Collaboration

[Josh2Write]

You dont need collaboration. You just need to write something and put it in the critique section.

I hate to say so, but when I see something asking for collaboration, what I hear is, 'I need someone who can do the work for something I want credit for'. It isn't gonna happen with me. I put in the work so I could write my own stories. You need to do the same. There are no shortcuts. It either a passion or it not. It okay if its not, maybe something else is really your thing.

I don't take credit for things I didn't do. I want a collaboration so me and the partner(s) can bounce ideas off each other, see how it sounds, help each other to make it better. You are very arrogant, and in that arrogance I assume you have yet to actually publish, (maybe even finish a novel? People like you are why collaboration is so hard to find because people like you are why no one can truly trust each other. You have the right to voice your opinions, but that's all they are.

I'm with skip.knox here. Story ideas are ten a penny. That doesn't mean all story ideas are appropriate for what I'm writing now, but they might be useful later... I've had quite a few story ideas over the years, and these days I write them down in the random text file. Like everything else in that file they will eventually get used somewhere in my writing. Some are used as the core of a story arc, others become parts of sub-plots and so on. The way I develop those ideas won't be the same as the way others would do, and that is in my view where our originality as authors comes in. It's what we do with those ideas that makes our writing unique to

Hold on. There may be a communication issue here.

In writing terms, collaboration usually means two or more people writing one story together. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.)

But what Josh2Write is describing sounds more like a workshopping group, or a discussion group.

Is it one of these two things?

I always saw ALL of it as collaboration. If for some strange reason I'm wrong, various others could have easily pointed that out to me much earlier instead of flying off the handle half-cocked.

In my mind: I have an idea. They also have an idea. I don't usually think of "there's an idea between us" because nowadays no one trusts each other so no one creates ideas together (because if one thinks of an idea the rest help but can claim credit and it can, but not always, create animosity from the one who originally came up with the idea). I don't want that. I want to help them. I want them to help me. We help each other. Whatever the project is, is a collaboration. I've never thought of it any other way, too trusting I guess.

With Pmmg's earlier comment about all I want is credit while others work, I have NEVER for once thought that. I simply want help to organize my chaos, and I figure if they're also working on a story I'll return the favor because it's the right honorable thing to do.

I tried workshops and some narcissistic jackass always takes the lead and tries to high jack the other stories, tries to directly influence the story in their wording and dialog it's not worth the stress of the probability that my idea going being morphed into what they want it to be, just so they can later say they helped when all they did was talk fancy yet say nothing.

 

[Josh2Write]

Yes, that is what it is. Two or more people writing a story together (and hopefully proving equal value to the project).

Why couldn't you just say that earlier?

 

[skip.knox]

This thread will simmer down when everyone talks about the question and leaves off talking about individuals.

If there's a question about terminology, why not do a little research first? Locate some definitions (there are always more than one) and offer those up. That way, everyone on the thread more readily sees what is meant. I look at the original post and see that while collaboration is in the subject line, the brief comment is more specific.

The post says the author wants someone they can tell their ideas to, to help critique. So that's a specific request for critiquing--not of actual writing but of ideas. That is followed by an offer for reciprocation, which is always welcome. Perhaps we can return to that point.

I can add this: Mythic Scribes offers an area for posting pieces of a story and requesting critiques from the community. There are some prerequisites to that, stated in a pinned post on that forum. There's also a forum that is specifically for brainstorming. If trust is an issue, you could perhaps pick a single idea, or even ideas from an unrelated project, and see what sort of responses you get. It may be that this is not the community for you; the only way to find out, imo, is to try it out. I get it that you're worried about your main project, but you could try something unrelated. Or even just read the many threads in that forum, to get a sense of how that would work.

 

[pmmg]

Well...Josh has not been here in a while. Given the manner in which he related, I don't think he will return.

Josh has an earlier post saying 'see, you had something lifted, and you don't trust'. I will answer that the event occurred on a totally different site, and many many long years ago. It did not happen here. And so, I reiterate, I am not aware of it ever occurring here.

Mileage may vary. We get new and drive by members here all the time. There is no telling what people may do. But there is also a core group here, who have been here for many years, and show up almost everyday. I would not be concerned posting a story for them. And in fact, I have many times.

For new users, there are sections of the site that are blocked to the general internet public and only signed in members can view it. Without having personal relationships, thats about the best any site is going to offer. MS itself is a place that has created a safe space for sharing and feedback. And there are other sites like us. Building trust is a matter of putting in the effort, making friends and getting to know ppl. You won't get that for free anywhere.

I personally, am uninterested in collaborating (and I was not confused on the meaning of that term) with anyone. I often do help critique stories and snippets that appear on the site. But I am very guarded about my energy. People I dont know are unlikely to get me to want to read their book. Just how it goes.

Looking at Likemystory.com, I see nothing in it that could promise more trust, and given their strong indication of AI usage, I have no interest in them.

