Dilemma on Villain agenda

[Rullenzar]

So here's the problem. I'm creating a fantasy novel LOTR-esque, with lots of races/swordplay/mystery/gods/etc..
and I have a good list of characters and even my main Villain planned out. However, I don't want to sound cliche and be like "Oh we must stop him before he destroys the world".

Essentially my main characters are twins and the father of the twins has a twin himself that is taken over by an evil entity entirely. What this means is there is no saving him, he is dead and gone. My idea is that the evil entitys main goal is to rebuild their shattered world from eons ago. Their civilization existed in the air through magical forces and were blanketed in invisibility as to not draw attention to themselves from the ground people (humans/other races). They were referred to as gods in old texts but they themselves are a civilization just like any on the ground world they just possess special abilities (hence being called gods). Their elders decided they would live separate of any other civilizations and keep secret.

Their world was destroyed by powerfull members of their society during a war eons ago over conflicting beliefs in how their world should go on. Many were lost and those who survived now live upon ground world secluded by their magics just like in the heavens. The one responsible banished.

Through events the fathers brother (twin brother) awakens the power and subsequently falls victim to it. Now the entity wants to recreate his lost world in the skies in his image and under his rule. He believes ground world does not deserve to exist apart from them, that they should bow and serve their superiors. If he was to succeed in rebuilding his lost world many would die due to the enormous amount of energies it would take basically bringing on an apocalypse. The heros want to work to prevent this.

(Not decided how many of the superior beings exist still or if they are endangered) Either way the evil entity would bring about the apocalypse and form his army from the shadow realm (to be named ).

So again the question is, any ideas on what I could possibly do instead of the save the world crap.

 

[Caged Maiden]

Well, like in LOTR, the big bad guy was pretty unkillable... and therefore they had to take the ring to the volcano.... can you think of something like that? Maybe they need to close the gate the evil thing came from and once his energy stops feeding him he is limited by the body he's in. Then they can kill their uncle because it must be done.....

I'm sorry I don't understand the nuances of your world, but that's what I'd do.... something more subtle and special than a big old army storming the castle. It sounds like you are thinking something along those lines too. I use a glowing orb as a sort of gateway from the spirit world into my temples, and when they are destroyed, anything that was affected by the magic on the other side ceases to exist in the real world.

 

[ThinkerX]

Essentially my main characters are twins and the father of the twins has a twin himself that is taken over by an evil entity entirely. What this means is there is no saving him, he is dead and gone.

And there, I think, be the crux of your problem.

'taken over by an evil entity' (what, exactly makes this entity 'evil'? Throw in some positives. Tack in some problem the entity in its old incarnation refused to admit even existed or that only it could do anything about. Give it some reason other than sheer maliciousness for doing what it does)

and

'there is no saving him, he is dead and gone' (maybe not. maybe he is merely suppressed, instead of destroyed. Your evil spirit finds himself / itself thinking thoughts and even doing things that are completely outside its nature. Over time, the spirit eventually comes to doubt its original goals.

One idea I've toyed with in the past...yes, you have the great 'Dark Lord' whose shadow is reaching across the land. At the Dark Lords side, you have his chief lieutenant, much like the Lord of the Nazgul in LOTR. Now, usually, the course of action is the chief lieutanant battles the heroes across most of the books before getting killed. But, suppose, the chief lieutenant, the master strategist and right arm of the Dark Lord, were to get himself killed early on? BIG monkey wrench in Dark Lords grand plan. Underlings nowhere near ready to step into the dead lieutenants shoes.

 

[Anders Ämting]

So here's the problem. I'm creating a fantasy novel LOTR-esque, with lots of races/swordplay/mystery/gods/etc..
and I have a good list of characters and even my main Villain planned out. However, I don't want to sound cliche and be like "Oh we must stop him before he destroys the world".

Essentially my main characters are twins and the father of the twins has a twin himself that is taken over by an evil entity entirely. What this means is there is no saving him, he is dead and gone. My idea is that the evil entitys main goal is to rebuild their shattered world from eons ago. Their civilization existed in the air through magical forces and were blanketed in invisibility as to not draw attention to themselves from the ground people (humans/other races). They were referred to as gods in old texts but they themselves are a civilization just like any on the ground world they just possess special abilities (hence being called gods). Their elders decided they would live separate of any other civilizations and keep secret.

Their world was destroyed by powerfull members of their society during a war eons ago over conflicting beliefs in how their world should go on. Many were lost and those who survived now live upon ground world secluded by their magics just like in the heavens. The one responsible banished.

