Characters getting injured or hurt, how much is too much?

[Prince of Spires]

Thinking on this, It's a bit like a magician doing tricks (stick with me...). With many magician tricks, the actual trick is in plain sight if you know where to look. However, the magician skillfully redirects your attention to something else (there's a lot of hand-waving, talking and pointing). And this causes you to miss the actual magic part to only see the trick.

So it is with writing. You can have a lot of stuff happen, but the reader sees what you're pointing at. If you're paying a lot of attention to an injury, then that's what the reader is going to see. If you're glossing over it and focussing on something else, then that's what a reader is going to see / remember. As with a magic trick, the higher the skill, the more you can get away with.

What is important here, is that you are consistent in your tone and your consequences. As someone mentioned, if you have a dark, gritty Game of Thrones world, then readers will expect your injuries to matter. Though even there G.R.R. Martin only sometimes does this. Jamie Lanister most certainly suffers from losing a hand, but Tyrion losing his nose in battle matters a lot less. While if you're going for a much lighter or heroic tale, then you can get away with a lot and gloss over most injuries to your heroes.

 

[Rexenm]

It’s like the GREY area. Give yourself into the weakness, and you give yourself to the pain.

 

[Fyri]

Plus, keep in mind, many people survive things that should have killed them. And some people, unfortunately, suffer the opposite.

Some real life people are walking around with plot armor.

 

[Orc Knight]

Sometimes plot armor can come as actual, literal armor. The web series A Practical Guide To Evil tended to have even the protagonists actually armor up and have if be useful. Their enemies too, though it's backfired on them at least once (in an amusing way).

I tend to also use that to actually armor my characters if they're the type who are going to end up on the battlefield. Of course, in the arms races, for every good armor, someone will have something to puncture or bypass it (as magic is fond of doing, or an anti material tank rifle, depending on setting). Of course not everyone can armor up and there's not always time, and as Prince said, got to pull a little magic.

 

[Nighty_Knight]

I would say as long as it’s believable and doesn’t make you roll your eyes all the time it’s fine. Between my different jobs and sports I have and currently compete in, I’ve had a mishmash of injuries. But seeing me now you wouldn’t realize it even though I’m 40. Some of those injuries were extremely painful and left me bedridden at the time (back injury) and others were a nuisance. I’ve seen plenty of others deal with some gruesome injuries shockingly well, so even with broken bones you can still function and even fight, but it will affect how you function at the time.

So if a character does get injured, as long as it accounts for something and is in the realm of being believable, I think it works.

 

[Fyri]

Sometimes plot armor can come as actual, literal armor. The web series A Practical Guide To Evil tended to have even the protagonists actually armor up and have if be useful. Their enemies too, though it's backfired on them at least once (in an amusing way).

I tend to also use that to actually armor my characters if they're the type who are going to end up on the battlefield. Of course, in the arms races, for every good armor, someone will have something to puncture or bypass it (as magic is fond of doing, or an anti material tank rifle, depending on setting). Of course not everyone can armor up and there's not always time, and as Prince said, got to pull a little magic.

I...don't think that's plot armor if it is a tool actually tangible and known to the characters. Getting really good/magical actual armor might be deus ex machina (that provides the armor). Hmmm. Idk.

 

[Orc Knight]

May be taking it a bit too literally, sure, but if Frodo can pull it off with mithril chain, why not? It's a sort of variation of being both literal armor he happened to have on while also being a plot armor.

 

[pmmg]

May be taking it a bit too literally, sure, but if Frodo can pull it off with mithril chain, why not? It's a sort of variation of being both literal armor he happened to have on while also being a plot armor.

I think the scene in LOTR where the Troll trusts the spear into him, and the armor saves him (and even the spider scene) did have a lot of people saying BS. The armor might not break, but his bones would. I wouldn't say its a great sin, but I do think of that scene at times and think he would be dead anyway.

One thing with Broken bones... The body goes into a protective state when a bone gets broken, kind of masking the pain so the person can still function. It does not last long, but even with a break, one can still attempt fight or flight without passing out from pain. Something like, this is really bad, and I need to run away...so I will pretend its not there so I can flee.

