About ambiguous comments

[iramesoj]

Hello mates:

Before talking about this subject, I want to make it clear that this concern I have is not coming from this forum, but from other websites. Without further ado, I will expose the topic:

As a newbie writer who uses the internet, there is a topic that worries me a lot, which are ambiguous comments about literary texts, something that proliferates on writer's websites. I refer to comments like these:

Example 1: Very good story, I loved it.
Example 2: The beggining hooks, I hope continuation
Example 3: An attractive story, enjoyable and well written, I liked it. Greetings

These comments are suspected of not having read the text, since they do not mention anything about it, and may be written only to receive visits to their own texts or another selfish gain. Sometimes, if they are asked things to be more concrete, they retain so much ambiguity that one has a reasonable suspicion that they have not read the text and are trying to conceal themselves. Example of this:

Commentator: An attractive story, enjoyable and well written, I liked it. Greetings
Author: why is it attractive and enjoyable? Why did you like it?
Commentator: It is attractive because it is written with great sensitivity, resulting in a beautiful story, and enjoyable because it is pleasant to read and does not get tedious.

Unfortunately, this, together with the "likes" and "follows", are some of the problems of websites of writers who share their texts. I think it should be fought, but with all possible consideration, because, in fact, we have no evidence about noone of people who comment like this do not read the texts (although in some particular cases we can have such evidence...I have a funny anecdote about that). And really, it is possible that there are people who read the text and only comment “very good, I liked it” because they are spared with words/in a hurry/whatever (we should let the benefit of the doubt, at least at first).

What strategies occur to me to start to fight against this problem? My ideas are the following:

Idea 1. When we receive a comment like this, we must follow the following protocol:

1. Ask the person who wrote the comment what they liked about the text (such comments are always “positive”). If he/she have said something more concrete than "very good, I liked it", but still ambiguous, ask him/her specifically (for example, if he/she says that the story is attractive, ask him/her about what he/she found attractive).
2.If the answer remains ambiguous (very probable), it is time to let him/her see that the ambiguity of his message causes suspicion. This matter is very delicate, since the person may be offended/disturbed. That is why we must point out the following points:
A) That you are not accusing him, because every person is innocent until proven otherwise.
B) That the ambiguity of his/her comment does not show that he/she have not read the text, but there are reasons for a reasonable doubt.
C) That such doubt will be dispelled if he/she makes a more concrete and less vague comment.
D) That the distrust comes from previous experiences in which it is stated that they have made similar comments without reading the text.

Despite all that diplomacy, I think it is very likely to bother, but it is a sensitive issue and I do not think it can be said softer than as I put it. The only way not to bother is to not say anything against that kind of comments, which is negative because then, they will continue to proliferate.

Anyway, this is a personal opinion of mine, based in my own experiences. I have surfed in a bunch of virtual communities of writers (all of them in spanish, this is the second time I write in an english site) and I have lived this kind of experiences.

Well, my questions to you:

1. Are ambigous comments frequently posted in non-spanish writting sites?
2. Do you agree with my proposed strategies to fight against them?

Best regards.

 

[skip.knox]

1. Yes
2. It doesn't bother me so I don't think much about fighting against them.

Let me explain. Comments in forums I can just ignore. No big deal. This sort of ambiguous statement also appears in reviews, though. That does annoy me a touch, but I think I know the source: book review services. You know the kind--you submit your book and they distribute it to their mailing list of people who will review your book. This does produce some reviews, which is great. But I notice a distinct subset of those reviews that are exactly what the OP describes. Vague, intedeterminate statements that could apply to most any book, and usually no more than a few sentences. This is done by people who (I suspect) never even read the book, but who post the reviews because if they don't, they aren't retained by the service and they don't get free books.

It's a minority of the reviews, so I don't let this bother me more than a few seconds. Anyone looking through my reviews will pay them no more attention than they have earned.

 

[iramesoj]

Thanks for your reply.

I think that kind of comments in writer's websites (not only forums, but also social networks like wattpad) are damaging because it's a try to cheat writers to reach a selfish gain like visits to their own blogs/profiles/threads/whatever.

I understand that kind of persons exists and will always do. However, I am a bit worried since I have visited several writting communities in that amiguous comments, likes and follows are more than 90% of the activity.

I think that kind of sites should be a tool for improve... but they aren't since constructive comments are so scarce.

 

[Kasper Hviid]

Very good thread, I loved it.


... seriously though, sometimes I'm in a headspace where I'm just not able to communicate. Or I simply don't have the time. Or someone else has already said whatever I was going to say. Sometimes, people just genuinely think your story is good, but can't give you anything more than that.

So I think there can be totally legitimate reasons for it. But yes: Most likely, people haven't read the story. With social media, you're not expected to spend half an hour reading a static text. But, you are expected to give positive validation. So this rather shady behavior fits the social media netiquette. The problem is that social media is inherently shallow; you have to reply instantly, and tomorrow, it's gone anyways. So we naturally won't feel much responsibility for what we say.

Over at Reddit, I once asked another guy why he downvoted my post. He flatly refused to elaborate and seemed offended that I'd asked. Of course, I knew that I was breaking social norms; he wasn't supposed to be held responsible for his own opinions. Likewise, the ambiguous comment is a sort of upvote, and the person upvoting is not expected to be held responsible.