Through events the fathers brother (twin brother) awakens the power and subsequently falls victim to it. Now the entity wants to recreate his lost world in the skies in his image and under his rule. He believes ground world does not deserve to exist apart from them, that they should bow and serve their superiors. If he was to succeed in rebuilding his lost world many would die due to the enormous amount of energies it would take basically bringing on an apocalypse. The heros want to work to prevent this.

(Not decided how many of the superior beings exist still or if they are endangered) Either way the evil entity would bring about the apocalypse and form his army from the shadow realm (to be named ).

So again the question is, any ideas on what I could possibly do instead of the save the world crap.

Wait... So you have a villain who wants to destroy the world but you don't want the heroes to try to save the world, because that would be cliché?

Look, if the villain wants to end the world as they know it, then that's kinda the conflict of your story. Your heroes aren't exactly in a position to be picky about this. Of course they'll want to save the world - that's where they have all their stuff.

I'm not really sure what you are asking for here.

And there, I think, be the crux of your problem.

'taken over by an evil entity' (what, exactly makes this entity 'evil'? Throw in some positives. Tack in some problem the entity in its old incarnation refused to admit even existed or that only it could do anything about. Give it some reason other than sheer maliciousness for doing what it does)

I'm enterpreting his reasons to be a combo of "nostalgia/homesickness" and "I am a god! No way am I walking the earth alongside you ants!" The maliciousness is just how he rolls. Sounds like a pretty solid motivation to me.

I was going to point out the general fuzzyness of his plan, but honestly, that's probably a detail Rullenzar can work out as he goes along.

 

[Rullenzar]

At anders --> Pretty sure I never mentioned my heroes did not want to save the world. My dilemma was that I wanted suggestions on a different goal for my villain other then "I'm going to destroy the world." I know it probably isn't the best question seeing as how nobody knows the full details of my plot and story but I was hoping.

At others---> The reason the uncle is dead and gone because he took part in a ritual for selfish reasons to talk to see his wife in the spirit world (to be named). This process is very dangerous and the tools and information to do it were lost eons ago, destroyed by theiur elders to keep the nastiest of spirits at bay. Only those true of heart would be able to survive the journey there and back. Those who had any doubts of their abilities, overconfidence, etc... could fall prey to powerful spirits. By fall prey I mean tricked/held up/beaten as a way to take the living ones body. When the uncle entered he did not think he would come face to face with the spirit who destroyed their world long ago. Or rather he had come to him disguised as his beloved.

This spirit world is apart frrom the ground world dead zone. It is strictly for the god beings. Noble spirits experience a calm paradise type world reliving their most cherished memories. Those who lived in between extremes believe they are not dead and live out their spirit days as they did when they were alive. Those who caused pain and suffering and great deeds of evil live through torment day in and day out, most go insane, only the strongest can keep a part of them stable. Bet you can giess what my evil spirit falls under and through decades of torture he really doesn't have remorse/empathy or anything of that sort.

I'm rather mean to my characters and through plot twists the father believes he can save his brother but really can't. I give my characters false hope and he eventually dies in this task. The uncle essentially died and his spirit form stayed in the world of the dead. A day to us is an eternity in the spirit world. Even if by some chance his brother were to recreate the ritual and go in to the spirit world to rescue him the spirit themselves can not escape or leave unless they wish it. Depending on the spirits experience there they may not want to leave and because they have been there so long they may not even remember how to live. For instance if he was reunited with his dead wife it would be pretty hard to pull them apart again. Not to mention the only person who knew how the ritual to go there worked is the uncle. I offer very little chance of hope lol

To answer the other question the reason this entity is evil is because he's had plenty of time to be tortured by his past deeds. I say tortured because when one is only subject to one emotion for a very long time it is like brainwashing, all other emotions cease to exist.

So ya I guess i have things pretty planned out my only problem is that I didn't want to sound cliche with the save the world plot again and was trying to see if i could get some ideas flowing. I liked the unkillable idea presented in one of the replies. I just find most people are sick of the whole world is ending type plots and even knowing this I fell victim to the idea lol

 

[Mindfire]

Maybe instead of having your villain intent on destroying the world, you could instead have that happen as an unpleasant side effect? If the reason your villain is bent on world destruction is so that he can bring back the golden age of his culture, why not focus more on the resurrection bit and less on the destruction bit? Perhaps this villain sees himself not as the destroyer of worlds but as a savior figure. He's not "evil", he's bringing back a lost civilization which he thinks could make positive contributions to the world. It just so happens that in order for this to occur a few million people have to die, but there will always be casualties, right? And their lives were worthless anyway. The survivors will thank him when it's all over, because after all, its in their best interest for their ignorant culture to be replaced with a more enlightened one.

