Book and Chapter Length Help?

[Mindfire]

So, right now, my chapters are about 1300-1400 words on average. My longest chapter so far is 2700 words and my shortest is around 900. So far I'm seven chapters in with a projected length of 35 chapters, though it will likely be longer because I plan to insert some chapters that weren't in my original outline. Disregarding those, with my 1400 word average, projected first draft length is around 49,000 words. With the new chapters, it might get to 56,000. Maybe.

Is that too short? Are my chapters too short? I get this feeling like I'm doing something wrong because it ought to be longer. (Isn't 90,000 words the average for a fantasy novel?) My writing style does tend to be pretty straightforward. Maybe I'm not embellishing enough or giving too few details. Thoughts?

 

[MadMadys]

I say it sounds like enough but it really depends on what you do with those 56K words. I mean, Part 1 of my novel (of 6 parts total) is a definitely too long 97,000.

You should never feel like you have to make a story longer just because you think it should be. Anything you add will likely just be empty filler that takes up nothing more than space and a higher word count. Word count has nothing to do with the quality of a story (see: Hemingway) because if the story is good with what you have than why lengthen it?

My advice would be don't worry about word count in the least. At least when it comes to the story being too short. Too long on the other hand... ug.

 

[Corysaurus]

I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't have them that short. Mine are usually between 2000-4000 words. Long enough to feel like the reader has gotten over a bump in the story, and not too short. I sort of base this on the way I have felt when reading fiction, and when I pass through chapters. You might have different feelings, so just go with what you're comfortable with. Chapter lengths are a bit arbitrary.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

Although I agree that it depends on your story, if it were me I'd feel like I'm missing some opportunities for greater story depth if my chapters were that short. I'm guessing that my chapters average around 5k with the shortest being about 2500 and the longest 8k.

Lengths in the 50k range are usually considered novellas (I think).

My advice would be to continue as you are until you complete the first draft. Then, when you start the revision process, make the first path a with focus on story development & content. Look for places to add description of setting, or where a new character may add another twist or subplot. Only add these sorts of details if they add to the overall story but there are bound to be instances where additional material will add texture and realism to your tale.

In my writing, my first revision always focuses on setting description. I do this because I know I tend to employ minimalist description on setting (typically). On the second pass, I look for ways to enhance characterization and really differentiate one character from another (through things like habits or dialogue... Things they say... The way they speak, etc.). Third is a content edit which for me usually involves more cutting than addition. During all 3 edits, I'm looking at grammar, clarity, technique, pacing, and ways to write better.

Hope that helps....

 

[wordwalker]

Talking to various agents, I've heard that the book standards for fantasy are:

100,000 - 115,000 is an excellent range. (Keeping it to say 105K shows that you can whittle your work down.) Outside of that, I would say 90K-100K is most likely all right, and 115-124K is probably all right, too. That said, try to keep it in the ideal range.
Below 70,000: Too short
70,000 - 79,999: Might be too short; probably all right
80,000 - 89,999: Totally cool
90,000 - 99,999: Generally safe
100,000 - 109,999: Might be too long for other genres; probably all right

For chapters... one figure I've heard is that readers average reading 7500-15,000 words in a sitting. I think that means anything that length or shorter is good for a chapter; I've read styles that had 2000, 1000, even 500-word chapters, and they were great for moving separate events along fast or even showing that a long scene might go 20,000 and you just don't know until you see the chapter it actually does end in. (But I still think my own 5000-worders are good portions to get a reader into a second or third helping.)

 

[Penpilot]

My writing style does tend to be pretty straightforward. Maybe I'm not embellishing enough or giving too few details. Thoughts?

I agree with T.A.S. Finish it, then figure out if things are too short. I aim for around 2500 words per chapter. Although I do have chapters that are as short as 1000 words and as long as 4000 words. Any longer and I look to see if I can split it.

As for your writing being sparse, I tend to write sparse in the first drafts too. My second draft is where I bloat things up. I explore each scene, asking myself what's this scene getting at? Where's the emotional resonance and what does it all mean to the overall story? Once I figure that out usually the scene grows anywhere from a few words to possibly doubling in length. Doing this also reveals where I need to adds scenes. The third draft is where I trim and refine. Usually the word count stays roughly static here. Anything I take out usually gets replaced with stuff that's more meaningful.

