A Quasi Diesel punk Science-Fantasy Sky World.

[Logos&Eidos]

The concept of the "Sky World" has been bouncing around in my mind since...early childhood. And I have made several attempts at building one but headaches from trying to puzzle out the logic and the intrusion of other world-concepts keep getting in the way.

Well this is my most recent attempt, It feels more cohereent than my others.
What I present here is a list of well...bullet-points about the world which is by no means exhaustive. This setting is as much of the things that I think are cool fit into one place.

• The world is essentially a gas-giant. It is a great gaseous sphere floating in the black abyss orbited by an Empyrean a well spring of energy and matter, and three moons. What sustains this world is the it's core or nucleus which is surrounded by a barrier that is impenetrable from the outside. Periodically the core will erupt launching new material into the atmosphere.
• The people of this world do not dwell on floating islands,no the live on great flower shaped leafless tress with bark that has the consistency of stone. Theses floating trees range size from a few across to thousands of miles. These trees stay a float through biogravitics, their self generated gravitational fields may explain how these trees trap a breathable atmosphere. On the pitch black undersides monstrous things nest and at night they fly or climb up to the canopy(maybe not the best term for the tops of the trees) to hunt;living near the edges was not safe in ancient times.
• For much of their history the peoples have had very little access to metal. They used natural materials and as their grasp of material science improved, created all manor of synthetic materials. By the time a means of economically distilling metal from the natural materials had been developed, the synthetic material were vastly superior.
• the ecology beyond the great floating trees(they need a better name) is positively alien, full of animals and plants adapted for a gaseous world. Resembling earth's deep sea life most closely.
• Climate and gravity very by altitude. There is a relatively small middle or mezo region with a human tolerable temperature range,gravity and atmospheric pressure. The higher one goes the less gravity there and the more extreme day and night temperatures get as one is moving closer to the sun and the abyss. The further down one goes the cold and darker things become.
• the world's atmosphere isn't breathable for the most part. it's primary component is a faint silvery plasma.
• Great storms occasionally brew up and consume entire regions. sometimes these storms last for years.
• The worlds seasons exist as a result of the Empyrean's output varying during the course of a year.
• There is a mercenary guild who member's enjoy a special legal status.
• science and technology with a few notable exceptions is about the level of early twentieth century earth. I have no logical explanation for why these bits of higher tech exist, they are simply part of the world.
• The current and extremely divergent humanoid race was created by the mysteriously vanished "elder race".
• This world has a twin with an inverse metaphysical structure, the other world was is chaos dominant where as this world is Order dominant. It is from the world of chaos that the "demons" come from
• The magic of this world is closer to psionics and Ki-powers than more traditional Wizardry.
• The story will center on a region called the Myriad(Myri-isle), because there are tens thousands of island-trees all with in a fairly close range of each other.
• Magic while reliable ,is scares enough that didn't become the driving force behind society.
• The World and it's chaos-dominant twin are fruit hanging from a branch of the great cosmic tree and there are many others.
• The current "peace" between the various nations is the result of shared struggle against during the Cambion War several generations ago. Cambions are the half-caste offspring of pure demons and the peoples.

Feedback,critique and questions are welcome and appreciated.

 

[WooHooMan]

I find the settings that work best seem to stick to a certain theme and roll with it.
I guess an obvious example: Middle-Earth. It's the world between pagan Norse/Celt myth and Christian British legend. That pretty much tells you all you need to know about the geography, cultures and what kind of creatures you're likely to encounter.
Another example: Lovecraft's mythos. Humanity exists in a bubble of ignorance where they can comfortably ignore the incomprehensible monsters that surround them.

I almost feel like there's too many seemingly disconnected elements in your setting. Or you didn't summarize it all in the best way.
For example, you kind of brush over the fact that the people aren't humans and live in a very not-Earth-like environment but they developed the concepts of government, nations, technology and guilds that are comparable to what we Earth-living humans have? I can't even tell if I'm overthinking this or not because I can't tell how in-depth or logical you're trying to make this.

Basically, I'm asking for a snappier summary.

 

[Logos&Eidos]

I find the settings that work best seem to stick to a certain theme and roll with it.
I guess an obvious example: Middle-Earth. It's the world between pagan Norse/Celt myth and Christian British legend. That pretty much tells you all you need to know about the geography, cultures and what kind of creatures you're likely to encounter.
Another example: Lovecraft's mythos. Humanity exists in a bubble of ignorance where they can comfortably ignore the incomprehensible monsters that surround them.