You see what I'm getting at? In fact, why not have the villain be a benevolent character and a genuinely nice guy? He doesn't hate the heroes, he sympathizes with them. And maybe he even feels some remorse for the people who'll have to die in order for his plan to go forward, but he still thinks its for the best. That kind of threat would put an interesting spin on the "save the world" story. Especially if the villain is apologetic. "I really am sorry about all this unpleasantness, but I assure you it's all in everyone's best interest. Now do stay out of the way, or I might have to kill you. But we can still be friends, right?"

 

[Anders Ämting]

At anders --> Pretty sure I never mentioned my heroes did not want to save the world.

Sure you did, right here:

I have a good list of characters and even my main Villain planned out. However, I don't want to sound cliche and be like "Oh we must stop him before he destroys the world".

And again, here:

So again the question is, any ideas on what I could possibly do instead of the save the world crap.

Neither of those refer to the villain or his goal, both of which you described in some detail. Rather, you were refering to the characters who are trying to stop him. (That is, the heroes.) And if the villain is trying to destroy the world, what else can they be expected to do?

My dilemma was that I wanted suggestions on a different goal for my villain other then "I'm going to destroy the world."

I thought you said he wanted to restore his homeland. Isn't that pretty reasonable?

 

[Rullenzar]

Maybe instead of having your villain intent on destroying the world, you could instead have that happen as an unpleasant side effect? If the reason your villain is bent on world destruction is so that he can bring back the golden age of his culture, why not focus more on the resurrection bit and less on the destruction bit? Perhaps this villain sees himself not as the destroyer of worlds but as a savior figure. He's not "evil", he's bringing back a lost civilization which he thinks could make positive contributions to the world. It just so happens that in order for this to occur a few million people have to die, but there will always be casualties, right? And their lives were worthless anyway. The survivors will thank him when it's all over, because after all, its in their best interest for their ignorant culture to be replaced with a more enlightened one.

You see what I'm getting at? In fact, why not have the villain be a benevolent character and a genuinely nice guy? He doesn't hate the heroes, he sympathizes with them. And maybe he even feels some remorse for the people who'll have to die in order for his plan to go forward, but he still thinks its for the best. That kind of threat would put an interesting spin on the "save the world" story. Especially if the villain is apologetic. "I really am sorry about all this unpleasantness, but I assure you it's all in everyone's best interest. Now do stay out of the way, or I might have to kill you. But we can still be friends, right?"

lol i like this, I'm going to see if i can do something like this. I won't make him merry poppins but ya I like this idea.

 

[Rullenzar]

Sure you did, right here:



And again, here:



Neither of those refer to the villain or his goal, both of which you described in some detail. Rather, you were refering to the characters who are trying to stop him. (That is, the heroes.) And if the villain is trying to destroy the world, what else can they be expected to do?



I thought you said he wanted to restore his homeland. Isn't that pretty reasonable?

lol touche, guess i lost myself while writing it. Yes restoring homeworld. A lot of it isn't set in stone so I've been playing around with different ideas about his goals. Looks like I did say it I just worded it wrong.

I've been playing around with an idea, bare with me.

My main villain is leader among 6-12 other council type figures. He has a following and a secret group of assassins or something of the sort he uses to collect information and take out targets. The council catches wind of this and uncovers a plot in which he plans to overthrow the balance of power in the council and take charge leading their civilization in the direction he believes they should be going. Long story short all hell breaks lose bringing an end to their world as they know it. The villain decides to manipulate his followers into believing the only way their world can be saved is to wipe its slate clean and start over.

Villain gets caught after the fact, after the damage has been done and is charged with crimes against his race. His sentence is carried out involving the eradication of all living blood relatives before him and the extraction of his soul to be sealed and locked away forever. His lifeless shell of a body is then burned to ashes and to add to his torture this act ensures he cannot pass over to join his family in death as the soul and body need to leave the world together. One thing I forgot to mention is when his soul was locked away if he managed to touch any being around him or close to him that beings soul would too follow his soul into the abyss. He manages to get his hands on the uncles wife.

Fast forward set amount of time my main characters father and remaining council members which include the uncle are charged with the secrecy and protection to prevent his soul from ever escaping. Uncle has been battling urges for some time about trying to save his wife but is forbidden because it would mean releasing the villain as well.

fast foreward uncle believes hes found a way to save his wife safely, attempt fails, wife dies, uncles soul is trapped as villain takes his body.

now hes out for revenge on the people who killed his family and to finish what he started.

