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How do you?
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MadMadys
Troubadour
I'm not sure exactly how you mean 'greater depth'.
In one way, you could be talking about a fleshed out world, multiple characters all with backstories, quests, drives, reasons, etc. which forms a rich tapestry of a world. Of course this sort of thing typically takes a lot of writing to properly achieve.
The other kind of depth would refer to meaning, I tend to imagine. There is the story in the worlds that are on the page but there is another story in the spaces or the words not used. How authors achieve this, sometimes, is through very careful use of diction and prose to achieve exactly the right reaction in the reader. For the writer, they must have a fully realized image of the character/place/plot or whatever else it may be in order to properly achieve this end.
Subtle hints are another tool in the latter example. Things that on one's first read through, they may not notice, however with a few more passes those things echo a much deeper tale than first appeared.
In either case, the author must know their story well in all aspects in order to achieve depth. It certainly doesn't all occur in the first draft or even in the first concept phase but evolves over a period of time.
In one way, you could be talking about a fleshed out world, multiple characters all with backstories, quests, drives, reasons, etc. which forms a rich tapestry of a world. Of course this sort of thing typically takes a lot of writing to properly achieve.
The other kind of depth would refer to meaning, I tend to imagine. There is the story in the worlds that are on the page but there is another story in the spaces or the words not used. How authors achieve this, sometimes, is through very careful use of diction and prose to achieve exactly the right reaction in the reader. For the writer, they must have a fully realized image of the character/place/plot or whatever else it may be in order to properly achieve this end.
Subtle hints are another tool in the latter example. Things that on one's first read through, they may not notice, however with a few more passes those things echo a much deeper tale than first appeared.
In either case, the author must know their story well in all aspects in order to achieve depth. It certainly doesn't all occur in the first draft or even in the first concept phase but evolves over a period of time.
Anders Ämting
Auror
Telling a very enjoyable story that a lot of people like is usually enough for me, so I don't usually think about it. Though, I suppose to comes down to what message you are trying to relay to your readers, how well you do it and how subtle you are.
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- #4
Thank you for the reply.
No, I don't mean that kind. I regard that as standard good writing.
By this do you mean foreshadowing? Is there something more?
No, I don't mean that kind. I regard that as standard good writing.
By this do you mean foreshadowing? Is there something more?
MadMadys
Troubadour
Nah, foreshadowing isn't really depth, as I see it. You're hinting at something that will (or may) happen which just means you know what you're doing as an author.
To better explain what I mean I'm going to do something I generally dislike and refer to something I've been writing. I have a older female lead and an aspect of her character is she has an eye-patch from an old injury. In no way does her having this directly add to the events that unfold for her and the reader could easily take it as just old war wounds. However I decided to add an aspect that possibly implies that her covered eye is in fact fine and, due to more to mental trauma than physical, she wears the patch anyway.
What does that add to the story? For me, I see it as another way to illustrate her inability to overcome her past to the point that it has become ingrained habit to her.
This is what I would consider depth to a story rather than just the simple descriptive kind.
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- #7
Addison
Auror
I find that themes and depth tend to come from an order and process. First it depends on what the them or depth is about, then you do great research and planning into it. You mull over it for a while, let it stew, come back, revise, then hide it. Tear it up, burn it or just ask someone to hide it in your room where you're least likely to find it. Then you start writing. As you already know the theme/depth you're going for it will appear automatically, through the subconscious, as you write.
Write first, worry later.
Write first, worry later.
wordwalker
Auror
I think what you're looking for may be its effect on the character.
The way I look at that is: let the story take a character from one place to a completely different one-- coward to hero, sheltered to survivor, bully to saint, something. And try to see how completely you can cover that: how many varied choices he has to make and events are pushing him along, filtered through but slowly changing his own nature; realism is leaving nothing out (especially, always deal with what would have been the situation's easy fixes, and the things that would ruin it all), drama is pushing hard to "spare them nothing."
When the reader puts down the book and says "yeah, I guess that's what it takes to be a hero," you've done your job.
The way I look at that is: let the story take a character from one place to a completely different one-- coward to hero, sheltered to survivor, bully to saint, something. And try to see how completely you can cover that: how many varied choices he has to make and events are pushing him along, filtered through but slowly changing his own nature; realism is leaving nothing out (especially, always deal with what would have been the situation's easy fixes, and the things that would ruin it all), drama is pushing hard to "spare them nothing."
When the reader puts down the book and says "yeah, I guess that's what it takes to be a hero," you've done your job.
Grand Lord BungleFic
Scribe
My decision to write a book was the result of a real world issue that I feel very strongly about. I spent a lot of time thinking about how to make an allegorical statement about it.
I'm no expert but from what I understand the best ideas often come that way -- find something in the real world that you find really interesting, or that you feel passionately about, or that makes you really angry.
I'm no expert but from what I understand the best ideas often come that way -- find something in the real world that you find really interesting, or that you feel passionately about, or that makes you really angry.
Nebuchadnezzar
Troubadour
I think that novels that are more than just an enjoyable read are those that have something to say beyond their story. They have some real-world theme or viewpoint they are trying to communicate or some philosophical axe that they want to grind. They are more than just a cool idea for a world plus some interesting heroes and a quest. Some examples that come to my mind:
-- Frank Herbert's Dune series is an enjoyable read, but more than that it is an exploration of Mr. Herbert's ideas about ecology as well as his thoughts on what it would mean to be a messiah. He also reflects on the consequences to humanity if it was possible for some people to foresee the future.
Robert Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land used the character of a human raised by Martians to make commentary on contemporary human culture, practices and taboos. It was an enormously influential book even outside the field of sci-fi fandom.
Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun is set in a very cool fantasy world (a far future Earth) though it may not qualify as "an enjoyable read"... It is ultimately a vehicle to explore Wolfe's thoughts on all kinds of topics, but a key theme for me was the nature of identity and whether memories make us who we are.
Now how does another author do something similar? Beats me. I'd think step 1 is that you need to have something to say.
-- Frank Herbert's Dune series is an enjoyable read, but more than that it is an exploration of Mr. Herbert's ideas about ecology as well as his thoughts on what it would mean to be a messiah. He also reflects on the consequences to humanity if it was possible for some people to foresee the future.
Robert Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land used the character of a human raised by Martians to make commentary on contemporary human culture, practices and taboos. It was an enormously influential book even outside the field of sci-fi fandom.
Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun is set in a very cool fantasy world (a far future Earth) though it may not qualify as "an enjoyable read"... It is ultimately a vehicle to explore Wolfe's thoughts on all kinds of topics, but a key theme for me was the nature of identity and whether memories make us who we are.
Now how does another author do something similar? Beats me. I'd think step 1 is that you need to have something to say.