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GOT - What's the big deal about it?

Discussion in 'Novels & Stories' started by Jessquoi, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    Being young is no guarantee you want be harmed in GOT, in fact I think they had a child(under the age of 15) die or severely injured 4 or 5 shows in a row. Being a main character doesn't mean you will survive either. There are no red shirts in GOT, no one is immune to the blade.

    I guess the book tells of more rape then the show, I only remember Dany seeing the rape of the conquered, other then that I don't remember any other rape scenes. I think I am just completed the sample of the first book(which I bought and bought book 2 also.)
     
  2. Chessie

    Chessie Guest

    I'm the only person I know of that didn't like it! Its all right. I could have looked past a lot of the brutality if there had actually been something mysterious and wonderful about the story. On the positive, I enjoyed the depth of the characters and how everything was grey. I liked having to figure moral things out on my own and the tense feel to the world. Dany's story in particular kept me turning the pages (and Bran's). However, the incest troubled me and I was sick of women using their sexuality to get ahead. That really bothered me, actually, and I don't consider myself a feminist.

    The other day, I overheard a co-worker (who is a raging fan of the show), tell a customer that "Oh, GOT is great! Its--you know--Scifi and all that!" Sigh. Its fantasy, but it seems some people don't know the difference. Just like when a friend told me Twilight was immature but she read all the books and watched all the movies: People will follow a good story to the end...and GRRM writes a damn good story even if it is brutal.
     
  3. Xela

    Xela Scribe

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    Just wanted to post this thing I wrote about the books when asked for a spoiler-free summary from a Harry Potter die hard who was wondering if they'd like it a couple years ago. I posted this on a very different website (a professional video gaming forum) in the topic I made for the series that currently has 5,700 posts and 159,000 views.

    I then added this disclaimer for any puritanical or immature readers:


    Maybe it'll help you (or others here) decide if it's for them or not.
     
  4. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    There is that one formerly male character that doesn't have all his parts and makes all the other people very nervous. There is another with missing parts in season III sent to daddy as a present.
    Oh, wait, there is one without a tongue, not a main character though.
     
  5. ThinkerX

    ThinkerX Myth Weaver

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    You mean the 'action, and awsomeness' didn't outweigh the 'tits' bit of it for you? :)

    And you have yet to track down your own copy? :)
     
  6. Jessquoi

    Jessquoi Troubadour

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    'Action and awesomeness' sounds like a cheap American movie to me, so as I said, it didn't really sell it.
     
  7. Wolfram

    Wolfram Dreamer

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    I've watched the show from the beginning and really enjoy it. I think its great that a fantasy genre crossover into tv has been so successful. I'm almost done with book one, and I enjoy them. The grey character theme is very refreshing. But as I've followed along I've come to realize there is a place for this version of fantasy that closely mirrors medieval times/history, but as a writer I don't see myself writing those themes. It's a personal choice to use writing and reading fantasy to escape the terrible tragedies in life. I appreciate ASoIAF, but look at in differently than many other more traditional stories. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
     
  8. The Unseemly

    The Unseemly Troubadour

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    Personally, I think GoT fell for what I call the "Lovecraft phallacy", much like (unfortunately) many long series do. The first books were good - I did ocassionally get the feeling that the so-called "realism" was being ever so slightly overdone, as if Martin was trying to make it "realistic" for the sake of being different, rather than to pass on a message. But still, the first books were good, but then they became progressively worse.

    Around book three/four, the quality started landsliding for me. The masses of PoVs just got god damn annoying, and through this, the prose disjointed. Furthermore, the books became overlong, the "realism" became unrealistic and, in some cases, ridiculous, and really, book 4+ was just working off marketing and the fact that the remainder of the series had been successfu. Likewise, a Song of Ice and Fire turned from Semi-Fantasy to soap opera, which was disappointing to a fantasy reader like me.

    Hereby, on the overall, I agree with Chesterama... it was alright, and while I respect that many people praise the GoT series, I personally thought the books were really trying too hard with realism.
     
  9. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    The series seems to be increasing fantasy as the story progresses, is it the "realism" versus reality got too conflicted? (I am on book one, but have seen alot of season 3, so basing question more on show then book)
     
  10. ThinkerX

    ThinkerX Myth Weaver

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    Two things:

    First, when GRRM was doing the initial worldbuilding for this tale, he spent a LOT of time going back and forth between two possibilities: A world with no magic; OR a world with a little magic. Ultimately, he chose the second option. It's worth noting that while magic is present in GOT, its not really central to the plot. Hence, he could have done certain things differently - increased technology, maybe - and still have told much the same tale.

    Second, as several minor characters in the book (and maybe the television series) comment over and over again: Magic is a dormant force returning to life in this world.
     