Meanwhile, all that is backstory. The actual story is with my main characters twins, whom r the sons of the father. I won't get into where the sons are, why they aren't with the people, and how they came to be because it's too much to explain. The backstory will be leaked bit by bit throughout my novel.



Figured I'd try to give the villain a sympathy card. The reader thinks hes this baddass out to destroy the world and when they find out what actually happened to him they begin to feel sympathetic towards him. And also the fact that he believes he's the good guy like mindfire suggested because hes trying to rebuild his world for his people.

 

[ThinkerX]

At others---> The reason the uncle is dead and gone because he took part in a ritual for selfish reasons to talk to see his wife in the spirit world (to be named). This process is very dangerous and the tools and information to do it were lost eons ago, destroyed by theiur elders to keep the nastiest of spirits at bay. Only those true of heart would be able to survive the journey there and back. Those who had any doubts of their abilities, overconfidence, etc... could fall prey to powerful spirits. By fall prey I mean tricked/held up/beaten as a way to take the living ones body. When the uncle entered he did not think he would come face to face with the spirit who destroyed their world long ago. Or rather he had come to him disguised as his beloved.

Ok...so the uncles spirit or soul is gone, and this evil spirit is using the uncles body as a sort of 'puppet'.

I still see some potential here. Just how socially active was the uncle? Did he have a lot of friends - or even casual aquaintences? I can see situations here in which the 'uncle' comes into contact with people known to him in his former existence, and they treat him as the uncle - or at least not in a manner to which the evil spirit possessing the body expects. That happens enough times, it will inflict a kernal of doubt into the evil spirit and maybe provide a degree of false hope to the person trying to redeem the 'uncle'. The evil spirit, you see, becomes compelled to at least act like the 'uncle' at least some of the time because of how others treat him.

Unless he's a mad sorcerer living in a cave somewhere.

 

[Rullenzar]

Ok...so the uncles spirit or soul is gone, and this evil spirit is using the uncles body as a sort of 'puppet'.

I still see some potential here. Just how socially active was the uncle? Did he have a lot of friends - or even casual aquaintences? I can see situations here in which the 'uncle' comes into contact with people known to him in his former existence, and they treat him as the uncle - or at least not in a manner to which the evil spirit possessing the body expects. That happens enough times, it will inflict a kernal of doubt into the evil spirit and maybe provide a degree of false hope to the person trying to redeem the 'uncle'. The evil spirit, you see, becomes compelled to at least act like the 'uncle' at least some of the time because of how others treat him.

Unless he's a mad sorcerer living in a cave somewhere.

This whole concept is still under construction. Since I wrote this idea it has gone under the knife and been reworked from some of the feedback I've received. The post right before yours thinker is the revamped idea. Your idea can work though as only a few know the evil spirit has taken a new body. So it would be interesting to try and work something in there with my villain thinking he could start a new life as this person but then reality kicking in when he comes across someone who knows his true identity. He does still have the ability to take the form of someone he kills as his body is still capable of such feats. lol no he not a mad sorc living in a cave, he actually takes on the form of a king to hide in plain sight and move his goals forward.

 

[Devor]

Essentially my main characters are twins and the father of the twins has a twin himself that is taken over by an evil entity entirely. What this means is there is no saving him, he is dead and gone.

If your archvillain is the character's uncle, their father's twin, you need to play that up any way you can. That personal element will draw readers in to your characters more than anything else. It's their uncle doing all this evil stuff, and he looks exactly like their father. Are the characters confused by this for a moment? Are others? Do the characters think they can turn him around? Does the evil spirit know the uncle he's possessed, can it learn or be changed by experiencing the uncle's character? Does it play off that? Feed your character's hope, make that the emotional journey you focus on, the lens through which all the history and the epic plot is told, and you'll have a story that's worth reading.

For instance:

If he was to succeed in rebuilding his lost world many would die due to the enormous amount of energies it would take basically bringing on an apocalypse.

One way to avoid the "cliche" you're worried about: Well, make it happen, at least in part. To brainstorm a moment, the energies get released, but maybe they're directed upwards, blasting through sky and destroying a piece of the moon or something, which creates a lesser cataclysm but still radically changes the face of the planet and creates a wrecked and damaged civilization that they now still have to face.

And right before that happens, that's when the characters are closest to thinking they can save the uncle, and that shattered personal hope extends into the epic events surrounding it.

Oh, and right after the explosion, they realize that the spirit is really possessing their father, and their uncle has been pretending all along to spare their feelings.

