When does 'sarcasm' become 'just being an ass' ?

[Naruzeldamaster]

I love me a good sassy character, provided they're well written. For the record, for both male and female characters. (Though good sarcasm hits different on a female character, no idea why)

But some characters, not so much. I've had a few characters who were otherwise good be 'ruined' when the author/writers (in movies / games) make them TOO sassy.

I feel like there's a fine line, and I like characters who walk that line (In a positive/well meaning way) but some of them take it 'a step too far'

 

[FifthView]

Sarcasm that comes from cleverness, insightfulness, and similar qualities can be quite attractive in a character. Add a measure of general humility, and it's even better.

The worst sarcasm comes from those who appear to value themselves too much. If narcissism is the root, it can be annoying if there's no hint of hidden depth. If the sass comes from weakness, bitterness, and general hatefulness, it can be annoying.

Sometimes writers use a character's penchant for sarcasm as a type of "killing the dog" maneuver to show the character is meant to be despised. Perhaps the character is one of the early antagonists or even the main villain. To me, this is a cheap way of showing a character's character; but on the other hand, this can be quite effective when introducing an early antagonist or for giving a general sense of a setting.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Sarcasm that comes from cleverness, insightfulness, and similar qualities can be quite attractive in a character. Add a measure of general humility, and it's even better.

This is a good thing to remember, I'll have to keep this in mind.

The worst sarcasm comes from those who appear to value themselves too much. If narcissism is the root, it can be annoying if there's no hint of hidden depth. If the sass comes from weakness, bitterness, and general hatefulness, it can be annoying.

I write sarcasm in my characters a lot, But I don't think I've written anyone like this unless they were a villain character.

My characters tend to be somewhat sassy (in a good way) and 'bounce off' of eachother at the drop of a hat. It doesn't matter how different they are, interests or otherwise. But somehow they seem to get along, begrudgingly or otherwise. Even the ones I intend to NOT get along at all, find a way to get along at some point. (If they're protagonists)

Sometimes writers use a character's penchant for sarcasm as a type of "killing the dog" maneuver to show the character is meant to be despised. Perhaps the character is one of the early antagonists or even the main villain. To me, this is a cheap way of showing a character's character; but on the other hand, this can be quite effective when introducing an early antagonist or for giving a general sense of a setting.

There's a guy in RWBY who fits the bill for this.
He's a fan favorite character who was meant to be a 'throw away' villain to begin with. But fans liked him so they kept bringing him back.

He's a smarmy asshole who is overconfident in his own abilities because he has tough minions. (Said minion is also a popular character) Bro is just oozing charm and swagger, but he's also a sarcastic dick. Dude puts the Joker from batman to shame when it comes to confidence.

He's not entirely competent himself, but he's kind of 'charming' in his bravery and idiocy. But his personality just....really makes you want to punch him. I think he's well done, despite the whole point being to make you wanna punch him. Possibly one of my favorite minor villains in the show.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

My parents were from New Jersey. I say this because their breed of sarcasm was pretty brutal. It's also difficult to translate into text, unless there are brows being quirked every other sentence. It's my default to sarcasm, and I rarely bring it out. It's very negative.

Which brings me to answer your actual question, and it can depend on a lot of factors. It's the comedy that never gets the laugh. How would you like the reader to respond to it? That's also a big factor to consider. Also, turns out we use sarcasm less than I thought.

~~~

She rolled her eyes. “Midir deprived two kings, two of his brothers, of their heirs, one by kidnapping and one by murder. He destabilized two faerie realms and now he’s building an army and opening a rift.” She paused, watching his face. “He’s planning to invade and take both realms for himself.”

Etienne furrowed his brows. “Why would he do that? He’s never been interested in having a kingdom before.”

Lana snorted. “Of course, he has. Where have you been?”

He gave her a wry look. “I’m not exactly welcome in the courts. Half-breed and all. How about you?”

“I don’t have that problem.”

“Oh, you’re not a half-breed?”

“Ooh, nasty case of sarcasm you have there. No, I mean I’m more welcome in the courts than you. And Midir has always wanted his own kingdom, which everybody in the courts knows, but he let his brothers talk him out of it in exchange for fostering their heirs.”

 

[dantheman93]

In life, I typically find sarcasm at the expense of another to be the a*hole type. Like, the kind of “playful” negging that at the end of the day is really just putting someone down disguised as humor or sarcasm. So I’d probably say the same for books, as well.
I do love a good banter - quick, snappy, back and forth. Which was an earlier comment that sarcasm comes more from wit and intelligence than it does from being a jerk.
Also agree that showing sarcasm can be difficult, a lot of it is in the facial expressions and delivery. But please, for the love of goodness, stay away from winking. Soooo many fantasy books just be having people endlessly winking to evoke that notion of sarcasm or banter. There’s gotta be a better way!!

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

In life, I typically find sarcasm at the expense of another to be the a*hole type. Like, the kind of “playful” negging that at the end of the day is really just putting someone down disguised as humor or sarcasm. So I’d probably say the same for books, as well.
I do love a good banter - quick, snappy, back and forth. Which was an earlier comment that sarcasm comes more from wit and intelligence than it does from being a jerk.
Also agree that showing sarcasm can be difficult, a lot of it is in the facial expressions and delivery. But please, for the love of goodness, stay away from winking. Soooo many fantasy books just be having people endlessly winking to evoke that notion of sarcasm or banter. There’s gotta be a better way!!

Is it really that bad of an epidemic? Now you've got me curious haha.
No worries though, my characters don't wink lol well, not an obnoxious amount of times anyway. Just like, the amount a regular person would.

The Female lead of Hound and Fox is just OOZING sarcasm all the time (Generally self deprecation but other kinds of sarcasm too.)

One instance is (while they're stuck in a jail cell together) after a brief conversation of her 'fishing' for the male leads ahem 'interests' she gives up and yells 'There's 4 billion humans on this stupid rock and I fall in love with the only one without a fetish!' in agony. lol The male lead explodes with laughter and responds with 'ooooh, why didn't you say so!' to tease her.

But I don't think I've had her wink an obnoxious amount of times. Same goes for the other sarcastic characters. A couple of them might make a gesture like 'did you get that audience' but I don't think I've had them wink as a way to say they'd just been sarcastic lol I'm finding myself having a problem writing them 'tilting their head' a lot when they're puzzled though...hmm.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

My parents were from New Jersey. I say this because their breed of sarcasm was pretty brutal. It's also difficult to translate into text, unless there are brows being quirked every other sentence. It's my default to sarcasm, and I rarely bring it out. It's very negative.

Which brings me to answer your actual question, and it can depend on a lot of factors. It's the comedy that never gets the laugh. How would you like the reader to respond to it? That's also a big factor to consider. Also, turns out we use sarcasm less than I thought.

I don't use sarcasm all that much, only for certain character archetypes where it seems to 'fit' ? But even then it only creeps out every once in a while.
Generally when one character is oblivious to something (see the above example) and the other isn't. Sometimes the character making the comment will have a realization that breaks the fourth wall a bit. I don't think I've found myself using the 'sarcasm used to hurt others' type. At least I try not to use it when writing the protagonists.

