Beowulf: what’s your opinion?

[pmmg]

It’s set in Sweden and Denmark, but is an Anglo Saxon text, and uses Anglo Saxon conventions of storytelling, so far as I’ve researched - I don’t claim to be an expert here but as I said above, from what I understand, there were many earlier migrants from these lands to the British Isles, long before what we refer to as the Viking Age. There’s no old Norse in the poem. Tolkien was a professor of Anglo Saxon at Oxford and worked on Beowulf for a long time.

Okay, I would assume it was either brought over by contact, or someone went there, wrote it down and brought it back. Good think too...now I only have to worry about Ogre's in one part of the world.

 

[Finchbearer]

Okay, I would assume it was either brought over by contact, or someone went there, wrote it down and brought it back. Good think too...now I only have to worry about Ogre's in one part of the world.

We don’t know who created it do we so, how do we know it was ever written down? In those times it is logical to me that people had better memorisation for stories, for the purposes of telling them to the next generation. There are also other things that make me question, such as the contents of the poem are very much Anglo Saxon, so was the story changed at an earlier point to meet other conventions, or was it a more shared culture.

 

[pmmg]

Well...It must be written down... Don't we know about it from a written source?

I think it is likely it was spoken long before it was written, given the traditions of its places of origin.

 

[Finchbearer]

There’s another theory that it was written / created in the court of King Cnut as propaganda for an idealistic view of the Anglo Saxon / Danish monarch. Although Beowulf is far from an ideal.

 

[pmmg]

I'm not sure what that changes about it. There is apparently only one source for it. The Nowell Codex.

If King Cnut commissioned it, I suppose that would suggest it is not from a long oral tradition, but...its still a work many people look at as an early work of fantasy fiction.

I believe I have said so before, but I find it a disjointed tale. If not for its being an early one, I'd probably not give it a lot of weight.

 

[Jackarandajam]

Love Beowulf.

Also enjoyed Grendel  by John Gardner, a modern telling from the perspective of a miserably philisophical Grendel.

Also, though I love Peter Ustinov I cannot recommend the Australian cartoon of the latter, Grendel Grendel Grendel, made at some point during the golden age of that particular animation that makes me nauseous.

 

[MasterofRevels]

Out of curiosity, what do you love about it? Thanks for the insights.

Ooh, where to begin? I had a period of time when I was younger where I got really into the Anglo-Saxons and Vikings, and Beowulf was one of the books that opened that period of history up for me. There are so many things I love about it. The Germanic warrior ethos with its emphasis on boasting and heroic deeds The way civilization seems so precarious and fragile surrounded by monsters lurking in the shadows. The bleak, fatalistic worldview that's a combination of Christianity and Germanic paganism. The way the poem comments on the cycle of violence, where you think ripping off Grendel's arm is going to be the end of the story, but violence just leads on to more violence.

There's honestly so much I could say about this poem. I could probably gush about it for ages.

 

[MasterofRevels]

It’s set in Sweden and Denmark, but is an Anglo Saxon text, and uses Anglo Saxon conventions of storytelling, so far as I’ve researched - I don’t claim to be an expert here but as I said above, from what I understand, there were many earlier migrants from these lands to the British Isles, long before what we refer to as the Viking Age. There’s no old Norse in the poem. Tolkien was a professor of Anglo Saxon at Oxford and worked on Beowulf for a long time.

Yeah, the people we now refer to as the "Anglo-Saxons" were essentially migrants/invaders from the lands described in Beowulf. They came over in the fifth century and then were Christianized starting in 597 AD, but there's a long period of history in which aspects of Christianity and paganism exist side by side. A lot of scholars read Beowulf as hearkening back to that pagan past even if it was written down during a Christian era. The same thing is true of Old Norse myth. The Norse/Icelanders didn't start writing their mythology down until after they'd become Christian so you get this interesting syncretistic attitude coming through in the sagas.

Also enjoyed Grendel  by John Gardner, a modern telling from the perspective of a miserably philisophical Grendel.

I second this! Grendel adds such an interesting angle to the story.