 

[ThinkerX]

Some of the sites I was looking at on 'Duotrope' put novella's at about 15,000 - 40,000 words, with anything over that being considered a novel.

A few decades ago, there were a lot of short novels - 150 pages give or take. I suspect it had to do with painfully typing up each draft on paper.

 

[PaulineMRoss]

Daniel Abraham reckons about 3,000 words is his comfort zone for chapter length. As a reader, I would say it doesn't matter much. Shorter chapters tend to make things feels faster and pacier, and longer chapters can feel slower, depending on how they're written (that draggy 'will this chapter never end?' feeling). But go with the flow - the story will dictate the shape of each chapter.

As an aside, the length of the whole book is an issue if you intend to submit to mainstream publishers, but self-publishers can make their own choices on that.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Mindfire, it looks like we're in about the same boat. My shortest chapter is about 800 words, and my longest just came in at about 4k. I started with shorter chapters, but I am finding as I get deeper into the project that my chapters are actually getting longer and longer. So, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Chances are you're underestimating your final word count, and 7 chapters in is no time to fuss over word count. New scenerios will occur to you as you write and you'll find yourself adding in new scenes (you notice you're already doing just that ). Just write, and see where you end up!

 

[Grand Lord BungleFic]

There is something I still don't understand about book length. I keep hearing that much more than 100,000 words is too long. Yet I've tried counting the number of words on a page for some of my favorite fantasy novels and then multiplying the result by the number of pages. Using this approach, it seems that many are over 200,000 words. I think all (or nearly all) of the Sword of Truth novels are over 200,000 words. I don't know about the Eragon series, but I suspect they are as well.

Am I missing something somewhere?

I guess I worry about the issue because I'm in my 2nd revision now and my book is 181,000 words (based on the 'word count' feature of Microsoft Word). I can't even imagine how I would cut the story down to 100,000 without gutting important things.

 

[SeverinR]

I thought chapter lengths were whatever they needed to be to tell the scene.

Total word count does matter, but if the 90000 words fit in 3 or 100 chapters what does it matter?

 

[BWFoster78]

There is something I still don't understand about book length. I keep hearing that much more than 100,000 words is too long. Yet I've tried counting the number of words on a page for some of my favorite fantasy novels and then multiplying the result by the number of pages. Using this approach, it seems that many are over 200,000 words. I think all (or nearly all) of the Sword of Truth novels are over 200,000 words. I don't know about the Eragon series, but I suspect they are as well.

Am I missing something somewhere?

I guess I worry about the issue because I'm in my 2nd revision now and my book is 181,000 words (based on the 'word count' feature of Microsoft Word). I can't even imagine how I would cut the story down to 100,000 without gutting important things.

When you're hearing that 100k is too long, are they discussing fantasy in particular?

I've also read that, for most genres, 100k is too long. For fantasy, especially epic fantasy, the standard is different.

 

[BWFoster78]

Regarding chapters getting longer as you go, I've read contrary advice. Long chapters slow pacing. You want slower pacing at the start of the book, and, overall, you want to build to a climax. The advice I read is to make chapters, in general, shorter as you get near the end.

Just a thought.

 

[Mindfire]

Regarding chapters getting longer as you go, I've read contrary advice. Long chapters slow pacing. You want slower pacing at the start of the book, and, overall, you want to build to a climax. The advice I read is to make chapters, in general, shorter as you get near the end.

Just a thought.

Yeah, but there's not all that much to talk about at the beginning, so I end up making the chapters shorter so I can just get on with it. I also try to avoid long stretches of narration or people talking for fear that it'll look/sound like an infodump. :/

 

[BWFoster78]

So, right now, my chapters are about 1300-1400 words on average. My longest chapter so far is 2700 words and my shortest is around 900. So far I'm seven chapters in with a projected length of 35 chapters, though it will likely be longer because I plan to insert some chapters that weren't in my original outline. Disregarding those, with my 1400 word average, projected first draft length is around 49,000 words. With the new chapters, it might get to 56,000. Maybe.

Is that too short? Are my chapters too short? I get this feeling like I'm doing something wrong because it ought to be longer. (Isn't 90,000 words the average for a fantasy novel?) My writing style does tend to be pretty straightforward. Maybe I'm not embellishing enough or giving too few details. Thoughts?