The real question is, is this a problem here? My guess is that it's not, but that's solely based on my general feel of this place. I haven't been around long enough to know.

 

[iramesoj]

Thanks for your reply, Kasper.

sometimes I'm in a headspace where I'm just not able to communicate. Or I simply don't have the time. Or someone else has already said whatever I was going to say. Sometimes, people just genuinely think your story is good, but can't give you anything more than that.

I know sometimes that kind of comments could be honest, but as you have already said, most likely, people haven't read the story.

The real question is, is this a problem here?

If "here" is Mythic Scribes, I haven't observed that behaviour here, since I have just arrived. However, I didn't ask that question referring to this forum only, but non-spanish writting sites in general terms. I asked that because I have visited a bunch of writer's sites in spanish, and I have found a pair of good forums (one of them missing) that helped me to improve. However, the writter's social networks that I have found are full of that behaviours. I supossed that members of this forum have surfed in a bunch of writting sites in english or other languages different to spanish, and I wanted to know their opinions of that matter.

 

[skip.knox]

Glad you mentioned social media. I've noticed the same--comments in FB are more frequently empty and vague. I don't view it as an attempt to drive traffic because few of such posts have links. Rather, I think social media (looking at you, FB) are more likely to have inexperienced readers, inexperienced writers, and inexperienced editors (commentators). Moreover, social media tends to encourage fleeting thoughts, as it were. It's more conversational, where posts reflect little thought.

I've always preferred forums. FB is non-threaded. It's like trying to have a conversation at a party, with dozens of conversations happening all at once, each spilling into the other. The threaded nature of forums are more like a few friends at a table in a pub. If you look, for example, at the average word count of FB posts versus forum posts, you'll see a big difference (I'm guessing).

In short, if it's thoughtful interaction you want, go to writing forums. You'll still get a big range of responses, but in general they'll be of higher quality.

Edit: Also, the mods are usually better.

 

[iramesoj]

When I mentioned social media, I wasn’t referring about Facebook or other generalist social media (I don’t use FB, Twitter or instagram). I am talking about social networks for writters (some of them are only-in-spanish communities), like Wattpad, sttorybox, Falsaria, cafedeescritores or megustaescribir. I have been an active member of some of that sites and I thought it was a waste of time due to aproximately 90% of the activity was giving likes, follows and ambiguous comments.

I agree with you about I prefer forums than social media.

 

[oenanthe]

you cannot control other people's reactions.
if you're not getting the feedback you want, maybe you're posting your work in the wrong place. if you want a detailed critique of your work and you put it up in a space that just doesn't *do* that, you're bound to be disappointed.

have you considered that you should be looking for a website whose purpose is to critique writing, like scribophile or Critique Circle?

 

[iramesoj]

you cannot control other people's reactions.

I am not a mind controller, so I can’t. But I haven’t posted this to control other, but express my opinion and read yours. However, I thing I can influence with my words even I can’t control reactions.

if you're not getting the feedback you want, maybe you're posting your work in the wrong place.

The problem is there are a bunch of wrong places for any of newbie writters who wish to learn and improve (at least if we talk about spanish sites)

if you want a detailed critique of your work and you put it up in a space that just doesn't *do* that, you're bound to be disappointed.

I like detailed critiques of my work (of course!) but I conform myself with honest comments that show the comentarist read the text. For example, let’s take this extract:

When the sunlight began to hide, Amara came out of her hut with the small bag where she kept her dinner, a small bowl and two flints, and began to walk towards the river hurriedly. Suddenly, she felt a thick branch split in her head, and he collapsed full of pain. She clenched her teeth and tried to move, but her head hurt so much that it was hard for her to perform any action.

—Even you can be caught off guard, Amara. Thanks for the gift, I will eat it in your honor!

That voice was unmistakable, and more with that mocking tone: she was Nasha. She could not consent that, precisely, she stole his food. After his thief took her rabbit and took several steps away from her, Amara got up. She had a hard time standing up because of the pain, but she ran after his enemy, who, hearing the footsteps, was dumbfounded: she didn't think she could show any vigor after that blow. When she turned bowled over, she was punched in her face.

—Give me back my food!

Nasha was the only woman in the tribe who might be able to rival Amara in strenght, especially now that she was at a disadvantage due to the severe pain in her head. However, she could not take advantage of this advantage because she was paralyzed by surprise and fear. Amara managed to throw her to the ground by pushing and dropping her by putting her right leg beindh her rival's feet, and having done this, she took a thick branch of the ground and broke it on her head, knocking her out. Once this was done, she finally fell unconscious on the chest of his rival, who was lying on the ground. It had taken a long time not to collapse before, but her pride had kept her with strenght.

Comments like these are not detailed, but show us the commentarist has read the text:

1.“you wrote ‘behind’ in a bad way, and put “chest of his rival” instead of “chest of her rival”. Both are female so you should put ‘her’.”

2.”I don’t like Amara. She is a Mary sue, because she can knock out a bigger woman even having an huge headache due to the blow she received.”

3.”I totally love Amara. She is a strong woman that not let others to abuse of her. I love how she defeats Nasha even having received that blow before”


If someone comment like in the example, I think he/she did a good work.

have you considered that you should be looking for a website whose purpose is to critique writing, like scribophile or Critique Circle?

I didn’t know that sites but I guess is a wrong place for me since I write my novels in spanish. Thanks a lot anyway.