I almost feel like there's too many seemingly disconnected elements in your setting. Or you didn't summarize it all in the best way.
For example, you kind of brush over the fact that the people aren't humans and live in a very not-Earth-like environment but they developed the concepts of government, nations, technology and guilds that are comparable to what we Earth-living humans have? I can't even tell if I'm overthinking this or not because I can't tell how in-depth or logical you're trying to make this.

Basically, I'm asking for a snappier summary.

I was just throwing down bullet-points to declutter my head and I was waiting for somebody to comment so that I could go in depth.

X Meets Y is a fun, fast and easy way to summarize an idea or project. This setting is Iron Kingdoms x SkyGunner x Phantasy Star X Blazblue x Fullmetal Alchemist x Pacific Rim.

As I said in my first post the Sky World trope has been in my head since almost forever and I have been trying to build an internally-consistent world around it and other ideas that I think are cool.

The world and immediate cosmos are a "fruit" connected to the great cosmic tree, fruit and tree in universe are simple metaphors for cosmological concepts. If you could see the universe from outside, you would see a crystal sphere ,one of many, connected to a vast and branching crystalline filigree that pulsed with light.

The interior of the great sphere is closer to a gas-giant than a terrestrial planet, it is filled with mostly plasma and various gasses. At the highest altitudes,the welkin the "outer space" of the setting the Empyrean essentially a white hole pulses and completes a circuit around the great sphere once every twenty four hours. The cycling of the Empyrean's output creates seasons for a world that would other wises have none. Empyrean don't just release energy,they also generate matter in the form of particles. These particles after eons of binding together have formed a cloud of debris enshrouding the world, the three moons(Red,Silver,Gold) are the largest concentrations of matter;sometimes smaller concentrations of matter will fall from the welkin as meteors and this where the peoples initially got their metal from.

Now logical terrestrial life couldn't exist in a world like this and most of the life. Having evolved to live in a gaseous environment. Humanoids and recognizable animals do exist in the setting and are native to it not immigrants from a more familiar cosmos. The modern races are creations of the vanished Elder-folk and the Elder-folk evolved on an island-tree(they need a better name). One of the life forms on this world are a species of flower shaped pseudo-flora, a life form half way between plant and mineral. They grow by adsorbing energy and filtering vital material from the atmosphere they stay afloat by generating artificial gravity. They very greatly in size from a few feet across to thousands of miles. These island-trees are also for want of a better term set in their ways, once they find a preferred altitude they rarely change. These island trees also generate a force field around themselves at all times an extension of their gravity generation. these low level fields interestingly enough trap a breathable atmosphere around them. The true purpose of the force-field is as a defense mechanism against the tera-fauna occasionally rise from the depths and attempt to eat them.


The main consequence of living on the island-trees for the peoples were that civilization with exception of the occasional meteor had no access to metal,nor could they make ceramic. The science of polymers developed far faster than they did on earth. The peoples learned how to render down the flesh of the island trees for it's chemical bounty. By the time a practical method of extracting metallic elements had been developed,there polymers were superior. It goes without saying that flight has vital to civilization,it began with the taming of flying mega-fauna and ended with the development of gravitic hovercraft.


Only a small ring of the world called the mezo is suitable to humanoid life. the further up one goes the thinner atmosphere becomes and the more extreme temperature swings,you burn during the day and freeze at night. The further down down you go the colder and darker things become, atmospheric pressure and gravity steadily rise until they reach implosive levels at crush depth.



I'm not exactly sure how big the world should be I want that space opera feel without actually going into space. At the moment it's anywhere between the sizes of Jupiter and a Dyson-sphere.

 

[DanJames]

I'm kind of on the same page as WooHooMan, the bullet point summary is a bit messy so I'm not entirely sure what I'm reading, having said that, that wasn't what you wanted feedback on, so bare with me while I see if I can give you something worthwhile.

First of all, the gaseous body with the trees sprouting from it where people live atop is a great visual. I'm assuming the planet still has a structure down deep, but for the most part it isjust a deep layer of gaes and plasma surrounding it. It is a stellar visual, so you've visualised that part well. My one point to make there is don't forget about down below, I believe you have some real great potential for some species, similar to your humanoids, but also incredibly different, living deep below, that can just survive amongst the gases because of evolution.

