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GOT - What's the big deal about it?

Discussion in 'Novels & Stories' started by Jessquoi, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. ThinkerX

    ThinkerX Myth Weaver

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    So Jessquoi -

    Will you be reading or watching? Or both?

    Let us know either way.
     
  2. Jessquoi

    Jessquoi Troubadour

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    I think I'd prefer to go with the source and read it rather than watch it.
     
    Xela likes this.
  3. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    Below I will be telling of events that happened towards the beginning, so there might be <<<<Season 1(book1)>>>>> Spoilers, be warned.
    I am answering before reading anyone elses replies.

    Sexist? I believe it shows a typical male dominated world with a few exceptions. Not unlike the real history of our planet.

    Nudity:It is an HBO developed show, so it would highight that which cannot be shown on tv.
    Rape: I only remember rape after a battle by the more barbaric clan, rape pillage and burn was common after conflict.

    The Queen manipulated herself and her son into power, she is one of the powerful females of the show. There is a woman that was nothing but a pawn to her brothers plans to return to be king, but she turned out to be the special one after he died from something he was suppose to be immune.
    The teen girl sees alot of death and destruction that her family and others that occurs related to the war, she escapes with help and sees how war has changed the country in the short time since she travelled to the Kings home.

    Spoiler season II:
    There is another female character that is basicaly a knight, she faces the laughter of a man's world, until they see her fight.

    It is great at showing life in a kingdom, the plotting that Kings Landing has at all levels, the back biting, the espionage, the secrets, the actions done related to family requirements, ie arranged marriages.
    Unlike other books, you never know if your favorite person will live or die in the next episodes.

    It is a well thought out story, that has very few pure black evil, and almost no pure as the new fallen snow good persons. Even the person you hate, has redeeming qualities, and even the beloved characters aren't saints.
    If this was a western, they all would wear gray hats, except for the bastard king, but I wonder if his gray hat isn't coming.
     
    Jessquoi likes this.
  4. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    I think there is some nude men, of course I am a man and tend to treat naked men like being in a Gym dressing room, they are there but don't notice them that much. I would say it is rare.

    That is true, kids of today are definately more mature then 20yrs ago, good or bad.

    Someone said "YA is a story told from the perspective of YA not an adult telling the story from a pov of YA,"
    I write stories that begin with YA, but they aren't necessarily YA reading material or they will progress into adults, and thus I don't think YA is the right genre for them. Coming of age, yes, YA genre not really.

    I might suggest if you like the first book, maybe rent the first dvd and see if you like what they did with the movie and also lets you decide if they go to far in the show.

    I plan on reading the books while waiting for season 3 to be released in 2014.

    I wonder if I will still love the characters described in the books more or less then the people playing them on the show.

    Might I suggest looking at this video or reaction to Red wedding:
    Game of thrones, the show draws this kind of emotion:
    Game of Thrones: Red Wedding Reactions Compilation - YouTube
    Maybe watch the reaction and see how involved in this show people are. I changed links from the one I used in the other GOT thread, that one had spoilers in it, this one is just fans reactions.
    "But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
    with no one there to hear.
    Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
    and not a soul to hear"(Rain of Castemere, Lyrics)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FF2fBRKxtk --only song no spoilers--
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2013
  5. kayd_mon

    kayd_mon Sage

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    Well, I just got a free preview of HBO, and have been using the on demand service to marathon season 2 and now season 3. I read all the (available) books prior to watching the first episode. For the most part, I like what they did with the show, changes and all. Of course I prefer the book if I had to choose, but the series is very well-done overall.

    Some characters were expertly cast (Cersei, for one is exactly how I pictured her, as was Ned, Rob, Jon, and Breanne), while others don't translate very well to the screen for me (the Cleganes, Bron, all of Qarth). Peter Dinklage isn't ugly enough to be exactly like Tyrion from the books, but wow is he a fantastic actor. He makes the show as much as his character makes the books.
     
  6. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    Just started reading book 1 last night on Kindle,
    read 35% of the 10% sampling in an hour.

    One question, I thought men of the NIghtwatch gave up all rank and privledge when they entered the watch?
    The part I read last night a lords son was telling veteran Nightwatchmen what to do.
     
  7. kayd_mon

    kayd_mon Sage

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    Commander Mormont made the appointment, against better judgement. The Lord Commander can do as he wishes.
     
  8. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    Special circumstances rank doesn't play well with the rank and file. I did notice the hesitancy in following some orders. Sad "they" ruined his nice sable cloak.
     
  9. Sandor

    Sandor Dreamer

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    Hi! :)

    ASOIAF is a fantasy story with a lot of real-life troubles, centered on post-medieval culture. The life of women wasn't that great in a lot of places.
    Violence and sex are part of everyday life: sex should be a huge part of our life, and with sex I don't mean "erotic stuff"...Sex is confrontation, experimentation, self-analysis and so on...

    Shit happens every day and what Martin does is something really different from the standard fantasy writers: it doesn't show a linear story, nor archetypes. It shows normal and TRUE people making tough decisions.
    Rape is not there to shock you...Is there because is part (so bad) of every day life.

    I've to quote the master: ''people complains about sex scenes and explicit-sexual content...and doesn't say ANYTHING when I describe war and massacres with the same detail." That's a really bad and limited thing.

    Sex, blood, love, hate, mother-father/son relations...small pictures of every day life and Martin seems to know 'em pretty well.


    Make yourself a favour and Jump into GoT: there's nothing more compelling. :) You may spend days and nights talkin' about plot twists as well as about characters choices and details. It's living, everchanging, coherent, mature and realistic. And still EPIC! :)

    Trust me and don't be sexist. It's an ethic mistake. ;)

    Cheers.


