Step by Step Worldbuilding

[caters]

I don't often know where to start with worldbuilding.

Artefexian takes astronomy first when worldbuilding, particularly stars first, then planets, then moons.

I did his Build 1000 stars and I had to keep adjusting the measurements for the 1 solar mass stars to 1 in relation to the sun

I did lowest mass first for each spectral type to be safe.

The planets are what trouble me here. I can't easily look up minimums and maximums for different types of planets such as mini neptunes vs super earths vs hot saturns vs dwarf planets.

And for those I need mass, radius, density, and distance in AU to the star or stars and from those I can deduce the orbit properties.

I also can't easily figure out relative gravity(how much more or less gravity an astronomical body has compared to earth) and physics is my least favorite science.

So this means that exact composition of solar systems for me is practically impossible. However I know that red dwarfs are more likely to have 1 and just 1 planet and F type stars are most likely to have lots of planets and all stars in this range are outside of the mass range for type 2 supernovas. Type 1s can still occur though.

Because of this, I don't usually get to solar system level worldbuilding, much less star clusters.

I usually instead start with a single planet and get into more detail about that 1 planet. However in my story about humans living with dinosaurs, I will have lots of astronomy in the chapters about the trip from earth to this other planet.

Usually this astronomy is scattered with the rest of what the humans learn. Like for example the computers might say Warning, Supernova. The aliens would need to know whether it is going to form a black hole or a neutron star or eject 1 or more stars and change course accordingly. The humans would have to huddle together under sturdy structures. Then afterwards the aliens would teach the humans about supernovae, neutron stars, and black holes and the normal day/night cycle on the generation ship would continue.

Anyway, when they get to the solar system with the planet that has dinosaurs I will have to do astronomy level worldbuilding. But once again I can't find minimums and maximums for a lot of planet types. However I need these minimums and maximums, otherwise I could have a 15 earth mass, 2 earth radius, neptune-like planet and consider it a mini neptune according to radius. However this does not make sense at all since neptune's density is way lower than earth's density and at 1 jupiter mass(same as 15 earth masses) and 2 earth radii, the planet would be extremely dense and most likely be a pure iron planet.

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

Let me be so bold as to ask a question. How necessary for the story is it to have this kind of astronomical detail? I ask this because I had the same problem as you. Where should I start world building? My answer finally came, it is that the world should affect the plot I want to write. Once i figure out the general plot I create the world to reflect the challenges presented with the plot. Sometimes I have to change the plot to better fit the world. Any bit of world building that does not directly relate to the plot gets relegated to a lesser tier of world building.

 

[We Rise Above]

Reading Caters' post makes me glad that I don't have any story ideas that require that kind of detailed worldbuilding. I'm not sure I could handle that sort of intricacy.

My worldbuilding tends to start on a character-based level: where is my protagonist? What's around them? What's around that? Bit by bit, I come up with a setting or a country or two. I don't think I'll ever be working on a planetary scale. If you do, you have my admiration.

 

[Russ]

If the information is necessary in that detail level (and I have my doubts) why world build at all. Why not just look at real systems and emulate one?

 

[caters]

The reason that I would world build at astronomy level is that the fictional solar system is most likely not anything like the solar systems we have discovered so far.

It is most likely similar to our own but with an earth-like planet in the density and mass range and thus gravity range that humans can tolerate but not an exact earth twin. It would also probably have gas giants such as super-jupiters(up to 15 jupiter masses), gas dwarfs such as mini-neptunes, hot jupiters(close to the star or stars), dwarf planets, and maybe even an iron planet.

 

[Entrisen]

It really doesn't have to be more complicated than it needs to be, you need to plot out main events for your story, how the environment will effect and influence the plot points, and shape your world more around that. Write your first couple of drafts, that will give you an idea of where it should go and if the world fits with your story. If it doesn't work, that's okay it's only a draft. But writing the story and molding the world as you go really helps. Just makes lots of notes and what not. Your first draft does not need to look anything like the finished product. Hope that helps in some way!

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

The reason that I would world build at astronomy level is that the fictional solar system is most likely not anything like the solar systems we have discovered so far.

It is most likely similar to our own but with an earth-like planet in the density and mass range and thus gravity range that humans can tolerate but not an exact earth twin. It would also probably have gas giants such as super-jupiters(up to 15 jupiter masses), gas dwarfs such as mini-neptunes, hot jupiters(close to the star or stars), dwarf planets, and maybe even an iron planet.

But is that kind of detail going to impact your story?

 

[caters]

When the civilization has been established, they will probably use these planets to base their calendar. The hot jupiters would be good for week length = orbital period

The moon would establish the month and they would do math to figure out how many times the hot jupiter orbits the star or stars during the time the moon orbits once and thus know how long the month is.

The super jupiters and mini neptunes might establish units longer than a year. Dwarf planets might not establish any time period but still be important to the humans.

 

[Russ]

When the civilization has been established, they will probably use these planets to base their calendar. The hot jupiters would be good for week length = orbital period

The moon would establish the month and they would do math to figure out how many times the hot jupiter orbits the star or stars during the time the moon orbits once and thus know how long the month is.

The super jupiters and mini neptunes might establish units longer than a year. Dwarf planets might not establish any time period but still be important to the humans.

Other than nostalgia why on earth would a technologically advanced society use planetary motions to determine the length of a month or week?

 

[Ireth]

Other than nostalgia why on earth would a technologically advanced society use planetary motions to determine the length of a month or week?

...Because that's how we do it? Our weeks are a certain number of days, which are measured by the Earth's rotations. Some calendars use the phases of the moon to measure months rather than the less consistent Gregorian calendar. How is that not derived from planetary motions?