 

[Finchbearer]

Ooh, where to begin? I had a period of time when I was younger where I got really into the Anglo-Saxons and Vikings, and Beowulf was one of the books that opened that period of history up for me. There are so many things I love about it. The Germanic warrior ethos with its emphasis on boasting and heroic deeds The way civilization seems so precarious and fragile surrounded by monsters lurking in the shadows. The bleak, fatalistic worldview that's a combination of Christianity and Germanic paganism. The way the poem comments on the cycle of violence, where you think ripping off Grendel's arm is going to be the end of the story, but violence just leads on to more violence.

You put it far better than I can, and heartily agree.

 

[Mad Swede]

Yeah, the people we now refer to as the "Anglo-Saxons" were essentially migrants/invaders from the lands described in Beowulf. They came over in the fifth century and then were Christianized starting in 597 AD, but there's a long period of history in which aspects of Christianity and paganism exist side by side. A lot of scholars read Beowulf as hearkening back to that pagan past even if it was written down during a Christian era. The same thing is true of Old Norse myth. The Norse/Icelanders didn't start writing their mythology down until after they'd become Christian so you get this interesting syncretistic attitude coming through in the sagas.

Only in part. The Angles came from what is now the southern half of Jutland and the Saxons from the area around the Elbe estuary. The first part of Beowulf is set in Denmark, the second part in southern Sweden. Beowulf refers to raids against the Franks in northern Friesa in which a Danish king named Hygelac (or Chlochilaicus in Gregory of Tours chronicles) is killed, which is what makes it possible set an earliest date for the creation (or first telling) of this version the story. Hygelac was killed in 516AD, so the version of the story on which the written copy we have now is based can't be any earlier than that.

Most Swedish historians (including my mother) regard Beowulf as a Christian work, at least in the written form that has survived. But, as my mother also says, that doesn't mean the original version was Christian or even Anglo-Saxon in origin. She bases that opinion on the fact that Beowulf is written in alliterative verse (stavrim, as we say in Swedish) similar to that used for some of the Eddas. My mother also says that it is possible that Beowulf as we now know it is the result of combining several shorter stories into one.

 

[Finchbearer]

How popular is Beowulf in Sweden and Denmark?

 

[Mad Swede]

How popular is Beowulf in Sweden and Denmark?

It isn't as well known as it is in the UK. For historians like my mother it is one of the only surviving stories from that period which mention Denmark and Sweden in any detail, which makes it very important from an historical, literary and linguistic point of view.

 

[MasterofRevels]

Only in part. The Angles came from what is now the southern half of Jutland and the Saxons from the area around the Elbe estuary. The first part of Beowulf is set in Denmark, the second part in southern Sweden. Beowulf refers to raids against the Franks in northern Friesa in which a Danish king named Hygelac (or Chlochilaicus in Gregory of Tours chronicles) is killed, which is what makes it possible set an earliest date for the creation (or first telling) of this version the story. Hygelac was killed in 516AD, so the version of the story on which the written copy we have now is based can't be any earlier than that.

Most Swedish historians (including my mother) regard Beowulf as a Christian work, at least in the written form that has survived. But, as my mother also says, that doesn't mean the original version was Christian or even Anglo-Saxon in origin. She bases that opinion on the fact that Beowulf is written in alliterative verse (stavrim, as we say in Swedish) similar to that used for some of the Eddas. My mother also says that it is possible that Beowulf as we now know it is the result of combining several shorter stories into one.

Thanks for adding that clarification. I was speaking generally about the Germanic origins of the Anglo-Saxons, but your reply is much more precise.

I do like the theory that Beowulf began in the pre-Christian ancestral homelands of the Anglo-Saxons, was brought over with them, and underwent revision as they became Christian. It's not my area of expertise, so I don't know all the evidence for or against that idea, but it is compelling based on the little I've read.

 

[JBCrowson]

The BBC did an audio version from the Seamus Heaney translation. It was mesmeric to listen to. It might have been Heaney reading it.

The BBC radio play of TLotR was beyond phenomenal. They did it in 26 half hour episodes.

 

[CupofJoe]

The BBC radio play of TLotR was beyond phenomenal. They did it in 26 half hour episodes.

I have it on cassette and CD!
Someone has even made a mega-mix mp3 splitting the 26 episodes into the three books. Great for listening to on a long train journey