 

[Fyri]

Oh! Frodo with mithril armor? I wouldn't call that plot armor, really. More of a plot device! He was gifted that by--was it Galadriel? Been so long since I've read or watched... either way, he did have to do something specific to obtain the armor, and it was built into the worldbuilding too.

I feel like...plot armor is more... Something that they shouldn't have survived given the rules of their world and also which excludes them from others--If someone else were wearing the armor, would it have saved them the same way? If so, then it is less plot armor and more "that's just how the magic in mithril armor works". If not... then, hmm, I suppose you're right! It would function as literal and plot armor for Frodo! XD

 

[pmmg]

Well..the mithril armor does give the author a reason to say they lived through something they would not, so....plot armor.

Like i think I said above, give me a plausible reason, and I'll go with it. Sometimes, I wont even notice its plot armor at all.

And actually, the spider stab was more like plot anti-armor, cause, with the mithril, the stinger should not have gotten to him.

 

[Fyri]

Well..the mithril armor does give the author a reason to say they lived through something they would not, so....plot armor.

That... I don’t think we're talking about the same term? Like... with that definition, any armor is that. Firefighters are wearing a form of plot armor everyday because they have fire resistant jackets... Vaccines would also be plot armor in this definition...

I understand plot armor to be something that saves the character's life with no worldbuilding to support the survival/lack of injury. Having armor that was crafted in world to be uniquely very good at protecting someone... That's just armor...

 

[pmmg]

That... I don’t think we're talking about the same term? Like... with that definition, any armor is that. Firefighters are wearing a form of plot armor everyday because they have fire resistant jackets... Vaccines would also be plot armor in this definition...

I understand plot armor to be something that saves the character's life with no worldbuilding to support the survival/lack of injury. Having armor that was crafted in world to be uniquely very good at protecting someone... That's just armor...

I'd call it just anything to allows a character to survive (or avoid bad things) because they are too important to the plot if they don't.


I could say...The ogre stabbed him with the spear, and pierced through hitting nothing vital, or I could say, the Ogre stabbed him with the spear, but his Mithril armor could not be pierced, or I could say, the ogre stabbed him with the spear, but the spear broke at its shaft...

All of those would be plot armor, so long as there was no chance they character would die due to plot reasons.

If I wrote, the Ogre stabbed him with the spear, and he gasped and died, I guess he didn't have plot armor.

 

[Finchbearer]

Mithril is plot armour because Tolkien clearly thought ‘hmm how do I make this helpless lil halfling possibly survive and make it plausible? ah the mithril armour of course’. I mean obviously he had previously written in the mithril armour in The Hobbit, but it did conveniently help Frodo survive the otherwise unsurvivable.

 

[pmmg]

Generally speaking, when people say plot armor, they usually mean it in a bad way, but its not really bad. Its just a thing. Bad execution of it is bad.

 

[Fyri]

Y'all have me researching the term now and...I still don't think that's quite right.

It's not the best place of reference, but I'll stick with the same one as TV Tropes, I guess:

"Sometimes referred to as "Script Immunity" or a "Character Shield", Plot Armor is when a main character's life and health are safeguarded by the fact that he's the one person (or one of several) who can't be removed from the story. Therefore, whenever Bob is in a situation where he could be killed (or at the least very seriously injured), he comes out unharmed with no logical, In-Universe explanation."

But, pedantics. Still, I like the idea of vaccines being plot armor now.

 

[pmmg]

Wouldn't you expect a site dedicated to tropes, which by themselves, already have a bad connotation, would look for the badly executed definition of the word?


Oxford dictionary:

plot armor
noun
noun: plot armour; noun: plot armor

1. used to refer to the phenomenon in fiction whereby the main character is allowed to survive dangerous situations because they are needed for the plot to continue.

If I could suggest further, I would avoid places like TV Tropes in general. Or even looking at your story in terms of tropes and do not lists. They are the things that become the box, and try to keep you from escaping into your own. Better to not know they are even there.