~~~

She rolled her eyes. “Midir deprived two kings, two of his brothers, of their heirs, one by kidnapping and one by murder. He destabilized two faerie realms and now he’s building an army and opening a rift.” She paused, watching his face. “He’s planning to invade and take both realms for himself.”

Etienne furrowed his brows. “Why would he do that? He’s never been interested in having a kingdom before.”

Lana snorted. “Of course, he has. Where have you been?”

He gave her a wry look. “I’m not exactly welcome in the courts. Half-breed and all. How about you?”

“I don’t have that problem.”

“Oh, you’re not a half-breed?”

“Ooh, nasty case of sarcasm you have there. No, I mean I’m more welcome in the courts than you. And Midir has always wanted his own kingdom, which everybody in the courts knows, but he let his brothers talk him out of it in exchange for fostering their heirs.”

I love this. These two must really be buddies if they can make wise cracks about their bloodline. Some of my characters make similar jokes.
One of them does it in self depreciation and another is more just being blunt about why she was exiled.

 

[The Dark One]

When does sarcasm become just being an arse?

When it's not funny.

 

[pmmg]

Oh Joy! A thread about sarcasm...

I dont think Sarcasm appears too much in my own works. A number of characters might be described as 'wry', but I dont think I put this in there much.

I think, with most things, these types of lines get crossed when the intention behind them is mostly one of selfishness, putting another down for the purpose of making oneself look better, and not one of loving and sharing. There is kind of an unwritten rule, there are things we are not meant to do, but sometimes...its funny. If its funny, then it gets a pass.

I do also suspect that the way things are perceived have a lot to do with the filters people wear. And many things get scorn because the current attitudes of the culture say they are bad or get a pass. I would call this mostly fickle, as those things change over time, but...in the wrong crowd, and the same type of humor may not be received as well.

I will also plead the fifth and go with what he says I find I agree with his assessment of usage for villains and narcissists.


AI must have come to MS, cause all my paragraphs are filling up with highlighted blue and red boxes. Go jump in a lake, AI. I can write without you.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Oh Joy! A thread about sarcasm...

Says he doesn't use sarcasm but uses it a bit in this comment lol

I dont think Sarcasm appears too much in my own works. A number of characters might be described as 'wry', but I dont think I put this in there much.

I think, with most things, these types of lines get crossed when the intention behind them is mostly one of selfishness, putting another down for the purpose of making oneself look better, and not one of loving and sharing. There is kind of an unwritten rule, there are things we are not meant to do, but sometimes...its funny. If its funny, then it gets a pass.

To be honest I try not to use it TOO much, usually for my more "gremlin" - like characters (Personality wise) and even then rarely.
I like that we both feel there's a line that shouldn't be crossed though. I've been trying to notice what feels 'too' sarcastic to me.

I do also suspect that the way things are perceived have a lot to do with the filters people wear. And many things get scorn because the current attitudes of the culture say they are bad or get a pass. I would call this mostly fickle, as those things change over time, but...in the wrong crowd, and the same type of humor may not be received as well.

I will also plead the fifth and go with what he says I find I agree with his assessment of usage for villains and narcissists.

I think using the hurtful kind for villains makes a lot of sense. Bad guys don't have the same moral filters that good guys do.
So the bad guys could be sarcastic like the good guys. But the good guys hear what they say and go 'wow, I mean you do you but wow'
Plenty of games and shows I've seen have shown a stark difference in the kind of sarcasm protagonists and antagonists use. I've been taking notes lately on what works and what doesn't. (Even the pokemon anime can be rough at times)

AI must have come to MS, cause all my paragraphs are filling up with highlighted blue and red boxes. Go jump in a lake, AI. I can write without you.

Might not even be AI, Microsoft Office / Open Office highlight stuff I write too. The most annoying one is writing so. Every dang time it wants me to put a comma there. I apriciate the shout for 'good' grammar software program, but not every instance of 'so' requires a comma.