I think that, typically, the genre requires longer books.

Are you positive you're putting the necessary character development and world building into the work? Maybe make the plot more complex. Add subplots.

I think a novel absolutely can work at 50k. If you were writing scifi action or a thriller, I'd say you were right on course. For fantasy...

Not saying it can't work, just that readers of a genre tend to have certain expectations. Thwart those expectations only with careful consideration.

 

[BWFoster78]

Yeah, but there's not all that much to talk about at the beginning, so I end up making the chapters shorter so I can just get on with it.

But that's where the character development and world building go. The end is all about the plot threads coming together and being resolved.

It kinda sounds like your book might be too focused on plot (though this is wildly speculative conjecture based on absolutely nothing concrete).

 

[wordwalker]

There is something I still don't understand about book length. I keep hearing that much more than 100,000 words is too long. Yet I've tried counting the number of words on a page for some of my favorite fantasy novels and then multiplying the result by the number of pages. Using this approach, it seems that many are over 200,000 words. I think all (or nearly all) of the Sword of Truth novels are over 200,000 words. I don't know about the Eragon series, but I suspect they are as well.

I think the difference is that these 100K-ish estimates are agents' advice for us mere mortals, people trying to build our careers. The 200K+ epics work better once you are Terry Goodkind, Robert Jordan, or the like. Of course all of those mega-authors had to start somewhere, and I don't know how many of them had been publishing shorts and smaller novels for years and how many just sent the first epic to an agent wrapped in a lot of luck and sheer persistence, but...

(Edited in: and, non-fantasy does tend to have tighter standards, more in the 80-100K range, since they aren't as much about worldbuilding. My first post about this used the figures for fantasy.)

Then again, thinking about this, self-publishing may make those tighter standards obsolete. If you want to build your career on 181,000-word novels, self-publishing would mean you wouldn't have to compete with more modest works for publisher slots, you just go straight to (like published authors have to do anyway) teaching readers to give you a try.

 

[Mindfire]

But that's where the character development and world building go. The end is all about the plot threads coming together and being resolved.

It kinda sounds like your book might be too focused on plot (though this is wildly speculative conjecture based on absolutely nothing concrete).

Yeah, probably the greatest flaw in my writing is my impatience. Everything must be in service to the almighty plot.

 

[Ireth]

There is something I still don't understand about book length. I keep hearing that much more than 100,000 words is too long. Yet I've tried counting the number of words on a page for some of my favorite fantasy novels and then multiplying the result by the number of pages. Using this approach, it seems that many are over 200,000 words. I think all (or nearly all) of the Sword of Truth novels are over 200,000 words. I don't know about the Eragon series, but I suspect they are as well.

I believe it has to do with manuscript format. The standard seems to be double-spaced, 12-point Times New Roman or Courier New font, with 1-inch margins all around and a half-inch indent starting each paragraph. That fits an average of 250-300 words (depending on which font you use) on each page, and that is how the word counting is done. Things get messed with when the novel is actually published and the line spacing, page sizes etc. are changed, so trying it with published books doesn't work.

 

[brokethepoint]

I found this interesting.

250 words per page is generally considered to be standard. This
standard was set in earlier times, when most manuscripts were prepared
on typewriters with fixed pitch (monospace) fonts. Even though times
have changed, and many more fonts and text options are now available
to the writer, the old guideline of 250 words per page is still the
norm.

WHITE SPACE. Manuscripts are counted by page rather than computer word
count because authors write with varying amounts of 'white space'...
It's possible a page with a good deal of narrative might contain 300+
words, while a page with lots of short dialogue might be not more than
200. Therefore, the editor has to think in terms of number of pages,
not the number of words."

"Word count: based on 25 lines per page in Courier New 12 pt. averages
approximately 250 words per page. 20 pages, an average chapter,
=25,000; 200 pages=50,000; 400 pages=100,000; 600 pages=150,000;
800=200,000 words. Most books are between 50 and 100,000 words long.
Publishers estimate by pages, including the white space. A computer
count of 50,000 words may be 65,000 in publishers' terms. If you use a
computer word count note it on the front of the ms."

Google Answers: Generally accepted number of words per page