  11. Chessie

    Chessie Guest

    That makes a lot of sense and actually, the story does give that vibe in the first book. The realism didn't put me off, what did was the excessive brutality that made no sense in the plot (what was the plot again?). I didn't mind all the characters but there was no direction and I felt lost while reading it. But what it comes down to is that I guess I just don't like light fantasy. I like my worlds heavy with magic, etc. A friend told me I'm losing out because dragons make such a comeback (I love dragons). But GRRM didn't keep me as a reader because he didn't invest me in the story. I do love his style though. Had the magic been in there from the beginning, I may have forgiven some things that turned me off. Plus, if I want to read sex, I'll go read erotica. I don't understand the graphic sex scenes in fantasy novels these days.
     
  12. The Unseemly

    The Unseemly Troubadour

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    My exact point on the forced realism/reality (whichever word someone prefers). Every time I flicked through those pages, I felt that GRRM was just trying too hard to make the novel seem "realistic", or, alternatively, wrote this to keep reader interest and sold it as "realistic". If you are too look at it critically, violence and sex are rarely (if ever) as graphic as the GoT series presents them, and here is to exact place where GoT's realism put me off - it just wasn't realistic, even though it was trying to be.
     
  13. Penpilot

    Penpilot Staff Article Team

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    There's really not all that much sex. There's more sexuality than sex. Relatively speaking, the text devoted to sex is minuscule. I just finished reading the 4th book and if memory serves, there was only one short sex scene in that book. There may be more but only one comes to mind.


    I don't know, "Rare" is a relative term. Depending on where you live graphic violence may be a everyday part of your life as well as rape. Not every place in our world is like the West. Look what's happening in Somalia, child soliders, rape, murder. Stuff happening there makes Game of Thrones look like a stroll on the beach.

    Then look at medieval history, which Game of Thrones is based on, it's full of messed things that people did. Vlad the Impaler, the historic Dracula, impaled people on long poles. The insertion point was where the sun don't shine. Tell me if that isn't graphic or violent.

    If the violence and sex aren't for you, that's fine, that's a legitimate complaint, but open your eyes and look around. The reality of violence and sex in the real word is easily much worse than anything portrayed in Game of Thrones.
     
  14. Mythopoet

    Mythopoet Auror

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    Personally, I don't understand the whole trend of "realistic" fantasy. Why on earth would I want my fantasy to be realistic? If I wanted realism, I'd read literary fiction which is so realistic that it's boring and mundane. Also, I prefer to read about people who are better than the people I meet everyday, not worse.
     
    Sheilawisz likes this.
  15. Chessie

    Chessie Guest

    Thank you, Mythopoet! My sentiments exactly. I have my theories on this but I'll hold, since I don't want to continue bashing GOT. It has its place, just like other fantasy has its place. But I completely agree with you.
     
  16. Penpilot

    Penpilot Staff Article Team

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    Just because you don't understand the trend doesn't mean it's automatically bad. Just because you don't want realistic fantasy doesn't mean everybody else should feel the same. If you think all literary fiction is boring and mundane, either you haven't been reading the right ones, or just can't appreciate the literary genre for what it is. Your in a writing forum, so I'm assuming you like to write. Part of being a writer is being able to see through another person's eyes and understanding why, even if you disagree with what they see.
     
  17. Mythopoet

    Mythopoet Auror

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    My apologies, I didn't meant to suggest that what I said above was universal truth, just my opinion (which is why I started with "personally"). One of my personal soap box issues is the idea among many people in the publishing industry that readers are some sort of blob creature that all like the same things. I would never intentionally suggest that people should feel about the stories the way I do. But I do often find my own tastes and opinions underrepresented so sometimes I like to stick my head up and remind others that people who think the way I do exist. :)
     
  18. The Unseemly

    The Unseemly Troubadour

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    This is sort of my point. It's not that I mind graphic sex and/or violence (indeed, if I did, then I'd probably mind and awful lot of today's fantasy), and it's not that I don't appreciate the fact that GoT doesn't draw attention to how cruel and unrelenting was and is, it's simply that I mind the way how it was presented, which, in my humble opinion, was done in a forced way.

    I do, however, second your point here, particularily about getting under someone else's skin and seeing and understanding why. (Ironically enough, this is exactly what writer's should achieve when developing their characters - that is, to make readers get under their skin and understand why a character made such and such decision, even if you disagree with it. (I'll add that the GoT series does this with a good degree of success)).
     
  19. Wolfram

    Wolfram Dreamer

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    There are certainly subgenre's of fantasy, just like Metal music for example. Some people love death metal but hate black metal, its simply a matter of finding your favorite subgenre, while appreciating the others for what they are. Not good or bad by any means, just by preference.
     
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