With regards to what i saw you say about technologies, you've takent he wrong approach. if you can't explain it, scrap it. They live in tree tops with the consistency of stone, so this alone will send alarm bells to say 'how can they even have X technology or Y device?' Having said that, if you are determined to keep such things, then make sure you can justify their existence. Even knowing how they exist yourself will allow to create a more believable setting for your reader, especially since it's unfair to expect a reader to invest any amount of believe in a logical system for one thing if the writer didn't go to the lengths of creating a logical system for everythign (that could just be my personal opinion, though).

I'm not entirely sure why the peace, however tender the arrangement may be, is still on-going if the war seems to have ended several generations before. Is it expected to start up again? Are nations in fear that it might? Have you maybe just worded it in a way where it seems like it's end and that's how I've read it?

Are the demons of the same or similar species as the humanoids? If they're capable of breeding with them I'd assume so? If that's the case, then I'd make them a race, rather than just demons. If a demon breeds with a human, or humanoid, I'd expect it to be a big deal, however if it breeding to the extent of creatign anew race, then I'd say make the demons another life form. However, they could still have the properities of the demons you have imagined.

Magic, in any for, is always great - in my opinion anyway - however, I would be careful here. You are creating SO much that I feel adding to many different aspects will create a patchwork of different elements that may not marry well. That being said, Star Wars has the force, so it's obviously not unheard of for magic and high sci0fi to marry well. However, your world(s) that your building here seems to have enough fantastical elements to keep a reader engaged without adding much more to it.

I know I barely scratched the surface on your notes, but I've been working all day and I'm worried Im nto actually making sense right now, but all in all, I love the concept. keeping the image very original, and it's clear that a lot of thought has went into this. I think it needs to be a lot tighter though, simplfying certain ideas for this will go along way for you as my honest critque, and please post any and all amendents, I'm genuinely curious to see how this adapts over time.

 

[evolution_rex]

I think it's got a lot of interesting ideas, but it might be a bit too complex? There are lot of things that would need to be explained for even the most simplest of stories that take place in your world. Not that that's inherently bad, just something to point out.

 

[Logos&Eidos]

I'm kind of on the same page as WooHooMan, the bullet point summary is a bit messy so I'm not entirely sure what I'm reading, having said that, that wasn't what you wanted feedback on, so bare with me while I see if I can give you something worthwhile.

First of all, the gaseous body with the trees sprouting from it where people live atop is a great visual. I'm assuming the planet still has a structure down deep, but for the most part it is just a deep layer of gaes and plasma surrounding it. It is a stellar visual, so you've visualised that part well. My one point to make there is don't forget about down below, I believe you have some real great potential for some species, similar to your humanoids, but also incredibly different, living deep below, that can just survive amongst the gases because of evolution.

With regards to what i saw you say about technologies, you've takent he wrong approach. if you can't explain it, scrap it. They live in tree tops with the consistency of stone, so this alone will send alarm bells to say 'how can they even have X technology or Y device?' Having said that, if you are determined to keep such things, then make sure you can justify their existence. Even knowing how they exist yourself will allow to create a more believable setting for your reader, especially since it's unfair to expect a reader to invest any amount of believe in a logical system for one thing if the writer didn't go to the lengths of creating a logical system for everything (that could just be my personal opinion, though).

I'm not entirely sure why the peace, however tender the arrangement may be, is still on-going if the war seems to have ended several generations before. Is it expected to start up again? Are nations in fear that it might? Have you maybe just worded it in a way where it seems like it's end and that's how I've read it?

Are the demons of the same or similar species as the humanoids? If they're capable of breeding with them I'd assume so? If that's the case, then I'd make them a race, rather than just demons. If a demon breeds with a human, or humanoid, I'd expect it to be a big deal, however if it breeding to the extent of creatign anew race, then I'd say make the demons another life form. However, they could still have the properities of the demons you have imagined.

Magic, in any for, is always great - in my opinion anyway - however, I would be careful here. You are creating SO much that I feel adding to many different aspects will create a patchwork of different elements that may not marry well. That being said, Star Wars has the force, so it's obviously not unheard of for magic and high sci0fi to marry well. However, your world(s) that your building here seems to have enough fantastical elements to keep a reader engaged without adding much more to it.

I know I barely scratched the surface on your notes, but I've been working all day and I'm worried I'm into actually making sense right now, but all in all, I love the concept. keeping the image very original, and it's clear that a lot of thought has went into this. I think it needs to be a lot tighter though, simplfying certain ideas for this will go along way for you as my honest critque, and please post any and all amendents, I'm genuinely curious to see how this adapts over time.

The bullet-points were just me pouring ideas out I can sort them and expound upon them now.