     
  10. T.Allen.Smith

    T.Allen.Smith Staff Moderator

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    I disagree. These stories are chock full of archetypes.
     
  11. Sandor

    Sandor Dreamer

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    Hi!

    Give me examples.
    Arcetypes, sometimes, are totally needed. It's like in other arts: when we're home, we aim to be "perfect writers" with "perfect manuals". Rules, no arcetypes, no adverbs...Then, in actual writing, things change.
    When you start playing an instrument, you often believe that tecnique, "platonic" originality and so on is what you really need: than, in actual playing, predictable notes is what you really need to make songs work.

    If we talk about "archetypes" meaning "predictable characters with common behaviours for the standards of fantasy", I'm sad but you're wrong.
    Even world is full of "archetypes", if for it we mean "the same events time after time". That's how life goes.

    The magic of Martin is to describe archetypes and then shock the readers with choices that, in the end, are very...human.
    It's like describing archetypes in a non-archetypical way.



    ---SPOILER---
    There's nothing "archetypical" in people throwing childs off the window, brothers and sister havin' an affair, friend-ish people betrayin' in a disgusting way during a marriage, killing-off characters thought as "main ones".

    In ASOIAF people act accordingly to human istincts and events go on in a very "believable" way. And that's because he uses archetypes of the best kind.

    Then, Martin is not a master of originality, but really, there's nothing deeper than that nowadays.
     
  12. Jessquoi

    Jessquoi Troubadour

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    Although I hate to say it, maybe archetypes would be hard to avoid in something so popular.
     
  13. T.Allen.Smith

    T.Allen.Smith Staff Moderator

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    That's not the meaning of archetype.

    Instead of offering up a character first and then linking an archetype (because there are many differing definitions & names for archetypes), I will point you towards one of my favorite books on archetypes. It's called "45 Master Characters". In a moment, let's consider a standard archetype discussed in that book.

    To give examples of archetypes you may not be familiar with, would be fruitless. There are other works covering archetypes and doing it well. This is the work I'm most familiar with, so I quote it often.

    I don't think we're both speaking from a shared understanding of the archetype concept. It seems we have differing opinions on what an archetype is, and the function they perform. Regardless, i'll try to gain common ground using a basic example. If we look at a classic example of archetype, say "The Femme Fatale", I think it's hard to miss it's use in GOT. GRRM certainly uses archetypes for characters. I can't think of a single POV that doesn't have an archetypal basis.

    EDIT: Don't misunderstand me Sandor, I'm a huge fan of the series and think GRRM is a sensational writer. Nonetheless, his use of archetypes is easily apparent to me. Further, I'd say the using archetypes, and using them for powerful effect, is the work of a brilliant author that cares about details and a varied character cast.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2013
  14. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    I do agree on the surface every character is a archtype (typical specimen: a typical, ideal, or classic example of something)
    but all characters are to a degree.

    How many archtypes take a evil character and show that they have a good side too? How many writers take a good archtype and show they have flaws, weaknesses, that gets them killed or imprisoned?

    IMHO I think GOT does a great job at destroying the character classes and makes them seem real, not just a archtype.

    As far as rape, extra-marital affairs, frivolous sex, it is the nature of humanity to procreate after a battle, it replenishes the battle fields of the future. Not every warrior rapes, but I bet in every man of war there is the drive to procreate.
    Also when every battle could be your last, the wedding promise made in peace is easily forgotten during war.

    I also believe, using Rome as the example, when the nobles aren't planning war, they get bored and find ways to amuse themselves with slaves, whores, and bored noble ladies.
     
  15. Kit

    Kit Maester

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    LOL- that's what I've been telling everybody- Peter Dinklage is way too good-looking to be Tyrion. They should have uglified him up a bit with makeup.
     
  16. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    I can't believe there would be anyone better to play Tyrion.
    With the awards he has won, I would say he was born to play this part. Not sure if the make up would make it better or just make it different.

    His new scar works, and the Hounds scars always worked.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  17. T.Allen.Smith

    T.Allen.Smith Staff Moderator

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    Though he still has a certain facial feature in the show....
     
  18. kayd_mon

    kayd_mon Sage

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    Haha I wondered how they would handle that, and they did just what I guessed they would.

    The Hound's scar is fine, but I envisioned both Cleganes to be more fierce looking. While the guy who plays Sandor does a fine job, he looks less fierce than I always pictured him in the book. Gregor - did a different actor play him in the first season? The guy playing him looks too lanky, but I swear he looked bigger in the Hand's tourney.
     
  19. Chessie

    Chessie Guest

    I also wondered what the rage was about and read the first book. Stopped right there, it just wasn't for me. I like all kinds of stories and if sex and violence are part of that for an understandable reason, I'm open to it. GOT was too brutal for me when it came to the child abuse. There were other things about the book that turned me off too, like rape and Martin's painstakingly slow pace. I don't own a tv so I've never watched the show and have no interest to. The story wasn't even "magical" to me, not at all what I think of with fantasy (except for at the very end). Its a story of war, drama, rape, child abuse, and some weird crap going down. I understand why the series is so popular: interesting characters, haunting setting, more weird crap going down, SEX. In the end, I was sorely disappointed in GOT.
     
  20. Jessquoi

    Jessquoi Troubadour

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    So there ARE people here who didn't like it. The other day I was at a party and I heard someone say to his friend something along the lines of "Man, you can't go wrong with Game of Thrones, there's tits, there's action, awesomeness, more tits..."
    Needless to say, that doesn't really sell it to me! Although I'm sure this guy was just a bit of a loser.
     
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