Get rid of the dark lord!

[Penpilot]

I think you guys are projecting way too much on the readers of any given type of work. On the one hand, readers who like traditional good v. evil stories are naive, while on the other hand if you like GRRM's work you're relishing in cynicism. Both are nonsense, in my view. They're two different types of stories, both perfectly capable of being done well and being enjoyed by a wide variety of people (of whom very little can be said based solely upon their enjoyment of a particular work).

I think you're reading into my post something that I didn't intend. Just because someone likes simple black and white stories doesn't make them naive. My reference to naivety is in regards to how the book treats those who value things like honor a little too much, like Ned Stark. I've said this many times on this forum. There's room for all types of stories, and there's nothing wrong with preferring one type over another. My response was directed at Mythopoets questions regarding the characters and why people love them. It was never intended to be a comment on any person's character. Because a judgement like that would be silly. It'd be like calling someone boring because they like vanilla ice cream

I think people just need to acknowledge there are different tastes and that there is nothing wrong with that, rather than spending so much time validating their own choices with pretended objectivity. What is it a about the culture around things like books and gaming that compels people to try to turn subjective preferences into an objective reality?

My comments are not objective, nor were they intended to be. If they came off as a pretend objectivity then I should have stated as personal opinion more clearly. I think reading a book is like watching a movie. Sometimes you're in the mood for Die Hard. Other times you want Taxi Driver. Both are good and should be appreciated for what they are, not what we want them to be.

 

[Gryphos]

I don't personally think people should be shying away from black and white morality because, you know what, morality is black and white (I think at least). And so is the world. Yes, the world has grey in it, but it has a lot more black and white, more than people like to think. And thus, so are characters, and villains and heroes do exist. To use GoT as an example (a story praised for not having set heroes or villains), Joffrey is a villain for obvious reasons. So is Cersei for hating the poor. So are the Masters for their slave trading. The Hound is a villain for stealing money from that farmer. The same could be said of real life. Serial killers are villains, human traffickers are villains, governments are full of villains.

And there are also heroes. These are the people who are, you know, kind people. They don't need to save the world, they just need to be a decent human being, which villains aren't. To use GoT again: Ned Stark was a hero. The reason he died wasn't because he was kind, it was because he was honourable (kindness and honour don't have to go hand in hand and yes, honour is worthless). Danaerys is a heroine because she's freeing the slaves, a show of kindness. Margaery is a heroine because she gave toys to the children at the orphanage. And it's the same in real life. Someone who gives money to a beggar is a hero, someone who risks his own life to save someone else's is a hero, someone who campaigns against corruption and prejudice is a hero.

My general view is that the world is not made up of all different shades of grey. It's made up of spectrums of black and white. People at the very end of the 'black' part are 'dark lords' real or not, so it is perfectly realistic to have a dark lord be the main antagonist of a story because, whether you intend it or not, your antagonist is a dark lord.