 

[Fyri]

Wouldn't you expect a site dedicated to tropes, which by themselves, already have a bad connotation, would look for the badly executed definition of the word?


Oxford dictionary:

plot armor
noun
noun: plot armour; noun: plot armor

1. used to refer to the phenomenon in fiction whereby the main character is allowed to survive dangerous situations because they are needed for the plot to continue.
   
   "I do think that he can't die since the inevitable plot armor is far too thick"
   

Hmmm. I can see how it makes sense. If I didn't already have a different understanding of the term, I'd probably be more inclined to adopt this. But it still feels suspicious... Mostly due to the fact that it can be many other things that way too, or perhaps it more depends on the author's intention rather than the in-world situations that allow survival?

Idk, turning away from Frodo and mithril. In the Avenger films, did Loki survive the intense body thrashing by the Hulk due to plot armor or due to the fact that he is a god? I just feel like, if that is to be the true definition, it's too vague to be all that useful. Literally anything becomes plot armor and nothing is left to character choice or developments or worldbuilding.

 

[Prince of Spires]

If I could suggest further, I would avoid places like TV Tropes in general.

I actually like TV Tropes as a collection of tropes. Don't let it influence your writing too much. But it's a good source of actually finding out what counts as plot-armour. (for me, the TV Tropes definition and the Oxford dictionary definition are the same).

As for plot armor in general, I think it's more a tell of the writer having done something wrong in the setup. All writing is fictional. The writer has ultimate control over who lives and dies. Tolkien could have easily resolved Lord of the Rings with "a comet fell from the sky, breaking Barad-dur, destroying Mordor, and killing Sauron. And there was much rejoicing." If would have been a bad ending. But as a writer he could have done that.

So it goes with everything else. A writer always decides who survives a fight and who dies. The trick is to make the reader believe the outcome. To make them forget the man behind the curtain. A comment like "that character has too much plot armor" is just a tell of the writer having failed in making something believable to that specific reader. And that issue is usually in the setup. If you want your character able to survive some horrible injury, then show them capable of doing so before the fight. Give the reader a reason to believe you.

Small note, all readers are different. Some readers will go along with almost anything you have your characters do and survive, while others will cry foul at even the smallest of things. You can't win them all...

 

[Fyri]

If I could suggest further, I would avoid places like TV Tropes in general. Or even looking at your story in terms of tropes and do not lists. They are the things that become the box, and try to keep you from escaping into your own. Better to not know they are even there.

Sorry! I didn't notice this before! I'm just now coming out of a stupor from a really bad cold. XD

I do have to disagree with this though. Avoiding tropes and "do not" lists outright isn't necessarily helpful either. I don't think it is better to not know they are even there—I think it is good to know why they are there and how they work or don't work. Nothing is new under the sun, but cliches exist for a reason. They are good and effective, if not overdone and tiresome. The trick to cliches is not to avoid them at all costs, but rather, when you do write them, make them your own, personal, purposeful. Tropes can be useful to show you patterns you may not have noticed in, or lacking in, your writing. The danger or usefulness comes in how you use the information you find. How might you twist a pattern? Perhaps you learn about a trope and it helps you understand why you do something in your story and gives you inspiration on how to twist it to it even more unique or work in a stronger way.

Yes, it's good to write for yourself; carefree, free, and bold. Tropes may not be "rules" but it's like with grammar, it's good to know the rules so that you can break them effectively. Ignorance is bliss, and knowledge is power. Balance both.

"Do Not" lists are silly, sometimes, but they also do exist for a reason. What I think is important is the writer viewing these things. Just like with getting an editor or beta reader, YOU are in control of what you agree with and what you don't agree with. YOU decide what you like and don't like, what you want to include or delete.

 

[pmmg]

Well, I am not saying you do not have a good argument in favor of places like TV Tropes,You are free to disagree, of course. But I will stand by the comment. That place is just more internet fluff. Better to write as if the word Trope never existed.