 

[Russ]

...Because that's how we do it? Our weeks are a certain number of days, which are measured by the Earth's rotations. Some calendars use the phases of the moon to measure months rather than the less consistent Gregorian calendar. How is that not derived from planetary motions?

Absolutely. We live with the vestiges of choices made by primitive man based on primarily superstitious or religious attributions as to the impact of the stars and planets on our life or the dictates of holy text.

But what I don't understand is why a society with the technology to travel for generations in space etc would impose those irrational structures on their society, other than nostalgia.

 

[Ireth]

Absolutely. We live with the vestiges of choices made by primitive man based on primarily superstitious or religious attributions as to the impact of the stars and planets on our life or the dictates of holy text.

But what I don't understand is why a society with the technology to travel for generations in space etc would impose those irrational structures on their society, other than nostalgia.

Couldn't they have done it for the same reason we do? If their technology is so advanced, surely they've been around for a while, and in their less-advanced eras would naturally have defaulted to astronomy for the purpose of timekeeping.

 

[Russ]

Couldn't they have done it for the same reason we do? If their technology is so advanced, surely they've been around for a while, and in their less-advanced eras would naturally have defaulted to astronomy for the purpose of timekeeping.

I am having a little trouble following this.

We use the lengths we do for weeks and months out of tradition, or religious belief. But if these folks go to an another place and then decide to make the orbital periods of a hot jupiter a week, that choice seems virtually random. Or what if that moon is fast or slow, do they go with a 90 day month or a 5 day month? There is no rational reason to adopt those movements to structure your life around. If they maintain the week on religious grounds than it should still be seven days shouldn't it?

There is no doubt astronomy has value for timekeeping, in the concept primarily of the day or year. But not really for the week or month. These are really cultural affectations more than anything else.

The lunar month is a pain the in math, is defined different ways, and doesn't match our culturally asymetrical calendar. Discarding it is a fine idea.

The week, or month are much more tradition based or religion based, and I don't see how those concepts transport to a new planet so well or even effectively.

Think of it this way. Our math system is decimal, would it not be much easier and more functional to have say a ten day week? Or a month based on one tenth of a year?

If you have highly rational or scientific people who get a chance to build a calendar from scratch, it simply doesn't make sense that they would choose to follow outdated superstitious or religious religious structures to do so.

 

[TheKillerBs]

Absolutely. We live with the vestiges of choices made by primitive man based on primarily superstitious or religious attributions as to the impact of the stars and planets on our life or the dictates of holy text.

But what I don't understand is why a society with the technology to travel for generations in space etc would impose those irrational structures on their society, other than nostalgia.

Same reason we do. Force of habit and economics. It's a lot easier and cheaper to stick with what you've always done even if it doesn't make the most sense than it is to change to a more "logical" system.

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

What this discussion is missing is whether or not these time telling methods and planetary movements is whether or not they'll have an actual impact on the characters or plot. Because if not there is little need to map these planets out and create an overly complex time telling system.

 

[caters]

They would have impact, especially if a planet got broken apart or for some other reason, disappeared.

For example if the hot jupiter were to disappear, it would lose a lot of its mass and might get engulfed in a star. This would lead to the length of the week once again not known.

If the moon were to disappear, again a time period would not be known, this time the month.

And the unit of the month was based on our moon which completes an orbit every 29.5 days.

So yeah these planets are important to the humans. And it is not the humans themselves that are technologically advanced in all areas but rather the aliens that are transporting them. Sure the humans are technologically advanced in biology and chemistry but not so much in astronomy and definitely not in physics. Their overall lifestyle changes when they reach the planet with dinosaurs. It changes from technologically advanced on the generation ship to mostly stone age on the planet.

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

They would have impact, especially if a planet got broken apart or for some other reason, disappeared.

For example if the hot jupiter were to disappear, it would lose a lot of its mass and might get engulfed in a star. This would lead to the length of the week once again not known.

If the moon were to disappear, again a time period would not be known, this time the month.

And the unit of the month was based on our moon which completes an orbit every 29.5 days.

So yeah these planets are important to the humans. And it is not the humans themselves that are technologically advanced in all areas but rather the aliens that are transporting them. Sure the humans are technologically advanced in biology and chemistry but not so much in astronomy and definitely not in physics. Their overall lifestyle changes when they reach the planet with dinosaurs. It changes from technologically advanced on the generation ship to mostly stone age on the planet.

Which is all well and good. But does this affect a specific character in an immediate sense or does it affect the plot of the story in an immediate way? Or are you just building this solar system just for fun?

 

[caters]

It does affect the plot of the story if a planet disappears or if the moon disappears. The moon disappearing would have immediate affect on everyone. A planet disappearing would affect an astronomer immediately leading him to hypothesize why the planet disappeared.

Once he/she knows why the planet disappeared, it will affect everyone because now they can't use that planet for a certain time period and would have to wait until a supernova ejects a planet in just the right way that it starts orbiting the star or stars of the solar system I am building at just the right distance range(For example a gas giant being ejected from what used to be the frost line of a different solar system to a distance very close to the star or stars if the hot jupiter disappears).

 

[Ireth]

It does affect the plot of the story if a planet disappears or if the moon disappears. The moon disappearing would have immediate affect on everyone. A planet disappearing would affect an astronomer immediately leading him to hypothesize why the planet disappeared.

But the question is, DOES a planet or a moon disappear at any point in your story?

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

But the question is, DOES a planet or a moon disappear at any point in your story?

^ That. The question isn't an abstract one, whether a moon COULD affect a story. It is whether the destruction of a moon DOES affect the story.