. Kind of like an experiment, of which I already have neat ideas (at least to me) of where races will end up because of these beginnings. I find it much more to my tastes rather than saying these specific gods existed and so did the world with no explanation. I see it that the only thing that can slide like that is the "origin" itself, whether it be the father god, or the universe, etc.

Anyway, the problem with the above is that it kind of reminds me of Star Wars.

That's funny, non of that reminded me even remotely of Star Wars.

The jedi Qui-Gon 'learned' to manifest himself in the force, which is similar to my idea. Maybe that can slide...

The second thing is a bit too much like Lord of the Ring's, though, I'm afraid.

One of the main story arcs is that one of the God's falls to evil, and is eventually banished into the Abyssal Realm. Well, the only reasonable thing to do is want to get out, and reclaim his personified image again (to be made whole). I think you can see the resemblance, and it's kind of bumming me out.

Yeah, well, Star Wars and Lord of the Rings are both, essentially, artificial myths. They are damn near textbook examples of the Monomyth, and lifts a lot of themes and imagery directly from various mythologies. Neither Tolkien nor Lucas invented anything new - Tolkien wanted to create his own mythology, and Lucas wanted to recreate the adventure movies of his childhood.

Originality was the last thing these guys were concerned with. Rather than trying to create something nobody had ever seen before, they picked out something that they really, really liked and made it their own. That's how creativity works. Trying to avoid influences just kills it, and down that road lies endless frustration and depression.

Anyways, what do you guys do when you suddenly realize your story is too 'cliche' or too much like another story in major areas (but you really like the direction)? Do you change it or keep it?

Honestly, whenever this happens I firmly believe that the problem is not that you are being too derivative, but that you aren't derivative enough.

It means you are not drawing enough inspiration from a wide enough number of sources. The more influences you have, the more distinct your own style becomes when they all mix together in your brain. Even better, by comparing them you'll be able to isolate the things about them that you really love, and that's when your style really takes shape.

Creativity is about love. That sounds cheesy, but it's true. The more stories you love and admire, the more creative you will be, the more you will care about what you create.

 

[Ralavik]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll stick to it and see what becomes of the story.

@Sean - The usual thing of hubris and all that. I may change it up though and go a different route more concerning the creations themselves.

 

[TheokinsJ]

This happens to me all the time, sometimes I come up with ideas all with my own thought and imagination, think it's brilliant, and then my heart sinks when I remember that a similar thing was done in a game I once played or a movie I once watched. In these situations, I go back to the drawing board. I rethink, rework and rewrite. I think as writers we are more aware about other people's ideas than the reader is. I mean, I didn't even know about the star wars thing, and the idea of the dark lord becoming hole was probably a bit too much like LOTR, but if I'd read about it in a book it probably wouldn't have even crossed my mind. It's good to be aware of not being too similar to other people's ideas, but at the end of the day, remember that there have been thousands of writers before you, and someone has probably come up with it before you did, unless you really thought about your plot and idea and came up with something completely original and unique. Be aware but don't be overly worried if it seems slightly similar to something that has come before, it's your story and your idea, just rethink and manipulate it to make it slightly more original.

 

[Kit]

This happens to me all the time, sometimes I come up with ideas all with my own thought and imagination, think it's brilliant, and then my heart sinks when I remember that a similar thing was done in a game I once played or a movie I once watched.

That doesn't annoy me *NEARLY* as much as when I come up with a great idea, research it and discover that the exact thing has been done before but I **KNOW** that I have never read that book or seen that movie.

In the first case, you think, "Okay, that was buried in my subconscious somewhere," but in the second case, it really *WAS* your great idea, and you feel truly robbed.

 

[Ayaka Di'rutia]

If I came up with an idea, even if its subconsciously similar to something that's already been used, I usually keep it anyway. It's your imagination, your story (and it's fantasy!). I would definitely draw the line when it came to plagiarism, though.

Your ideas sound unique; I didn't even think of Star Wars until you pointed it out. They sound most similar to me to Christian beliefs (being a spirit before, coming to the world), but I find nothing wrong with that either. I would say keep with these ideas if they please you.

 

[Penpilot]

Here are three movies with pretty much the exact same plot and plot elements, but I don't think too many people realize it or would confuse the three.

Alien
Jaws
Fatal attraction

It's all in your execution.

 

[Philip Overby]

It's kind of like that old South Park episode where Butters keeps thinking of evil plots and his sidekick says, "Simpsons did it!" The Simpsons have been around forever, so they've done almost every conceivable idea possible to create a story from.

I agree with what most people have said: don't worry about truly being original. That said, however, you should still try to inject whatever uniqueness you can into your stories. Usually this is done by your style.

Terry Pratchett is often considered to be a great writer of comic fantasy. I'm in the camp of believing he's done some incredibly original things with some tired tropes. It's because of his style that people love him so much. He subverts tropes left and right and makes them his own. Your style is going to make you stand above the rest of the pack. Like Feo said, if you're doing something someone else has done, but you've done it better, then people will flock to you rather than others.

However, (again) some readers like a certain amount of predictability in their stories. They want to read a certain kind of story with certain kinds of characters or read "something that's like that one book I read." People like to read things similar to stuff they like, so it's not going to hurt to write something similar, just try not to directly rip anyone off.