The core of the world is surrounded by a shell of plasma and is the connection to the great cosmic tree. the core erupts periodically injecting new matter into the atmosphere. I had planned on putting the more exotic races near the bottom limits of the habitable zone; clades inspired by insects and deep sea life.

The tech that I couldn't quite see how make fit into the world are cybernetics and neuro-interfaces. Part of the world's visual aesthetic is dieselpunk, which is a weird/super-science version of the late 40s early 5os. Computer technology outside of rare pieces of "super-science" is supposed to primitive. So how does these people having cybernetics and thought controlled machines make any since? Poweredarmor and Mini-mecha are also supposed to be apart of this world,along with walker tanks. The material science to make such things feasible doesn't require any hand waving really;as a result of having very limited access to metal the peoples developed synthetic material to level not seen on earth.
Mecha and walker tanks make since because it's the skill of the pilot that keeps the up right and stable,wide spread usage of synthetic muscle makes building and repair less of hassle,because all a mechanic needs to do is switch out muscle-packs.


The peace is tense because well "empires are going to empire" the comradery brought about by a mutual threat(the campbion war) is starting ware off. Also peace times aren't a good back drop for a story,heros need conflicts to overcome.

The Demons are something else... ages during the world-conjunction demons crossed over from their world of chaos on a mission to collapse both it and the world of order into a single reality. The demons were eventually wiped out and the government of the peoples instituted a pogrom against those with demon blood. The cambions who could flee did, going beyond the known world and in some cases the habitable zone.


The magic actually makes since and It wasn't easy to do that. there are so many different portrayals of magic and I was pulling pieces from them that I liked. It is driven by manipulating aether and provides some universal benefits,overall somatic enhancements and an extrasensory ability based around reading ambient aether. The real magic of the system is in the Logos, everybody has an affinity for at least one woven into their essence. Through their affinities an Adept is able to cause their aether to take on the elements of or control things that fall with a Logos's purview. Only two things remain unsatisfactory/complete with this system summoning entities and the specific aspects of each Logos's purview.

Thankyou for your feedback and I will take what you said under consideration,

I think it's got a lot of interesting ideas, but it might be a bit too complex? There are lot of things that would need to be explained for even the most simplest of stories that take place in your world. Not that that's inherently bad, just something to point out.

I know that this is a lot to digest, I worry about how I'd explain it in book form. If I could draw I could just show what I see in my mind. Since I can't draw I'm going to have explain it and a truly adequate explain how require massive chunks of exposition.
The best approach that I've come across is exposite as I go and use character perspective to show the world through their eyes;I'm all hears for techniques on exposition and subtle world-building. As alien as the world looks you've seen before with is space opera...only outer space is just the uppermost sky and with floating tree island instead of planets.

 

[DanJames]

Tech in the material sense I can picture, that's fine. However take fallout for example. This is a verse were the transistor was a very late discovery. As a result the world doesn't have any microcomputers. All machine are big, bulky things, yet things like power armour can function because of the reliance and therefore advancements of nuclear fusion. All tech requires an energy source, so start with that. If you can answer how they can function, then everything else will just naturally fall into place.

 

[Logos&Eidos]

Tech in the material sense I can picture, that's fine. However take fallout for example. This is a verse were the transistor was a very late discovery. As a result the world doesn't have any microcomputers. All machine are big, bulky things, yet things like power armour can function because of the reliance and therefore advancements of nuclear fusion. All tech requires an energy source, so start with that. If you can answer how they can function, then everything else will just naturally fall into place.

There a couple of power sources in the setting.

1. Empyrean Crystals,they fall from the welkin and can be detonated for power. They are the highest energy density of any known natural substance.

2. as of right now i'm calling it amber it's a viscus golden liquid that s extracted from literal veins with in the island-trees.

3. is is Tesla and Thomas Henry Moray inspired Cosmic-dynamo that converts otherwise background energies into usable power.
while they have infinite energy,their actual power outputs are limited and current models are scale down poorly suffering a major loss of performance with the reduction in size. And they are far more expensive than burning amber.

4. there was a form of matter to energy-converter but that's lost technology.

 

[DanJames]

Okay, that's really good. The initial baseline for tech now functions better because you are applying a LHR l logic to the system. It's becoming easier to imagine these machines.

I think this is well on its way to something fantastic. With everything you've came up with just ask yourself 'how?' or 'why?'

If you can answer it why a pre-existing, applicable earthen logic or with one you create on your own then it's working. If not, ask yourself why you can't think of a logical explanation for it.