 

[Josh2Write]

Well...Josh has not been here in a while. Given the manner in which he related, I don't think he will return.

Josh has an earlier post saying 'see, you had something lifted, and you don't trust'. I will answer that the event occurred on a totally different site, and many many long years ago. It did not happen here. And so, I reiterate, I am not aware of it ever occurring here.

Mileage may vary. We get new and drive by members here all the time. There is no telling what people may do. But there is also a core group here, who have been here for many years, and show up almost everyday. I would not be concerned posting a story for them. And in fact, I have many times.

For new users, there are sections of the site that are blocked to the general internet public and only signed in members can view it. Without having personal relationships, thats about the best any site is going to offer. MS itself is a place that has created a safe space for sharing and feedback. And there are other sites like us. Building trust is a matter of putting in the effort, making friends and getting to know ppl. You won't get that for free anywhere.

I personally, am uninterested in collaborating (and I was not confused on the meaning of that term) with anyone. I often do help critique stories and snippets that appear on the site. But I am very guarded about my energy. People I dont know are unlikely to get me to want to read their book. Just how it goes.

Looking at Likemystory.com, I see nothing in it that could promise more trust, and given their strong indication of AI usage, I have no interest in them.

It doesn't matter that it happened on a different site. Theft is theft.
Which is why I said in my earlier post "what's to stop a person from reading it here and then running off to quickly write it on another site while I'm here getting criticisms by you lot" (paraphrasing). The answer is nothing, nothing will stop someone from stealing an idea if they want it bad enough, and it is very arrogant for you all to tell people to just hand over their thoughts and ideas, especially when ALL OF YOU are looking for the next big idea to propel your own stories. You see something and you're gonna find some to add to your own.

And now with all this AI BS everyone who wants to steal ideas without working CAN just classify what they see as "just a prompt", and they cam legally run off with your ideas.
"Because you can't copyright an idea"
"No one wants your idea, they have their own"
"Who would steal an idea?"
"Ideas aren't worth anything."
"Just show us and we'll tell you if it's good or not."

These are all lies, because an idea that sticks out gets picked by anyone who wants it, to run off with it and make it their own. BS.
Whoever says there's no originality left is just saying that because they lack originality, and this gives them the ability to boost other people's ideas without having to feel an ounce of remorse.

That's why collaboration is so important, truth and truth and honor. But collaboration has fallen by the wayside in the name of greed, lies, and deceit.

 

[Josh2Write]

This thread will simmer down when everyone talks about the question and leaves off talking about individuals.

If there's a question about terminology, why not do a little research first? Locate some definitions (there are always more than one) and offer those up. That way, everyone on the thread more readily sees what is meant. I look at the original post and see that while collaboration is in the subject line, the brief comment is more specific.

The post says the author wants someone they can tell their ideas to, to help critique. So that's a specific request for critiquing--not of actual writing but of ideas. That is followed by an offer for reciprocation, which is always welcome. Perhaps we can return to that point.

I can add this: Mythic Scribes offers an area for posting pieces of a story and requesting critiques from the community. There are some prerequisites to that, stated in a pinned post on that forum. There's also a forum that is specifically for brainstorming. If trust is an issue, you could perhaps pick a single idea, or even ideas from an unrelated project, and see what sort of responses you get. It may be that this is not the community for you; the only way to find out, imo, is to try it out. I get it that you're worried about your main project, but you could try something unrelated. Or even just read the many threads in that forum, to get a sense of how that would work.

You all parrot each other, but none of you ever post anything of real story value for criticism, on here or otherwise.
Why?
Because truth is none of you trust each other. You all tell each other and others what to do to feel in control because personally you're all scared of being ripped off. Because you all know you have thoughts and ideas and stories worth something, but you also know someone, from here or outside, is gonna take them the SECOND you show them anything of real personal value. And if they know you put real work into it, it means that's less work for them. Yoink!

So why am I the odd one out? The problem, the troll, the delusional idiot, and whatever else you've all come to think of me? I am none of these things, what I am is frustrated by a system of greed and thievery.

None of you trust each other. Because deep down you all know thoughts, ideas, and stories really do have worth. And it scares you.

 

[Josh2Write]

That makes total sense — trust is honestly the hardest part of sharing unfinished work.
What’s helped me is starting small: exchanging short pieces, specific sections, or outlines first before sharing anything bigger. That way you build trust gradually instead of all at once.
I was recently invited to check out a project called likemystory.com that’s trying to create safer spaces for early-stage sharing and feedback, and it made me realise how much writers actually need environments built around trust, not just publishing.
Happy to exchange critique sometime if our genres overlap

What kinds of genres are you interested in?

 

[Prince of Spires]

The answer is nothing, nothing will stop someone from stealing an idea if they want it bad enough, and it is very arrogant for you all to tell people to just hand over their thoughts and ideas, especially when ALL OF YOU are looking for the next big idea to propel your own stories. You see something and you're gonna find some to add to your own.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not interested in your ideas in the sense that I need them for my own stories or am actively looking for ideas to propel my own stories forward. I already have too many ideas for novels stuck in my head as it is. I can easily count a dozen of them living there rent free, as well as scores of ideas for settings or snippets of ideas that aren't fully fledged stories yet. And with any story I write, as well as regular life stuff happening, I get at least one or two more.