 

[ThinkerX]

He does still have the ability to take the form of someone he kills as his body is still capable of such feats. lol no he not a mad sorc living in a cave, he actually takes on the form of a king to hide in plain sight and move his goals forward.

Problems piled atop problems for the villan then.

First off, being a king, even a minor king over a tiny dot on the map (and the realm in question is probably more than a mere dot) is a lot of work. The kings activities get scheduled pretty closely each day: this part of the day he meets with the council of advisors; this part of the day he does paperwork - or at least see's that the royal seal is appended to an ever growing stack of decrees, laws, and judgements; and another part of the day he hears petitioners - this in addition to feasts, hunts, and whatnot (and many of those will have overtones of politics and duty as well). He could schedule a couple hours or so of private time each day for some bogus official reason or other to give him a chance to work on his scheme to destroy/change the world...but that is likely to attract attention.

Second - Kings, even minor ones have slews of advisors and servants, and all of the astute underlings watch their master very carefully, as all too often their jobs and quite possibly their lives depend on it. If the evil spirit consistently trips up, they're going to start wondering about that as well. Granted, they probably won't know the truth of what is going on, but they'll know something is not right with the king.

I suppose the king could charm or suborne the more important functionaries and servants, but again, that will also attract attention: the sharp eyed ambassador (as a minor example) is very likely to notice the king and his advisors are behaving strangely - thats part of the job description. Same is true of what ever other nobles there are in the kingdom who come to the royal court only every now and again; 'Hey, remember when I dropped that bear during that hunt when we were younger - and what we did afterward?' The real king would know the answer to that, but the evil spirit would have a fair chance of giving an answer that would arose suspicion.

 

[Shockley]

The King is the natural choice, I think, since it appears to have the most power. If you're going for pure believability, however, it might be smart for him to take the form of someone who is incredibly powerful/influential but doesn't have the invisibility of the King. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head:

The individual in charge of intelligence/security for the monarch - they'd be expected to act mysteriously and do things that don't seem kosher on the surface. If you give the character a long record of good service *and* erratic behavior, the King might even be willing to support the villain's efforts until it's almost too late.

A court wizard. While they'd definitely have the King's ear and a lot of influence, they'd also be expected to spend a lot of time locked away in dungeons, traveling far afield and doing things that normal people would consider to be extremely suspicious.

The Queen. Let's say that you have developed multiple countries, and you've developed a system where they don't have one massive, uniform culture. For diplomatic reasons, it makes sense that the King would end up married to someone who was not from his own country. If an evil entity were to possess his wife, any strange (or even malevolent behavior) could be written off as her being 'foreign,' and a general lack of awareness of other cultures.

Obviously, it's your story and it will develop how you want. But these are some things that I think would make a bit more sense than the King.

 

[ThinkerX]

I have to agree with Shockley - a spymaster, court wizard, or even a foriegn born queen would work far better than the King.

However, the issue I raised up still stands even so: people who knew him in his former existence. 'Yeah, he was always a bit strange, but now he'd acting really weird even for him,' type stuff. And the more astute courtiers and servants *will* take note of that behaviour change because it is part of what they do. They might write it off to the stress from a particularly difficult spell or experiment, but they will still wonder about it.

 

[Shockley]

I’ve had a few more thoughts about potential alternatives:

1. What is the ultimate source of power? Finances. Even in a world of high magic and powerful gods, the day-to-day operations of a kingdom are still centered on taxation and money. So who would the savvy interloper looking to do the most damage in the shortest amount of time impersonate? The finance minister. Exorbitant tax rates, heavy tolls, etc. would be seen as natural actions by the real person, and could be very destructive to an economy that was centered around trade.

2. If the kingdom is particularly unstable, it might make sense for the entity to operate as a subversive or claimant to the throne. Any actions they take (even ones that are seen as destructive) could all be justified in their attempt to depose the established order. In fact, that could be a nice little reflection of their ultimate goal.

3. Religious leaders. If you’re writing about a particularly religious community, it wouldn’t be difficult for an evil source to come in as a claimed prophet or healer. The best part about this is that a figure like this has a very organic support base. It’s something they can build on their own, as opposed to the pre-established authority of a king.

Ultimately, I think it's important to remember that there are people on this forum who are saying that a spirit occupying a king would be too obvious to the people around him. If we think that, what does a centuries old evil spirit think? With that thought process, you could establish a lot about the malevolence. Is it intelligent? If intelligent, is it particularly smart? Does it plan ahead? Does it take into account all possibilities. A scenario where it takes the king really lets you flesh out its characteristics, and could be a beautiful piece of story-telling if done well.