Asking yourself these should allow you to create more easily.

Ad with what you were saying about exposition, of course the easiest way to get away with it is having an outsider, if that's not a possibility then just explain in bits and pieces.

If you want to explain the energy sources and how they're harnessed or gathered, then have a character work in position where he would have to do this job, have the job robe explained to him by another (as they're a trainee and must learn), and by explaining little things you're building a larger picture.

I'm totally loving this though, thanked you for your last part because it's made me think of a few things in my own writing no that I may have left blank, haha.

 

[Logos&Eidos]

Why is there a mercenary guild in this setting?

It gives an in universes explanation for and logical place to "adventures". Your standard D&D adventuring party referred to by some as "murder-hobos" when you really think abut are mercenaries. A small group of highly dangerous individuals that resolve dangerous situations,explore dangerous areas,retrieving valuables often from dangerous areas,persons or organizations. The protection of clients their client's properties or persons and properties on the behalf of a client. In the past bands of such individuals were little better than criminals and sometimes actually were. The Heroine of the last Cambion War leveraged every favor owed and bit of political good will down to the smallest mote to get The Guild established. Bringing legitimacy and respectability to her profession. I haven't exactly thought out what the special legal status that members of the Freelancer(they need a better name)'s Guild enjoy however the gist of it is they are not prosecuted for acting like "murder-hobos" as long as their action are with in the lawful-bounds of a Lancer's current job.

Magic, is something that I've struggled with design wise for a long time. The setting has three and fourth that is largely unknown. Clerical or shamanic magic is tide to the gods and provided subtle benefits,good luck and a natural aptitude for all the skills that lay with in a god's preview,the ability to invest power into objects which would improve the skill of any that possessed it. The Inner path, was magic system that was the most mundane and"natural" any who devoted themselves to it gained conscious control of the bodily process and learned to push their minds and bodies further than otherwise possible.

The third form of magic which I'm currently calling Adeptery, had given me the most trouble out of all them and has been subject to multiple revision. The first problem was flavor, I wanted something that was at a half way point between psionics and sorcery, which was giant bundle of tropes and imagery that need to be sorted out; further complicated by the fact that I also wanted to incorporate elements of spirit-energy fueled superpowered fighting common to manga/anime. Ki and psi energy are pretty much the same power so they could be integrated, just left how to make psionics and sorcery flow into one. Another problem was elemental, while I love the trope of elemental magic it was entirely classical and symbological for the world that I was building. So I need to devise a set of elements that felt more metaphysical,abstract and almost scientific albeit the science of world were the supernatural is an unquestionable reality; I found those elements,Void,Dynamos,Radiance,Life,Spirit,Substance. The last problem with magic was that It was to well lose,there were not enough hard limits on what could and couldn't be done, I also didn't know what the new elements were supposed to do;and to a degree I'm still a little unsure.

Adeptery.
Adept is the proper term for people who have complete control of their aether( life-force and the basic building block of creation) ,either through training or birth. They can externalize their aether weaving it into chords, which are the basis of aether-fields complex patterns that mimic the properties of or manipulate elements(Logos) in the environment. The techniques for techniques for weaving specific aether-field are referred to as rotes. Every living being has an affinity for at least one Logos manifested upon the essence of their being. For Adepts these affinities control the types of chords that they can form,there are seven distinct chords for each Logos and twenty one subaltern-chords that universal. Affinities to a Logos are rarely complete and Adept are only able access/effect aspects of a logos.

Logos. Aspects.
Void: Hunger,Yearning,Emptiness
Dynamos: Kinetic,Vibrant,Fortis
Sprite: Thought,Emotion,Memory
Radiance: Fire(heat),Light,Lightning
Life: Heal,Augment,Consume/Parasite
Substance: Earth(Mineral),Flesh(animal),Wood(vegetable),Air(gaseous matter)

Summoning is a rarely used but powerfully ability that Adepts and on occasion mundanes possess them. Through ones dominant affinity they can manifest an Eidolon a living manifestation of a Logos. The Eidolon is a symbiont living with in the soul of the summoner and when first summoned are quite weak essentially a newborn. They take months if not years to develop depending on the strength of the host. An Eidolon can be called upon to manifest physically and sent out to it's host bidding,it can be awoken but not manifest to lend power to it's host, they can also be fused with transforming the host into a terrifying and mighty creature. Eidolon also carry a grave danger, they are beings with wills of their own and if their is enough of a gap in strength between it and the host may attempt to take control or permanently fuses with.