At its core, The BIG IDEA simply doesn't exist. There is no single idea that is so amazing that anyone who picks it up will create a masterpiece that will sell millions. All ideas only work for specific people and at specific moments in time.

None of you trust each other. Because deep down you all know thoughts, ideas, and stories really do have worth. And it scares you.

I have posted plenty of stuff here on the site for others to comment on and review. I'm not afraid anyone will steal that text. And if they do, then I wish them all the best with it, since stealing a single chapter is useless. Besides, the hard work isn't actually writing the thing, it's getting people to buy it.

The only thing that makes me hesitate when I post something for review (and that happens each and every time) is that I fear my writing isn't good enough and that I waste people's time by asking them to review it. Putting yourself out there and asking people to comment on it is scary as hell. That isn't because I fear people taking my ideas and running with it, it's being criticized. And that's just my own insecurities.

As a side note, if you're so afraid of people stealing your idea because it's so amazing, what is to stop them from stealing it after you have published? There are plenty of people who can write a good book in a month or less. With self-publishing that means that your amazing idea can be copied within a month, by people with more marketing experience and budget than you. They can just drown out your book until everyone believes you copied them instead of the other way round.

 

[Josh2Write]

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not interested in your ideas in the sense that I need them for my own stories or am actively looking for ideas to propel my own stories forward. I already have too many ideas for novels stuck in my head as it is. I can easily count a dozen of them living there rent free, as well as scores of ideas for settings or snippets of ideas that aren't fully fledged stories yet. And with any story I write, as well as regular life stuff happening, I get at least one or two more.

At its core, The BIG IDEA simply doesn't exist. There is no single idea that is so amazing that anyone who picks it up will create a masterpiece that will sell millions. All ideas only work for specific people and at specific moments in time.


I have posted plenty of stuff here on the site for others to comment on and review. I'm not afraid anyone will steal that text. And if they do, then I wish them all the best with it, since stealing a single chapter is useless. Besides, the hard work isn't actually writing the thing, it's getting people to buy it.

The only thing that makes me hesitate when I post something for review (and that happens each and every time) is that I fear my writing isn't good enough and that I waste people's time by asking them to review it. Putting yourself out there and asking people to comment on it is scary as hell. That isn't because I fear people taking my ideas and running with it, it's being criticized. And that's just my own insecurities.

As a side note, if you're so afraid of people stealing your idea because it's so amazing, what is to stop them from stealing it after you have published? There are plenty of people who can write a good book in a month or less. With self-publishing that means that your amazing idea can be copied within a month, by people with more marketing experience and budget than you. They can just drown out your book until everyone believes you copied them instead of the other way round.

I didn't say my ideas, I said all ideas.

Every big movie, show, cartoon etc was a big idea.

Because once it's published it has foundation. If someone rips off Harry Potter we all KNOW it's Harry Potter. But before it was published anyone could have taken it if they had had access to it.

Until then keep is secret, keep it safe.

 

[Karlin]

Sometimes you need to take a risk in order to accomplish something. You want partners to help brainstorm, but are afraid of someone stealing your ideas? Ask family and friends first, people you trust, before going to strangers. Need help from other writers? build trust over time. Or hire an editor (yes, it costs money). Or just take a risk. It is a small one. Actually, I am curious as to what your idea was, and what it means that it was "stolen".

I think there are original ideas- but it depends on how you define original. Like I've mentioned elsewhere, time travel is not original (I can show an example from 1500 years ago). But having Leonardo da Vinci time travel to modern times? some level of orignality there. But think: how many possible permutations of times, people and places can you come up with for a time travel story? Perhaps not infinite, but quite a few.

Or dragons? What if Hannibaal had dragons instead of elephants? What if the Celts had dragons to fight the Romans wth? What if Tigleth Pilesar III was trading slaves for Chinese dragons? What if....? Millions of ideas, all original, but within limits. Did I mention the Mongol dragons?

 

[Josh2Write]

You all parrot each other, but none of you ever post anything of real story value for criticism, on here or otherwise.

I meant anything of real value as in you only post and speak very vague snippets, never enough that gives anything beyond. Because you know anything beyond can be taken.
"Ideas aren't worth anything", yet you hold onto them knowing they can be snatched away, while at the same time asking to see other's work and give critique, yet your own are safely guarded. And then when someone like me says I shall not divulge even a snippet of my pieces for anyone, here or otherwise, I am labeled just a troll.
Yet I speak the truth.
Because ideas do have value. And it feels horrible when they are taken or destroyed, especially by someone you thought you could trust. So now there is no trust, anywhere.
That is all I shall say. The matter is closed by knox. I shall speak on it no more.